MLB to Impose 60-Game Season Upon Players, COVID Still Not Participating in Negotiations

There really is no progress. Both sides are entrenched not for 2020, but already looking forward to the next CBA. And I think we all recognise this. I'm really worried about the future of MLB and I absolutely blame both parties. Instead of nurturing the golden goose, each side wants to hunt it, claim it, and have it dressed up as a delicacy to their liking.

 

I miss baseball so much I can't even describe it. The world is just better when there is Baseball. Today stunk, but there is always another game tomorrow. Game threads, box scores, milb games and numbers, discussions, a game on the car radio with static, I miss it all.

 

Forgive me, but I'm so pissed at both sides and their posturing and short-sightedness that I almost want the season cancelled. Maybe then both sides would come back in 2021 with tails between their legs and less ego and posture and realize they need one another.

 

Damn! I miss watching a game with my dad and just talking baseball!

 

IF they play some sort of season this year, I admit I will watch and root. And no matter what happens, I will look forward to 2021 and a hopeful full season of both MLB and MILB. But I will know, in the back of my mind, that 2022 is basically a fantasy.

 

Every other sport is working through issues to make their sport work. Except baseball. They are mired down in posturizing on both sides for today and tomorrow that they can't see the forest through the trees. And NEITHER SIDE seems to have the ability to look at the success of other sports to realize what a common framework of cooperation could bring.

 

So I will watch and follow 2020 and what it brings. And I will do the same in 2021. And I will expect little or no baseball played in 2022. And I will watch both sides destroy a beautiful game and part of our ingrained society. And I will HOPE, beyond hope, that when players actually play, win, have fun, cash checks, fans rejoice, owners watch and enjoy, that each side will realize they need and want one another and want resolution that benefits everyone.

 

Before it's too late.

Who is going to catch / pick up the foul balls?

Bring in the scabs!

"Shut up and eat what's put in front o'ye!"

Knuckleheads on parade. It took them this long, and they won’t start until late July.

 

Sixty game season creates a different dynamic, More compact. Also, apparently they are returning to the days of doubleheaders. Expanded rosters? What happens to minor leaguers?

 

My hunch, and it’s only a hunch, is that we will see greater use of the “opener” strategy, and further break down of the traditional starter followed by relievers approach. With modern medicine, the coaching staff can monitor stress on pitching arms better, maximizing use of their best arms while hoping not to overwork them.

 

Over the course of a six month regular season, with 162 games, teams could get a higher ratio of innings from their best arms.

 

A more compact two-month regular season probably gives an advantage to deeper pitching staffs. So if you have a few stellar pitchers followed by a bunch of average or worse guys, this doesn’t benefit you. If, however, your staff isn’t dominated by aces but is fairly deep in above average pitching, this schedule benefits you.

 

Of course, after the regular season the playoffs await, and that’s when quality like cream rises to the top.

The good news is that baseball should have an easier time dealing with the virus than sports that have a lot of contact. Other than around home plate, a runner held on at first and plays at a base, there really isn't much contact. Thought I would see the rule from tee ball limiting leading off, but that never found its way into any discussion.

 

As to the future, everyone's guess is as good as the experts. When will the grievance be filed, if one is? Will the players show up for the playoffs when the owner's make more tv money? What happens when some team has half a dozen positive tests? If college football and the NFL have fans in the stands, why can't baseball also have 10,000+ fans beginning sometime in late August? Hell, that's the normal attendance at a Tampa Bay game...just spread them out a bit.

 

With only 60 games and no expanded playoffs, no team is a clear favorite. Will the Twins pitching depth get them into the playoffs? Will Miguel Sano be able to get out of the D.R. to be part of this team? If he isn't, who is at first...Kirilloff? And what about Romero, did he ever get his VISA? Lots of questions remain, will we like the answers?

 

2 months of public negotiations and horrible PR, only to go back to the original agreement. As Tom said, this was supposed to be the easy part. These heated negotiations have lost the casual fans... probably some diehards too.

I can’t get my hopes up with this development. They have a ton of work to do outlining health and safety protocols. NBA/NHL have been focusing on nothing but that since March and still can’t figure it out.

 

Actually, the original agreement specified terms if fans were present. They agreed further negotiations would be required if fans were not present. That's what the league attempted to do. The MLBPA decided to ignore that part of the agreement. Unless "we want 100 percent" is negotiating, they really never attempted to negotiate. That's why we are where we are.

 

The part that really chaps my ass is the whole "we don't see the economic need to negotiate. Based on the $3B revenue estimate, players (including draft bonuses & International) would receive 97% of the revenue. This includes taxes and benefits. We don't need to know much about operating costs to understand playing would result in more loss than just canceling the season. To suggest they can't see an economic need is absolutely absurd.

 

 

baseball - the sport of Cap Anson and the refusal to play black players until 1947, Umpire Dick Highman banned for life for taking bribes to fix games,  the Black Sox scandal, bribery and thrown games, Nap Lajoie was given bunt hits  in both games of a double header so that Ty Cobb would not win the batting title, Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, collusion in the 1980s, Pittsburgh drug trials in 1985, Al Campanis on nightline, biogenesis, steroids ruining the record book, 1972 strike, 1973 lockout, 1976 lockout, 1980 strike, 1981 strike, 1985 strike, 1990 lockout, 1994 strike, 2019 sign stealing scandal, the contraction of our Twins and Montreal Expos in 2001, the contraction of minor league baseball in 2020, and 2020 covid-19 and questionable negotiations.  

 

What a list - so what is the tipping point?  Do baseball owners really want to destroy the game?  It has already lost its place as America's National Pastime do they want to be relegated to a minor sport?

By voting no to the 60 game agreement, the players said we will file a grievance.  This is because they knew MLB would impose 60 games.  The grievance will get ugly.  There will be work stoppage in 2022, unless the two sides spend a lot of time having meaningful talks over the next year.  

 

What is not clear to me is if the players need to agree to expanded playoffs this year, or if MLB can just force it.  Also with DH in NL, does there need to be agreement there?  Do the players need to agree to the altered alignment that has been discussed?  Can MLB impose a "bubble" plan like they discussed before?  With no agreement at all, outside of the full prorated pay, do players need to agree to the other details? 

 

What some may not be thinking about is fact we do not know what next year will bring.  We hope that there is vaccine by next season and COVID will be in rear view, but at this time we do not know what will be allowed.  As states are opening up cases are increasing.  Will there be limitations to number of fans next year?  If there will be we will be right where we are again.  Owners will not do a full season with no fans or even 25%  Maybe at 50% but if that still limits the high priced seats and would require more low priced seat sales that may not fly either. 

 

I would not be surprised if there is possibly 2 full seasons without baseball.  This year and next.  Hopefully during that time they can work out something for 22 agreement.  If this standoff is any sign of the future things do not look good. 

 

As has been talked about, the owners these days are not owning the team as the main way to make money.  It is a side investment.  What that means is if they are not making money they will not invest.  That also means they have less of an interest to make sure games happen.  Think about it.  If are a billionare without the team, why would you need the team?  What I am getting at is the owners can out wait the players, should they decide.  Most of the players cannot go 2 seasons without pay.  Some cannot even go 1 season without pay.  Very few people will budget for that, when you are expecting income coming in, plus they are not making the millions that the top players are making.  Most are in the first three year pay levels, and when you take out taxes and agent fees, and other people you employ, what a player takes home in first three years is not a ton.  Yes, it is better than many who watch, but the point is, they are not able to rest making nothing.

 

In the end, the owners always have the power because they can survive with not making money from the business of baseball, where most of the players do not make money unless they are playing baseball. I hope both sides get heads out of you know where and work together.  I doubt it will happen but here is to hoping. 

I think both sides want to play, both sides want to make money. But neither side is looking forward to worst case scenario, what if a player, ump or manager gets sick and dies, or less serious what if there is an outbreak on one or two teams, what do they do.

It is easy to say they can social distance in the field, but only a fraction of the team(and personnel) are in the field at one one, the rest are in the dugout and bullpen.

 

Another question could the Twins actually follow the state and city rules to practice at Target field.

 

I think both sides want to play, both sides want to make money. But neither side is looking forward to worst case scenario, what if a player, ump or manager gets sick and dies, or less serious what if there is an outbreak on one or two teams, what do they do.

It is easy to say they can social distance in the field, but only a fraction of the team(and personnel) are in the field at one one, the rest are in the dugout and bullpen.

 

Another question could the Twins actually follow the state and city rules to practice at Target field.

I think it is more a when that an if. In half of the country the cases are increasing.

Feels like 1994 in a way. Nobody is going to win this. Hopefully it somehow makes the next CBA go more smoothly since it was a "pre-negotiation" of sorts. If they hit another standstill...it won't be good.

 

baseball - the sport of Cap Anson and the refusal to play black players until 1947, Umpire Dick Highman banned for life for taking bribes to fix games,  the Black Sox scandal, bribery and thrown games, Nap Lajoie was given bunt hits  in both games of a double header so that Ty Cobb would not win the batting title, Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, collusion in the 1980s, Pittsburgh drug trials in 1985, Al Campanis on nightline, biogenesis, steroids ruining the record book, 1972 strike, 1973 lockout, 1976 lockout, 1980 strike, 1981 strike, 1985 strike, 1990 lockout, 1994 strike, 2019 sign stealing scandal, the contraction of our Twins and Montreal Expos in 2001, the contraction of minor league baseball in 2020, and 2020 covid-19 and questionable negotiations.  

 

What a list - so what is the tipping point?  Do baseball owners really want to destroy the game?  It has already lost its place as America's National Pastime do they want to be relegated to a minor sport?

I fear MLS will top MLB and that will be a sad day for me.  Imagine U.S. players going to Japan to get paid more and be in the best league around.  It just may happen.  People only have so much sports money to spend. 

 

There really is no progress. Both sides are entrenched not for 2020, but already looking forward to the next CBA. And I think we all recognise this. I'm really worried about the future of MLB and I absolutely blame both parties. Instead of nurturing the golden goose, each side wants to hunt it, claim it, and have it dressed up as a delicacy to their liking.

I miss baseball so much I can't even describe it. The world is just better when there is Baseball. Today stunk, but there is always another game tomorrow. Game threads, box scores, milb games and numbers, discussions, a game on the car radio with static, I miss it all.

Forgive me, but I'm so pissed at both sides and their posturing and short-sightedness that I almost want the season cancelled. Maybe then both sides would come back in 2021 with tails between their legs and less ego and posture and realize they need one another.

Damn! I miss watching a game with my dad and just talking baseball!

IF they play some sort of season this year, I admit I will watch and root. And no matter what happens, I will look forward to 2021 and a hopeful full season of both MLB and MILB. But I will know, in the back of my mind, that 2022 is basically a fantasy.

Every other sport is working through issues to make their sport work. Except baseball. They are mired down in posturizing on both sides for today and tomorrow that they can't see the forest through the trees. And NEITHER SIDE seems to have the ability to look at the success of other sports to realize what a common framework of cooperation could bring.

So I will watch and follow 2020 and what it brings. And I will do the same in 2021. And I will expect little or no baseball played in 2022. And I will watch both sides destroy a beautiful game and part of our ingrained society. And I will HOPE, beyond hope, that when players actually play, win, have fun, cash checks, fans rejoice, owners watch and enjoy, that each side will realize they need and want one another and want resolution that benefits everyone.

Before it's too late.

 

Doc, IMO, one side or the other bares more blame. They either had an agreement to negotiate terms if fans were not present or they did not. If not, why were the owners presenting options at less than full prorated salaries. If there was no agreement to negotiate terms without fans present, the owners are not only at fault, they should be held accountable for games lost and be required to pay the players for those games missed as a result of their "bad faith" approach.

 

If there was an agreement to negotiate terms if fans were not present, the MLBPA basically elected to ignore the parts of the agreement that were not in their best interest. If there was an agreement to negotiate terms in the event fans were not present, the owners offers and actions are perfectly reasonable. If such an agreement was in place, to say the MLBPA's handling of this situation was in bad faith would be putting it mildly. 

 

One side ignored the March agreement. That side is at at fault. I hope a legal action is filed because whichever side ignored that agreement should be held accountable. The facts will be transparent if legal action is taken. 

 

As Tom said, lots of logistics to work out. Frankly, I've thought this all along ... the 'we vs them' between players and owners/mlb in pay and revenue mean nothing if they can't field and/or keep a team fielded during this time. Will players from outside the country be granted access to come into the U.S.? How quickly can all the paperwork get done for this to happen? What will the protocols be? What happens when one person tests positive, then 3 ... what if half a team needs to be quarantined? Who is asymptomatic and who gets seriously ill? Sure, most of the players are in a low risk group, but, not all of the personnel from onfield managers, coaches, trainers, etc are necessarily low risk. A lot of time has been wasted when these issues, and right now I'd say they were the larger issues, haven't been addressed, at all. And it wouldn't surprise me if this is the reason baseball won't happen this year, which tells me it probably never was going to, and all these negotiations were just posturing.

There is a 67 page safety manual that was drafted at the beginning of this.  The players will have to agree to it before returning to play.  Part of that has some rule changes, such as the 30 man squads, taxi squad, universal DH, limited travel, and many other things, that should hopefully address the questions you bring up.  Maybe it does not.  However, it seems the safety issue was either agreed to, or not all that important as other than opt out options for pay safety was never part of any discussion, at least that were leaked to press. 

 

 

I think both sides want to play, both sides want to make money. But neither side is looking forward to worst case scenario, what if a player, ump or manager gets sick and dies, or less serious what if there is an outbreak on one or two teams, what do they do.

It is easy to say they can social distance in the field, but only a fraction of the team(and personnel) are in the field at one one, the rest are in the dugout and bullpen.

 

Another question could the Twins actually follow the state and city rules to practice at Target field.

There has been very few posts about safety.  They have a plan it is a 67 page plan that lays out much of what you bring up and much more.  However, nothing about this was fighting over what returning would look like.  There were some players expressing concerns, but none of the back and forth was if the plan was safe enough. 

Feels like 1994 in a way. Nobody is going to win this. Hopefully it somehow makes the next CBA go more smoothly since it was a "pre-negotiation" of sorts. If they hit another standstill...it won't be good.

Just read the comments from casual fans over on the Strib. Lots of "I'm gonna watch town ball", "Who cares, I'm into gardening now", "I'm not gonna watch because I'm mad at the owners/players/ugly negotiations, etc.", "I'm not watching because I'm too concerned about world events and tired of rich owners and players" comments over there.

Doc, IMO, one side or the other bares more blame. They either had an agreement to negotiate terms if fans were not present or they did not. If not, why were the owners presenting options at less than full prorated salaries. If there was no agreement to negotiate terms without fans present, the owners are not only at fault, they should be held accountable for games lost and be required to pay the players for those games missed as a result of their "bad faith" approach.

 

If there was an agreement to negotiate terms if fans were not present, the MLBPA basically elected to ignore the parts of the agreement that were not in their best interest. If there was an agreement to negotiate terms in the event fans were not present, the owners offers and actions are perfectly reasonable. If such an agreement was in place, to say the MLBPA's handling of this situation was in bad faith would be putting it mildly.

 

One side ignored the March agreement. That side is at at fault. I hope a legal action is filed because whichever side ignored that agreement should be held accountable. The facts will be transparent if legal action is taken.

I mentioned this in a post elsewhere, but a couple weeks ago on national radio a journalist, Heyman I believe it was, stated he had read the March document and it contained a provision to open dialogue again as more information was gained, such as no fans in attendance.

 

I mentioned this in a post elsewhere, but a couple weeks ago on national radio a journalist, Heyman I believe it was, stated he had read the March document and it contained a provision to open dialogue again as more information was gained, such as no fans in attendance.

 

I heard the same thing on one of the MLB radio shows on Sirius Radio and I thought it was generally accepted this language existed. If this is the case, MLB was following the spirit of that agreement while the MLBPA simply ignored the parts they did not want to abide by from start to finish. Based on the numbers I ran, MLB was being very fair with the 72 game proposal but the players stuck too "100% prorated and a number of games that simply was not even remotely feasible. I am at a loss as to why the MLBPA should not be held accountable for this failure IF this language exists. 

 

I actually kind of hope this is litigated so the facts come out. My gut tells me there was some misconduct. Frankly, I would like to see the guilty parties held accountable if that's the case. Lot's of jobs outside of players and team employees were impacted. The parties involved need to be held accountable.

 

wasn't the whole issue salary proration? That proposal is 104% to the players which means they'll get paid at a slightly higher rate than what they would have in a full season... or am I reading this wrong?

It is 104% of the pro rated salary.  They will get paid for slightly more than 60 games.  So they are still losing more than half of their yearly salary.

 

The big hangup was the players wanted as long of a season as possible because the prorated salary would go up for each game played. They felt the owners were asking for a shorter season for the exact opposite reason. Since no tickets are being sold, they don't make any money by having more games, they only lose more by paying players more.  I wouldn't view 104% as a big win for the players. 80-100 games would have been a win for players.