Official Twins Winter Meetings Day 3 Thread

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 6:04 PM, akmanak said:

It is not surprising at how "impact pitchers" are not wanting to come here since they know they probably would be just rentals. The Twins have a tendency to simply dump off players at an alarming rate. Players have no stability with this team and the owners are cheap.

I have read the whole we have 101 wins...yah well we had a really really weak central division and we got slaughtered again in the playoffs.

This team is going to be medicore up until the Pohlads sell the team. By medicore I mean doing zero in the playoffs due to lack of pitching.

 

I'd like to see you back up the Twins having tendency to dump players at an alarming rate and show some examples of players who think they have no stability with the team.

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 3:27 PM, Dome Dogg said:

 

I don't want to hear about market size, players like Yasmani Grandal will sign with the Brewers if the money is right. Is it the climate? Players don't need to live hear year-round to play for the Twins, and summers here are just as good if not better than New York or Boston. 

 

 

the flaw in this argument, in my opinion, is in assuming that the hundreds of players in MLB are exactly the same and want the same things.  what works for one player doesn't always work for another

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 6:31 PM, flags said:

the flaw in this argument, in my opinion, is in assuming that the hundreds of players in MLB are exactly the same and want the same things.  what works for one player doesn't always work for another

 

It is true, different players have different needs/wants. But we are looking at a pattern of over two decades of not signing big time free agents (from a cost perspective). It isn't a one off thing at that point, it's an organizational philosophy.

 

It could still change this off season, there are still two really good pitchers left....

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 6:15 PM, Tomj14 said:

You mean like all that parity they have in the NFL, NBA and NHL?  There has been more different champions in MLB than any other sport (almost combined)

What about winning % and playoff appearances? I have no idea, just feel like MLB probably has a larger discrepancy there. I mean the Marlins have won a couple of championships over the last 20 years, but they have also been the worst team in baseball for half of the last 20 years (I didn't actually look up their records, just speaking generally).

 

The goal is always a championship, but in MLB there are 3 or 4 teams (NYY, Boston, LAD, LAA) who have championship or bust expectations every year because they can lap the field in spending. In the other 3 sports windows open and close and teams have championship or bust expectations for short periods (Golden State for example), but the cap typically makes that a cyclical thing (Patriots are really screwing up the NFL these days). Boston, NYY, LAA, and LAD will always be able to say their season is a failure if they don't win a championship, but never have to risk blowing it up to try again (like Miami or KC or soon Cleveland) after they make a run because of the difference in their resources. With the data and analytics surge those 4 teams should be expected to have championship or bust expectations every year as they are now able to do Cole signings while being better at avoiding Ellsbury signings. With all the teams understanding what it takes to win at a much deeper level now the ability to go get the elite guys while also building strong farm systems to supplement those signings only a select few teams can make there is no excuse for them not dominating every year. My fear, and then hope, is that this gets out of control in the next decade and the other 26 teams do something to even the playing field a little.

 

And, yes, I realize the Angels have been garbage lately, but they are now getting out from under their bad deals and are poised to jump right back into the fight. Can you imagine what signing Trout to that deal would do to the Twins, Rays, As, Os, Indians, etc. etc. etc. rosters? The Twins would be holding tryouts for Twins Daily posters to make the team cuz they couldn't afford any real players. With the knowledge gap shrinking so drastically in MLB the extra money is going to mean more and more.

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 11:52 AM, Twins1964 said:

As long as MLB operates the way it does unlike the NBA, NFL and NHL where salary caps are in place, only a select few big market teams will continue to dominate.To whine is based on feelings not facts.

Over the long-term, you're right. In this particular off-season, the Twins positioned themselves to be able to compete with the big boys and upgrade their pitching. They promised to do so. So far, they have failed. And their options are dwindling. If they come up empty, it's on Falvine and not MLB's system.

Eddie trade talks starting...

 

 

Whatever players the Twins are considering through free agency, trade or draft, there has to be a test conducted before any are chosen. Each potential player has to be connected to heart rate, blood pressure and brain activity monitors. Then that player is to be shown a uniform of the New York Yankees. If the monitors indicate any type of fear or anxiety in response to seeing the Yankee uniform, the Twins should have no more interest in that player. We need players that don't turn into jello when playing the Yankees. 

I'm intrigued by Eddie for Alcantara from the Marlins, but I would have done that instead of signing Pineda. A rotation of Berrios, Odorizzi, Alcantara and Pineda doesn't do it for me in a play-off series.

Twins talking Dellin Betances...

 

 

"I don't want to hear about market size, players like Yasmani Grandal will sign with the Brewers if the money is right."

 

I've got it! The Brewers, what does that bring to mind? BEER! It's like a subliminal message. Who doesn't just completely like beer? NOBODY. Goodbye Minnesota Twins, hello Minnesota Brewmasters. Take that Sconnie!

At this point Betances, would be a big arm (health questionable) at a relatively reasonable price.  Value wise, the twins have secured two of the more reasonable deals in Odorizzi and Pineda.  

 

Pineda 2 for 20 million   2019 ERA 4.01 pitched much better to end year

Gausman 1 for 9 million  2019  ERA 5.72 granted for crap team, could show some improvement but no where near Pineda. 

 

Value for pitchers will come down in a month, but right now a lot more teams have money to spend. 

 

Best plan moving forward, trade for starters and/or trade for solid position players while taking on salary.  Build up the bull pen, and Bettances is the best arm to do that with. 

Goes without saying, but Betances is an absolute stud.

He did however only pitch 0.2 innings last year due to lat and shoulder injuries. His season then ended for good after those 0.2 innings with a partially torn achilles.

 

 

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 6:15 PM, Tomj14 said:

You mean like all that parity they have in the NFL, NBA and NHL?  There has been more different champions in MLB than any other sport (almost combined)

 

It's an interesting argument, but couldn't the lack of championship parity also be due to the nature of the game of baseball vs. the other major sports? Even the best baseball teams lose (and are expected to lose) 35-40% of the time. It's part of the reason for the Moneyball-style "get to the playoffs and see what happens" goal.

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, howeda7 said:

I'm intrigued by Eddie for Alcantara from the Marlins, but I would have done that instead of signing Pineda. A rotation of Berrios, Odorizzi, Alcantara and Pineda doesn't do it for me in a play-off series.

 

Eddie straight up for Alcantara is a long shot. First, Alcantara is under control through 2024, Rosario is through 2021...the Marlins aren't exactly in win-now mode. Even if they were, the Twins would have to add either multiple mid-level prospects or one prospect in the 4-6 range to Rosario to get the Marlins attention

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 8:05 PM, redstorm said:

Eddie straight up for Alcantara is a long shot. First, Alcantara is under control through 2025, Rosario through 2021...the Marlins aren't exactly in win-now mode. Even if they were, the Twins would have to add either multiple mid-level prospects or one prospect in the 4-6 range to Rosario to get the Marlins attention

I get that. I don't think we have to add any of our top 4 prospects to make it happen though. Maybe Rosario, the #3 pitcher and one more guy?

Alright-time to shift gears.

 

Sign Betances and a few other big RPs and turn into a bullpen team. 15 man pitching staff should do. Then load up on offense!

 

Icing on the cake is we don't have to worry about signing/being disappointed about not signing starting pitcher free agents any more! 

 

 

I think we are going to miss out on the second tier pitchers this year.  They might add some higher end relief pitchers if they can get short term deals.  I think they play their typical waiting game now as once the big fish are gone the prices will likely drop for the guys who are left.  They will get their bargain 5th starter that way.  

 

With the Eddie news it looks like they are going to have to try and find their pitcher upgrade with a trade.  I would hate to see Eddie go as he still has All Star upside and is going to be a good hitter for a long time.  If a team can teach him patience at the plate he will be a really, really good player for a long time.  Guys with great contact skills tend to hang around. 

 

I am a little bit surprised at how high the dollar values went for pitching in FA this year.  I thought we would better be able to compete.  Even the LAD and LAA lost out on getting Cole so they have to be bummed out as well.  Teams had to go big or go home empty this year and that is not the Twins MO.  I still think the Twins can find a pitcher to upgrade the team out there and I have hope that some of the pitchers in AA step up and become better than 5th starters as well.

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 9:00 PM, Dman said:

I think we are going to miss out on the second tier pitchers this year.  They might add some higher end relief pitchers if they can get short term deals.  I think they play their typical waiting game now as once the big fish are gone the prices will likely drop for the guys who are left.  They will get their bargain 5th starter that way.  

 

With the Eddie news it looks like they are going to have to try and find their pitcher upgrade with a trade.  I would hate to see Eddie go as he still has All Star upside and is going to be a good hitter for a long time.  If a team can teach him patience at the plate he will be a really, really good player for a long time.  Guys with great contact skills tend to hang around. 

 

I am a little bit surprised at how high the dollar values went for pitching in FA this year.  I thought we would better be able to compete.  Even the LAD and LAA lost out on getting Cole so they have to be bummed out as well.  Teams had to go big or go home empty this year and that is not the Twins MO.  I still think the Twins can find a pitcher to upgrade the team out there and I have hope that some of the pitchers in AA step up and become better than 5th starters as well.

 

The dollars are right in line with the last few years.....the two great players got the same moneyish as the two great hitters last year, and the Wheeler looks like Corbin/Darvish money.....or middle tier money like last year. This has been the price for 2-3 years now.

While I would love to have Bumgarner, I was never expecting it to happen. I'd say Rich Hill would be a nice lefty compliment though he is up there in age. I don't like Keichel at all. Ryu is good but injury prone. Teheran, Percello and Wacha would be my other choices from this list but they are all righties. Let's hope that we already have an ace in Berrios who could have a very big 2020. However, we also need to have a healthy Buxton and a good year from Sano. I for one, like Rosario though I don't know what he was trying to do against the Yankees. He was swinging wildly.

Rockies are extending Oberg.  

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/rockies-extend-scott-oberg.html

 

Looks like a good blueprint for the Twins doing the same with Taylor Rogers, IMO.  Might have to go 3/$15 mill with a $9-10 mill option in 2023, but I'd lock up Lefty Piece, if I could.

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 3:27 PM, Dome Dogg said:

Did anyone else find this interesting? 

Latest on free agent LHP Hyun-Jin Ryu. He said there's no truth to report coming out of Minnesota that he wants to stay on the West Coast. 

 

So, why is a report like this originating here in Minnesota and not with someone associated with Ryu? Who originated this report and for what purpose?

 

This is a new wrinkle this season, that it's not "budget constraints" causing the team's inactivity, but suddenly no one wants to play in Minnesota. 

I don't want to hear about market size, players like Yasmani Grandal will sign with the Brewers if the money is right. Is it the climate? Players don't need to live hear year-round to play for the Twins, and summers here are just as good if not better than New York or Boston. 

Read the following - I want the best offer I can get so I am going to make sure no one is eliminated from the bidding and then I will take the offer that puts me where I want to be. 

 

  On 12/11/2019 at 3:53 PM, Vanimal46 said:

I have these same concerns. Don't believe in the climate excuse at all. The Twins have a long standing preconception of not paying top dollar, so perhaps agents steer their clients away from the organization? Does Falvey and Levine already have a reputation for offering below market value contracts?

I don't think agents have nearly as much power in this as what is constantly mentioned at TD... agents job is to negotiate and present deals to the player. The player will pick what is best for the player.

 

Just a pet peeve of mine. They may not take the Twins seriously, but if the Twins are calling, a good agent is talking. 

Rockies have stated that they’re open to trading Arenado, should we??

  On 12/12/2019 at 12:09 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

Rockies have stated that they’re open to trading Arenado, should we??

He has almost no excess value. Just sign one of the expensive third baseman instead, and keep your prospects.

  On 12/12/2019 at 12:11 AM, Mike Sixel said:

He has almost no excess value. Just sign one of the expensive third baseman instead, and keep your prospects.

I don’t disagree, but it’s at least interesting to think about. Theoretically, if it did happen I’d feel much more comfortable about a Keuchel signing.

Give the Rockies Rosario and 5 prospects rated between 10 and 20 for Gray and Story. Move Polanco to 2nd, Arraez to 3rd, and Sano to 1st.

 

  On 12/12/2019 at 12:40 AM, terrydactyls1947 said:

Give the Rockies Rosario and 5 prospects rated between 10 and 20 for Gray and Story. Move Polanco to 2nd, Arraez to 3rd, and Sano to 1st.

 

Why would the Rockies do this for low level prospects?

  On 12/12/2019 at 12:49 AM, Mike Sixel said:

Why would the Rockies do this for low level prospects?

Two points.

 

1. They finished 20 games under 500 me need help.

2. They get one MLB player who could hit 45 home runs in Denver along with five prospects. Make it been 7 and 20 if you want to nitpick.

LENIII says twins charging hard after Donaldson. I’d love to see him mashing in a twins uni.

 

While everyone zigs we zag?

  On 12/12/2019 at 5:30 AM, ScooterDance said:

LENIII says twins charging hard after Donaldson. I’d love to see him mashing in a twins uni.

While everyone zigs we zag?

 

Right now, this moment, I don't buy it. Would be one of the only moves made that would make sense to move Sano this young to 1B. Also keeps the offense extremely potent.

 

If done, would signal they would look to the trade market for SP, maybe an additional flier, and focus on a pen addition or two and just avoid some of the crazy numbers and years we've seen thus far.