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  • Let's Talk About Logan Forsythe


    Parker Hageman

    Logan Forsythe’s 19-game run with the Minnesota Twins has been fairly remarkable.

    In the time since he came over from the Dodgers in the Brian Dozier trade, Forsythe has led the team in batting average (.377) and on-base percentage (.434). Yes, a little over two weeks is the poster child for small sample size enthusiasts and having half of your hits come on ground balls isn’t exactly a roadmap for sustainability, yet Forsythe has looked good considering he was flotsam in LA.

    While the hits have been nice, it’s a far cry from his days with the Tampa Bay Rays where he was hitting double-digit dingers.

    Image courtesy of Kamil Krzaczynski-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    If there is one thing you should remember from this article it is that Logan Forsythe rarely swings the bat. Over the last two seasons, Joe Mauer offered at 36 percent of pitches thrown his direction. The only person who swung less than that was Logan Forsythe. He deemed just 34 percent of pitches worthy of his lumber. So when a rare event like a Logan Forsythe swing transpired, you would want results that were worthy of the wait.

    He is sort of the infield version of Robbie Grossman -- likes to gamble that the pitcher can’t throw two consecutive strikes when down in the count. The Dodgers, however, were not fans of this passive approach of letting very hittable pitches scurry by.

    If there is a second thing you should remember from this article it is that Logan Forsythe did hit a healthy number of home runs, once upon a time.

    In 2015, Forsythe hit 17 home runs with the Rays. He followed that up with another 20 in 2016. His play was enticing enough that, when the Twins balked at trading Dozier in 2017, the Dodgers flipped a solid pitching prospect for Forsythe instead.

    However, upon his arrival to Los Angeles, he stopped hitting for power. There were various ailments cited -- a toe injury in April 2017 and a shoulder injury in April 2018 -- that zapped some of his power potential and limited his time on the field.

    While those are all factors for the power outage, there is also a component of his swing that changed significantly between 2016 and now. Watch the clip of his swing in 2016 (right) compared to 2018 (left):

    FSFrameGIFImage (4).GIF

    Both swings are against 93 MPH fastballs away from left-handed pitchers, thrown in plus-counts when a hitter should be hunting. For the most part the swings are similar but Forsythe has toned down his pre-launch bat movement since 2016.

    FSFrameGIFImage.GIF

    The added movement before the launch equated to more bat speed. It's simple: less bat speed, less exit velocity.

    For whatever reason -- a coach’s instruction, a tip from a player, his own development and feel, etc -- Forsythe has removed this element of his swing. In doing so, his average exit velocity has dropped, his average launch angle has decreased, and his ability to drive the ball to right field for power has declined as well (he hit 10 home runs to right in 2015-2016 and has zero since).

    There is a lot to like about Forsythe’s ability to get the barrel to the ball. He’s a barrel turner (as opposed to someone who hacks down). Watch as his hands turn the barrel rearward before rotating forward to contact. This gets the barrel on plane longer and allows for him to stay back longer instead of drifting toward the pitcher.

    FSFrameGIFImage (1).GIF

    The other thing to appreciate is that Forsythe actually has a two-strike approach -- something that isn’t always shared by his contemporaries. In two-strike situations Forsythe tones down, eliminating the leg kick and long distance hand load, to try to wait as long as possible and adjust on off-speed pitches:

    FSFrameGIFImage (3).GIF

    Forsythe rarely chases breaking balls out of the zone. According to ESPN/TruMedia’s data, since 2017 he’s reached on just 14.3 percent of breaking balls outside of the zone whereas the average hitter has done so on just over 30 percent. For comparison’s sake, Joe Mauer has even chased after 23 percent of breaking balls in that time. Forsythe will swing through some (8 percent, same as Mauer) and the results aren’t great when he does make contact (a .588 OPS vs .657 MLB average) but with baseball’s increasing reliance on nasty breaking balls, being able to wait back and keep from chasing after those pitches is rare skill set.

    Since coming over to the Twins, Forsythe has been some sort of bizarro Shannon Stewart and has been a spark plug for the offense. The offense, of course, isn’t going anywhere except home in October but Forsythe’s play has at least kept the team from improving its draft position.

    This isn’t meant to read as a sales pitch to the Twins to try to retain Logan Forsythe. A week ago, Seth Stohs asked “What To Do With Logan Forsythe” and the prevailing sentiment seemed to be “drive him to the airport”. When he was acquired, it was accepted that Forsythe was a placeholder until the end of the year. That should probably stay, but night after night he’s piled on the hits and has given the front office, at the very least, a mild case of the considerations.

    Truthfully, this is probably more of a sales pitch for contending teams interested in an additional bench bat or utility player. If someone is willing to surrender a prospect or project to have a high-contact right-handed bat on the bench for the playoffs (there’s got to be a team interested in a player who can put the ball in play in a pinch) the Twins should absolutely move him. What’s more, Forsythe would also come with untapped power potential if someone could convince him to rekindle his 2016 swing.

    If there is a third thing you should remember from this article it is that it ended.

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    What positions have they said that? Certainly not the outfield. Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS and Mauer at IB is solid, and Castro and Garver are a solid duo at C.

     

    Anyway you can expand on your post with specifics? I believe if you actually put it in writing, you will see at the very most, we will have one placeholder and that is unlikely.

    I think what he means is, he doesn't want to see a placeholder at any position. Which the subject of this thread (Forsythe) would represent, in his opinion.

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    What positions have they said that? Certainly not the outfield. Sano at 3B, Polanco at SS and Mauer at IB is solid, and Castro and Garver are a solid duo at C. 

     

    Anyway you can expand on your post with specifics? I believe if you actually put it in writing, you will see at the very most, we will have one placeholder and that is unlikely.

     

    they haven't at all, but people on this thread are literally doing that. So I'm not sure what point you are making here.

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    ...

    My dream? Elvis Andrus to compete and start with new opportunity, or become a very valuable utility player. (I may be wrong, but am thinking he's a FA or possible FA). Regardless, versatility and every day, we need Escobar and another solid infielder.

    FYI: The Rangers have Elvis Andrus signed through 2022 with an option for 2023.

    Made me think enough that I looked it up.  :)

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    I'd trade him for whatever you can get for him here this week. 

     

    Look to sign or trade for a 2B or SS that has some real talent. Yes, this will cost either money or prospects. I don't want to bring back a fringe guy like Forsythe. He'd be fine as a bench piece on a 1-year deal to backup some of the infield, but that's it for me. 

    Set your sights higher. I don't have a lot of faith in Gordon, so if you want to go and trade for someone younger, go ahead and do so. Then use Gordon as trade bait when needed.

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    FYI: The Rangers have Elvis Andrus signed through 2022 with an option for 2023.

    Made me think enough that I looked it up. :)

    Andrus can opt out this winter, but he probably won't, given his health/performance this year and a deep infield FA market. (He had done well enough in 2016-2017 to make it a possibility, though.)

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    The Twins need to acquire at least one starting infielder. If they “fall back” to Adrianza starting, we see the 2019 version of Taylor Motter when someone inevitibly gets hurt.

    For multiple reasons, I believe Escobar is that guy, taking Machado completely out of the equation.

     

    And at the risk of repeating myself, the still need someone else. Until the season is done, and everything shakes out, no, I'm not certain who that guy may be. I am NOT opposed to someone over 30 on a bounce back, or even adding a quality utility guy, or someone who hasn't lived up to expectation yet. But you need someone other than the mentioned Escobar for competition and depth. We simply can't go in to 2019 with Adrianza and nobody else while waiting for Gordon. We need depth and options. If the right guy is signed and he could actually start at 2B daily, the worst case scenario is that Escobar plays daily at 3 spots and even DH's at times.

     

    NOT saying it should be Forsythe. Castro is an intriguing idea. But I wonder who else we might consider?

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    FYI: The Rangers have Elvis Andrus signed through 2022 with an option for 2023.

    Made me think enough that I looked it up.  :)

    Thank you for the correction. For some reason, I was under the impression he was a FA or possible non tender candidate.

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    How about DJ LeMatheiu of the Rockies? Free agent at year end. Will cost a pretty penny but at age 30 a 4 year deal is doable.

     

    Wonder, would he cost that much? Rockies players leaving their confines and the NL concern me somewhat. Don't have career splits, but this season splits are pretty dramatic. Seemsntonhave a solid bat, OB and some pop. Seems stuck on 2B the last few season's. Could be interesting but still need to see more splits other than 2018.

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    Wonder, would he cost that much? Rockies players leaving their confines and the NL concern me somewhat. Don't have career splits, but this season splits are pretty dramatic. Seemsntonhave a solid bat, OB and some pop. Seems stuck on 2B the last few season's. Could be interesting but still need to see more splits other than 2018.

    Career:

    Home: .830 OPS

    Road: .683 OPS

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    Considering Gordon has struggled pretty bad a AAA, I'd be in favor of re-signing Forsythe to a 1 year, place holder type of deal. 2nd basement market looks pretty strong, but if the twins envision Gordon, or other internal options as the long play, makes sense to re-sign Forsythe. Especially since he'd be pretty cheap option you'd think, considering his down years with LA.

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    From a Dodgers fan's perspective on what caused Forsythe's decline:

     

    -Always in a pitcher's count.  Rarely does he swing at the first pitch.  He looks as if he's sitting fastball middle-in until he has two strikes on him and then he's in defense mode.  It's been very frustrating to watch.

     

    -No power at Chavez-Ravine.  The ball doesn't carry there at night so unless he really pulled the ball it was dying at the track.

     

    -Injuries set him back to start both seasons

    -This season he choked under the bright lights.

     

    I watched Logan at Spring Training before the 2017 season.  He could go the other way for a base knock at will.  After getting injured, he was never right against RH pitching.  He still hit well vs lefties and drew a lot of walks.  After a nice post-season everyone thought he would return to closer what he had done in the past, but with less power and nice defense.  It didn't happen.  He defense regressed a bit too and then he was pressing.  His AB's were just plain awful and it was apparent he was choking under the bright lights because fans/media were questioning why he was on the diamond so much if he wasn't even producing against left-handers this season.  

    Edited by HawkeyeDodger
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    -No power at Chavez-Ravine. The ball doesn't carry there at night so unless he really pulled the ball it was dying at the track.

     

    Forsythe had a 78 wRC+ and .115 ISO at home with the Dodgers, and a 79 wRC+ and .076 ISO on the road.

     

    https://www.fangraphs.com/splitstool.aspx?playerid=7185&position=2B&splitArr=&strgroup=career&statgroup=2&startDate=2017-04-03&endDate=2018-07-30&filter=&statType=player&autoPt=true&players=&pg=0&pageItems=30&sort=-1,1

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