Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Misconceptions


    Seth Stohs

    This week, Byung Ho Park came to Minnesota, agreed to a deal, and yesterday met the Twin Cities media in a press conference. Since news broke that the Twins had signed Park to a four year, $12 million contract (with a fifth-year option that could make it 5 years, $18 million) plus incentives, there have been a lot of interesting topics discussed. I think there are also quite a few misconceptions out there that I thought I would touch on briefly today and encourage more discussion.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

    Twins Video

    Here are a few of the misconceptions that I’ve noted in recent days.

    Expectations Should Be Lowered For Park Based On His Contract

    Should they be lowered? No. Will some lower them? Certainly. In my opinion, he is the same player whether he signed for $3 million a year, as he did, or would haive signed for $8-10 mllion a year, which was rumored. He is the same player. He will go through the same struggles as he adjusts to life in the States, playing with a new team, playing in a new league.

    It’s like expecting Joe Mauer would suddenly become an even better player because he signed a huge contract at age 27. Expectations based on contract are hardly ever fair.

    The Twins Low-Balled Park

    That was the first reaction of some Twins fans. It was also the reaction of many in Korea who thought he would make more coming to MLB. That showed in yesterday’s press conference when two members of Korean media started with questions about the contract.

    The reality is that the Twins worked within the current rules set up for players who are posted from Korea. Even Park’s agent, Alan Nero from Octagon, said that they played by the rules. He was a better player than Jung Ho Kang who signed a year earlier after putting up great numbers in Korea, and he got a little bit more than him.

    Was the contract fair? That could be debated. Is any contract fair when one party is negotiating solely with one other party? But that’s not the Twins fault. If anything is to blame, blame the system.

    We Have a Good Idea of How Productive Park Will Be

    Like any player, or especially any free agent, we have no idea how productive Byung Ho Park will be for the Twins in 2016 and beyond. Can we compare his stats in the KBO to the stats of Jung Ho Kang’s numbers in the KBO and then consider Kang’s number in MLB last year and assume that Park’s will be a little better than that? Sure, we can do that. Does it mean anything? Maybe, but probably not.

    Park could come in and put up the types of numbers that Jose Abreu did in his rookie season for the White Sox two years ago. He could run away with rookie of the year votes. He could become a fixture in the middle of a strong Twins lineup. Who knows? He could hit 40 home runs every year.

    Or, he could hit .185, strike out 210 times a year, and really struggle in the adjustment.

    I hope people are already over the misconception that we can compare Park coming to the Twins with Tsuyoshi Nishioka coming to the Twins half a decade ago. However, it is fair to say that Nishioka’s resume in Japan (in the NPB which is generally considered a better, more talented league than the KBO) was almost as impressive as Park’s in Korea.

    Nishioka was an All-Star, a batting champ, a gold glove winner. He had a ton of accolades. Park has been an MVP, a gold glove winner, a home run champion and more.

    I think this signing will be great, but clearly, time will tell.

    The Twins Have To Trade Trevor Plouffe

    Terry Ryan surprised several people yesterday at the news conference when he flatly said that he would keep the rest of the lineup intact. He said Plouffe would be his third baseman, and Miguel Sano would move to the outfield.

    Most have been working under an assumption that the Twins would deal Plouffe for pitching (or other talent) and clear the way for Miguel Sano to play third base. There is this thought that Miguel Sano can’t play in the outfield.

    He’s too big. Not fast enough. Hasn’t played the position in his life.

    Of those three things, only the last one is probably true. Yes, he weighed in at 268 pounds at the end of the season. Yes, that is a number that he and the Twins will need to watch closely as he moves forward. It’s likely a weight that will hold him back as he ages. But for 2016, he is a great athlete. He can get going.

    There are many slower outfielders out there. I mean, Oswaldo Arcia and Josh Willingham come to mind. Michael Cuddyer was not any faster than Miguel Sano is, and he was able to handle right field. The phrase “once he gets going” would likely be uttered a lot.

    His size isn’t the concern at this time. The fact that he hasn’t played in the outfield is a concern, but that is a concern whether he weighs 268 or 208. It will be an adjustment. He is talented and knows the game enough to catch fly balls. That’s the easy part of the position. But positioning, playing the ball off the wall, knowing where to throw, hitting the cut-off man, adjusting for slices, playing the ball hit directly over your head. Those are not easy.

    However, there have been a lot of infielders that have moved out to the outfield. Chipper Jones moved from third base to left field. Miguel Cabrera came up for the Marlins as a 20 year old in 2013 and played left field, a position he hadn’t played before on a World Series champion team. Last year, the Cubs played Kris Bryant in the outfield in 16 games, and Kyle Schwarber was an outfielder in the playoffs. These guys weren’t great (or even good) outfielders defensively, but it does show that winning teams can make these types of decisions.

    The best example, from a positive perspective, might be the Royals Alex Gordon. He was a questionable third baseman who was pushed to left field and has become a multiple Gold Glove winner.

    The idea of a Rosario, Buxton, Hicks outfield was very exciting for Twins fans (and Twins pitchers), but it's likely that two very good outfielders will be in the outfield.

    Ryan also said that the offense was a problem in 2015, and I think we would all agree, so trading Plouffe isn’t a great plan. I think we can all agree with that. The team does need to score runs and having Plouffe and Sano in a lineup gives it a better chance to do so.

    Plouffe Won’t Be Traded

    I have to add this one as well. While I believe that the Twins won’t be actively looking to deal Trevor Plouffe during the Winter Meetings next week, I don’t believe that they won’t listen to anyone who is interested. If a great package of players that can help the Twins win in 2016 and beyond is offered, it could happen.

    Terry Ryan shouldn’t trade Trevor Plouffe just to make room at third base for Miguel Sano. However, if he gets an offer that he can’t refuse, well, he shouldn’t refuse it.

    Some have even said that because of the contract that Park signed, and the fact that it was less than assumed, the Twins no longer have to trade Plouffe. The Park and Plouffe contracts are not restraining the Twins if they’re both around. They can still go out and sign a reliever or two and address other needs with both on the roster. The idea of trading Plouffe is about opening up third base for Sano and adding arms, not about money.

    The Winter Meetings should be interesting for Twins fans. How will it all play out? Well, I guess we’ll find out.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    $12 million dollars is still a lot of money!!! I think I could feed my family with that.

     

    If he was unhappy with the money he could have shot for a shorter 2-3 years deal. He didn't have much leverage.

     

    $12 million dollars is a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yup. My 'shock' wasn't so much that it wasn't a lot of money, I just thought the market would set it higher.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Misconception?

    It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

    Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

    Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

    Career  WRC favors Plouffe, career OPS+ favors Plouffe. Nunez had a career year.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Tremendous write up Seth! Couldn't agree more!

     

    Not only did Park sign the deal that he and his agent worked out, but there isn't exactly a precedent set for how well Korean talent will translate to MLB. Park is what, the second guy ever? So while I am very surprised and think the Twins may have gotten a deal here, it's still a lot of money. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't he have another $1M per based on 400 AB's?

     

    There is nothing wrong with keeping Plouffe at this time. I think a lot of us have said that. But the fact is, without Sano moving to the OF...or someone...there is a logjam at 1B/3B/DH unless someone is injured. My problem with moving Sano to the OF isn't that he couldn't learn to do it, maybe even learn to do it well...but...how exactly does him learning to play OF actually help the OF defensively? Further, let's say it takes a season, (at least), and probably two before he gets really comfortable and looks really good out there. Let's say he looks really, really good even. What happens in two more years when Plouffe is a FA? Does he bolt? Does he fade? Do we sign in him an extension before that? 

     

    And what about Kepler and Walker, along with Buxton and Rosario? Does the OF get too crowded in a year or so? I'm not saying we have to trade Plouffe, or that we should trade him. But I am saying there may be a decent return for him, we may break up a bit of a logjam personnel wise, and we aren't putting square pegs in to round holes yet again.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    has anyone talked about the idea of moving ploooof to the outfield? 

     

    he was out there before he grew up and matured as a GREAT hitter! 

     

    thoughts?

    I mentioned this in the comments of the original "Sano is going to the outfield" article and was roundly flogged for it.  Those that took exception noted that Plouffe is slower (not a deal breaker in my opinion) but also that Plouffe is already an above average 3b, so moving him for a player we're unsure of (but would most likely be league average as he's still learning the position) plus putting below average outfield defense out there in Plouffe would be downgrading two positions defensively.  Valid points, and I guess it was hard to argue.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Good stuff Seth (although "able to handle right field" might need to be clarified, as Cuddy really struggled at Target Field).  However, I do agree that Sano is the better athlete and could play RF from an athletic standpoint.

     

    I also tend to agree with Platoon and a few others when it comes to Ploufe.  It just feels like there is not going to be a better time to move him.  Maybe we don't get that much, but how will that change moving forward?

     

    Terry appears pretty adamant on this though.  I guess we will see.

    If we don't get that much and it doesn't change moving forward what difference does it make if we move him now or later?      If we don't get that much for him now then I am just fine with keeping him.

     

      Too early for this?

    1. Buxton

    2. Mauer

    3. Sano

    4. Park

    5. Plouffe

    6. Escobar

    7. Dozier

    8. Rosario

    9. Susuki/Murphy

    Right now this is better than anything we put out there if Sano does not play outfield, at least until Kepler is up.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Misconception?

    It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

    Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

    Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

    Eh... Nunez played about 1/3 of the season, compared to Plouffe's full season. (204 PAs to 632 PAs)

     

    To his credit, Nunez had a good season and deserves a bench spot on almost any team. However, if he played a full season, I'm confident his numbers would have regressed.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Misconception?

    It seems that the majority here want to keep Plouffe because he is very good and they want Nunez gone because he sucks.

    Plouffe: .244/.307/.435/.742 99 ops+

    Nunez: .282/.327/.431/.758 104 ops+

    Well, there's defense too.  We aren't comparing DHs here. Also Plouffe has over 4100 IP at 3B and Nunez has less than 800 IP. There's also the fact that the comparisons given above are for one season and fail to mention Plouffe had more than 3 times as many PAs

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I mentioned this in the comments of the original "Sano is going to the outfield" article and was roundly flogged for it.  Those that took exception noted that Plouffe is slower (not a deal breaker in my opinion) but also that Plouffe is already an above average 3b, so moving him for a player we're unsure of (but would most likely be league average as he's still learning the position) plus putting below average outfield defense out there in Plouffe would be downgrading two positions defensively.  Valid points, and I guess it was hard to argue.

    Wow, somebody's mind got changed on an issue? This never would have happened, on Facebook.

     

    post-13-0-70471700-1449185893.jpg

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    If we don't get that much and it doesn't change moving forward what difference does it make if we move him now or later?      If we don't get that much for him now then I am just fine with keeping him.

     

      Too early for this?

    1. Buxton

    2. Mauer

    3. Sano

    4. Park

    5. Plouffe

    6. Escobar

    7. Dozier

    8. Rosario

    9. Susuki/Murphy

    Right now this is better than anything we put out there if Sano does not play outfield, at least until Kepler is up.  

    Not too early at all, IMPO. But I would bump Dozier and his mix of OB, power and speed up to 5 or 6. Regardless of a 5-6 of Plouffe/Dozier or Dozier/Plouffe, I'd put Rosario and his mixed bag of excitement and left handed bat in the 7 hole...Escobar 8th...Zuke and the killer 9th.

     

    As stated, at least until Kepler is ready. (or Plouffe is traded-making way for Arcia?)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Yup. My 'shock' wasn't so much that it wasn't a lot of money, I just thought the market would set it higher.

    There was no market. Once the Twins won the bid,it's a take it or leave it. He had to take it. He is almost 30, and he gets a shot at MLB. I would have done the same thing in a heartbeat. Parks decision was correct, based on the options he had.
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I know I am both Old and Old fashioned - I like defense.   I like fast agile defenders who prevent runs.  I like Buxton, Rosario, Kepler.  I like a great infield, but we cannot have that.  Escobar and Dozier are at least average.   The corners?  I know we tend to see teams sacrifice here, but the biggest issue for me is that if Sano is not OF and I hope he is not, and if he is not DH - we have now committed this - we have to put him at 3B.  Catcher???

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...