Orioles 9, Twins 4: Bad Start, Bad Defense, and Bad Luck

Sending Bundy back out there after he gave up six runs: classic Baldelli move. Bundy then giving up three more runs: classic Baldelli result.

Rough one from Bundy. He was the starter signing I was the iffiest about in the offseason, and right now he's not looking up to the challenge. With Gray coming back, and everyone else pitching well, he looks like a candidate to move out of the rotation if he can't get it together quickly. Yes, there were some poor defensive plays and a bit of bad luck, but Bundy also pitched poorly and was very hittable. That's on him.

Tough night for Celestino. I have some sympathy for him on the fly ball he couldn't run in on; he didn't get a good read on it and it wouldn't have been an easy play even if he had...but it didn't help his pitcher much to miss that one. And then he rockets a ball that should have been an easy hit and it tags Sanchez (who must have felt like he had extra baseball attraction spray on or something).

Correa's HR was a beauty, though! And I'm a fan of Moran and his changeup, so I'm happy to see him back up. He's going to drive some people nuts when he's wild, but that change is a weapon that will make hitters look silly, and it's so fun.

Go get 'em tomorrow, win the series with 3 out of 4 and move on happy.

In another post I commented that it was to early to anoint this staff tonight was proof. 

We’ve gotta think about Bundy moving to the ‘pen once Ober/Gray are back. I’m not trying to be all doom and gloom, but his stuff isn’t all that good (sub-90 mph fastball), and he’s been leaving a ton of pitches over the plate that he’d just been lucky to avoid more hard hit balls. Last year he had a 3.32 ERA through 3 starts before it had ballooned to 6.06 by the end of the year.

No harm in moving him to the bullpen and allowing Winder to continue working as a starter. Bundy can come in and get some mop up work and slide back into the rotation if two of our other starters get injured. 

Winnable game. The team showed real character. But, Baldelli's will o' the wisp foolishness took the wind out of the sails of the team. Why would he slot another inning for a pitcher (Bundy) whose day it clearly was not? It made no logical sense. It was delusional, pernicious, jejeune. If you lack the requisite common sense to know when a pitcher is done for the day - you shouldn't be an MLB Manager. They admirably fight back from an 0-6 hole in the very next frame, and then the fey manager instantly douses the team spirit and kills the momentum with a vain hope.

8 minutes ago, alexthegreat said:

A champion gets back up whenever something knocks him on his ass.

Get em tomorrow.

This mindset.

Thinking optimistically this is early may,  I'd rather test the waters on a Bundy bounce back inning today and get burned than in August or September. Remember he was dealing until the 3rd inning, then got rattled. It wasn't like in Tampa Bay where he was screwed from the first 10 pitches. In the grand scheme of things, this early in the season I'm willing to overlook two bad starts if he stabilizes back out to a serviceable pitcher. I don't expect to see 0.59 ERA anymore but 3.50-4.50 is feasible. I can't overlook a third however, I don't want another Shoemaker situation.

Regardless once Gray comes back I think he's destined for a long relief role just out of necessity. 

The title of this post says it all.

56 minutes ago, singlesoverwalks said:

Sending Bundy back out there after he gave up six runs: classic Baldelli move. Bundy then giving up three more runs: classic Baldelli result.

I was saying exactly the same thing.  I sure don't understand Rocco's thinking as it was quite evident that Bundy was spent after allowing those 6 runs.  You could make the argument Bundy deserved better as Miranda should've caught that line drive that for the 3rd out and made a poor throw behind Bundy the following inning.  Saying that, Bundy's lack of command---back to back walks, imo, should've resulted in getting hooked, but Rocco did nothing.  Nothing.

Team was, I guess, due for a clunker, but this 2nd consecutive BAD start by Bundy is making my thinking flashback to the quick (predictable) regression Martin Perez had a few years ago.  Hopefully, Gray will be back very soon as well as Ober.

Two starters (Correa and Urshela) in the lineup today playing the position that they excel at and are our best defenders. The rest out of position or not our starter (Celestino for Buxton in center, and it didn't go well). And the worst defensive catcher at the plate, today, too. I caught a lot of grief yesterday for questioning playing Miranda at his most unfamiliar position at first, even as the need presented there with Sano out. I do think it affects a young player at the plate to deal with the first callup and out of position (but hey.... Sano has made us used to .077 at first for production).  Flexibility is fine, but it can really eat a teams defense up (and Bundy didn't even try for balls hit toward him.... not a fielding pitcher ala Joe Ryan or Jose Berrios). Brutal. Maybe flexibility is good, but not 6 of the 9 positions (and Sanchez behind the plate) in one game. 

Leaving Bundy ("......he would face an Orioles offense that had a team OPS of .609 coming into this game, the third-worst in the majors......") in for the 4th, after the Twins made a game of his debacle......... not my favorite move. Now you just give the pen the game in the 4th behind by 5 instead of 2. Best to win today and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

We were due, and I don't mind losing one here and there. I hope Bundy bounces back though.

First time I have ever seen a guy get on base to extend the rally by being hit by the pitch, and then kill it by getting hit by the batted ball, a scorcher, for the third out. Ouch. And Sanchez gets hit by more errant balls behind the plate.That was pretty damn weird. I bet he is sore.

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Can something be both delusional and jejune? I'm dazed and perplexed. Befuddled, even.

1 hour ago, GKuehl said:

We’ve gotta think about Bundy moving to the ‘pen once Ober/Gray are back. I’m not trying to be all doom and gloom, but his stuff isn’t all that good (sub-90 mph fastball), and he’s been leaving a ton of pitches over the plate that he’d just been lucky to avoid more hard hit balls. Last year he had a 3.32 ERA through 3 starts before it had ballooned to 6.06 by the end of the year.

No harm in moving him to the bullpen and allowing Winder to continue working as a starter. Bundy can come in and get some mop up work and slide back into the rotation if two of our other starters get injured. 

I know he's due $5m, but I just don't see Bundy as a viable starter or reliever for that matter. He may have been something special at one time but that ship has sailed. He has AAAA stuff at best. Signing Bundy? Ok I guess, but he was the one I was least excited about. The mistake we have no excuse to make is the same mistake we made last year. Not knowing when to cut bait. Bundy is pretty much responsible for two losses now and I've seen enough. What role can that pitcher we saw tonight play on a winning team?

4 minutes ago, wabene said:

I know he's due $5m, but I just don't see Bundy as a viable starter or reliever for that matter. He may have been something special at one time but that ship has sailed. He has AAAA stuff at best. Signing Bundy? Ok I guess, but he was the one I was least excited about. The mistake we have no excuse to make is the same mistake we made last year. Not knowing when to cut bait. Bundy is pretty much responsible for two losses now and I've seen enough. What role can that pitcher we saw tonight play on a winning team?

The Mets dumped Robinson Cano even though they still have to pay his $30M contract.  The Twins should follow their example and drop Bundy.  His contract isn't that hard to write off as a bad investment.

3 hours ago, h2oface said:

Two starters (Correa and Urshela) in the lineup today playing the position that they excel at and are our best defenders. The rest out of position or not our starter (Celestino for Buxton in center, and it didn't go well). And the worst defensive catcher at the plate, today, too. I caught a lot of grief yesterday for questioning playing Miranda at his most unfamiliar position at first, even as the need presented there with Sano out. I do think it affects a young player at the plate to deal with the first callup and out of position (but hey.... Sano has made us used to .077 at first for production).  Flexibility is fine, but it can really eat a teams defense up (and Bundy didn't even try for balls hit toward him.... not a fielding pitcher ala Joe Ryan or Jose Berrios). Brutal. Maybe flexibility is good, but not 6 of the 9 positions (and Sanchez behind the plate) in one game. 

Leaving Bundy ("......he would face an Orioles offense that had a team OPS of .609 coming into this game, the third-worst in the majors......") in for the 4th, after the Twins made a game of his debacle......... not my favorite move. Now you just give the pen the game in the 4th behind by 5 instead of 2. Best to win today and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I tried saying this last year and got chewed out, albeit somewhat mildly.  Last year only Donaldson, Simmons, and Buxton (and we all know how many games he played) played the same (and only) position they are designed to play.  Even Sano saw a day or two at 3rd.  Now, having said that, I don't count catchers in this mix, although if they play 1st, as Garver was known to do once in a while, or DH, that is playing out of position as well.  This year the names have changed, but the positions haven't.  This is just who Rocco was, is, and always will be.  The same for the pitching changes (or lack thereof?).  We overcame him in '19 with 307 homeruns.  We couldn't overcome him last year, and the jury is out right now for '22.  He believes that everyone needs to play as regularly as possible, and he will find a spot for them somewhere.  I have said forever that you need to find where a player excels, or at least is as good as he can be, and put him there.  Yes, I know, that means regular players and reserves; not exactly the thinking today it appears.  I have also been a proponent of starters and relievers playing their roles, and some of you might remember where that has gotten me as well (you may be the ones who tried educating me).    

Regulars and reserves, starters and relievers.  Put players where they play the best, and find a lineup where hitters strengths and weaknesses are where you want them.  Too old fashioned?  Apparently.  Instead we get a musical chairs lineup in the field, at the plate, and on the mound.  Rocco's computer likes it that way.  Personally, it makes my head spin. I hope we have a mix of players who can make it work.  I will be the first to congratulate them if they do.  

Bundy has a history of being pretty horrible at Camden Yards. With all the analytics and shifting et al, it would seem prudent to not let the guy take the mound for your team there. Someone is not paying attention?

"Returning to Baltimore for the second time as an opposing player, the veteran right-hander was tagged for a career-high nine runs on 11 hits and two walks in 3 2/3 innings as Minnesota saw its four-game win streak snapped in a 9-4 defeat at Camden Yards. A bright spot in the Twins' surprising rotation success early this season, Bundy watched his ERA balloon from 2.95 to 5.76 in the outing opposite O's righty Kyle Bradish -- the key return piece in the deal that sent Bundy to the Angels in 2019.

“One of the ironies of the baseball season,” said Orioles manager Brandon Hyde of the matchup.

Another irony: Bundy’s implosion came against an Orioles team dealing with a host of offensive issues ......

But as much as any active hurler, Bundy knows what a nightmare Oriole Park can be for pitchers. An Orioles rotation stalwart from 2016-19, Bundy struggled for years to limit damage and prevent extra-base hits at his home office, before landing with the Angels via trade and now Minnesota on a prove-it free agent deal last winter. Wednesday marked his 60th start at Camden Yards, second only to former teammate Kevin Gausman among active players.

The home runs he surrendered to Cedric Mullins and Ramón Urías during Baltimore’s decisive six-run third inning were the 64th and 65th he'd given up at Camden Yards, the most among active pitchers.

Said Bundy: “It was horrible tonight. That’s about as simple as it gets.”"

Only 3 pitchers used.  Great job by Coulombe and Moran.  Bad start didn't burn up the bullpen 

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

Bundy has a history of being pretty horrible at Camden Yards. With all the analytics and shifting et al, it would seem prudent to not let the guy take the mound for your team there. Someone is not paying attention?

 

"Returning to Baltimore for the second time as an opposing player, the veteran right-hander was tagged for a career-high nine runs on 11 hits and two walks in 3 2/3 innings as Minnesota saw its four-game win streak snapped in a 9-4 defeat at Camden Yards. A bright spot in the Twins' surprising rotation success early this season, Bundy watched his ERA balloon from 2.95 to 5.76 in the outing opposite O's righty Kyle Bradish -- the key return piece in the deal that sent Bundy to the Angels in 2019.

“One of the ironies of the baseball season,” said Orioles manager Brandon Hyde of the matchup.

Another irony: Bundy’s implosion came against an Orioles team dealing with a host of offensive issues ......

But as much as any active hurler, Bundy knows what a nightmare Oriole Park can be for pitchers. An Orioles rotation stalwart from 2016-19, Bundy struggled for years to limit damage and prevent extra-base hits at his home office, before landing with the Angels via trade and now Minnesota on a prove-it free agent deal last winter. Wednesday marked his 60th start at Camden Yards, second only to former teammate Kevin Gausman among active players.

The home runs he surrendered to Cedric Mullins and Ramón Urías during Baltimore’s decisive six-run third inning were the 64th and 65th he'd given up at Camden Yards, the most among active pitchers.

Said Bundy: “It was horrible tonight. That’s about as simple as it gets.”"

To be fair, with the changes to the ballpark last year it should be less homer-prone and more pitcher friendly. But Bundy was still clearly getting rocked and needed a much shorter leash today.

Where is Buxton

I like seeing celestino gets a playing time in as bad as come around but nobody matches Buxton and I can't believe it's time to give him a rest

To me it looks like Dylan Bundy is still struggling internally with being a power pitcher vs. being a crafty off-speed pitcher. The hard contact seemed to be mostly on his low-90's heater, not on his curve, slider, change, etc. 

He still needs to buy into being a crafty veteran, not the young fireballer. I'd like to see his fastball usage go down to about 30 percent. Curves, sliders and change up's, dude... Hopefully the position players will play a little better defense.

10 hours ago, Monticore said:

Winnable game. The team showed real character. But, Baldelli's will o' the wisp foolishness took the wind out of the sails of the team. Why would he slot another inning for a pitcher (Bundy) whose day it clearly was not? It made no logical sense. It was delusional, pernicious, jejeune. If you lack the requisite common sense to know when a pitcher is done for the day - you shouldn't be an MLB Manager. They admirably fight back from an 0-6 hole in the very next frame, and then the fey manager instantly douses the team spirit and kills the momentum with a vain hope.

Personally, I think the one who dashed hopes and killed spirits was Bundy. Baldelli probably should have pulled him, but ultimately the guy on the mound has to get hitters out.