Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • How Much Will It Cost to Trade for Noah Syndergaard?


    Andrew Thares

    Over the past few weeks, we have been spending a lot of time focusing on the multitude of relievers that the Twins could acquire before the July 31st trade deadline, and rightfully so, since that is the biggest need on the team right now. However, that isn’t the only need the Minnesota Twins have, as they could also benefit by adding another arm at the top of the rotation to give them more firepower during a playoff push. One such guy that could be available to fit this role is New York Mets fireballer Noah Syndergaard.

    Image courtesy of © Greg M. Cooper-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    Adding an arm like Noah Syndergaard to the likes of Jose Berrios and Jake Odorizzi could give the Twins a formidable top of the rotation that will be scary for opposing teams to face in the postseason. Unfortunately, acquiring a pitcher like Syndergaard won’t be cheap, as the Mets are probably not too eager to move him, on top of the fact that if he does become available, nearly every team in the postseason hunt will be looking to acquire him. So, what would it take to land this stud pitcher? Let’s find out.

    First, we will start by looking at what the Twins would be acquiring if they were to trade for Noah Syndergaard. At 26 years of age, Syndergaard is just now entering the prime of his career and would make a lot of sense to add in with this young Twins core. Syndergaard is currently making $6,000,000 in his second year of arbitration, but since he entered his first year of arbitration as a Super 2, Syndergaard won’t become a free agent until after the 2021 season, which gives the Twins 2 and 1/2 season of team control. This could factor in huge for the Twins this offseason, as the only two pitchers in the current rotation they have coming back next year are Jose Berrios and Martin Perez (if they pick up Perez’s $7,500,000 team option).

    After making his MLB debut in 2015, Noah Syndergaard quickly established himself as one of the premier starting pitchers in the game. His 100 MPH fastball electrified fans, and his result were nothing short of stellar. However, Syndergaard suffered a setback in 2017 when he torn his right latissimus muscle just a month into the season, causing him to be out for nearly five months. Syndergaard bounced back well from his injury in 2018, posting a 3.03 ERA (2.80 FIP) in 154 and 1/3 innings. 2019 hasn’t quite been the same story for Syndergaard, as he has a 4.55 ERA (3.62 FIP) in 95 innings. The worrisome part for Syndergaard is his strikeout rate has dipped slightly since the injury. Prior to the injury, Syndergaard had a 28.4% strikeout rate (which ranked sixth among starting pitchers with at least 200 IP over that timeframe). Since the injury, however, Syndergaard has a strikeout rate of 23.9% (which ranks 42nd among starting pitchers with at least 200 IP over that timeframe). Syndergaard’s fastball velocity has dipped a tick too, though it still remains among the fastest in baseball. In 2016 and 2017, Syndergaard averaged 98.6 MPH on his fastball. In the two years since, Syndergaard's fastball has averaged 97.6 MPH. Additionally, Syndergaard has been on the IL since June 15th with a hamstring strain but is expected to be back and in the starting rotation on Sunday.

    Trade Comparisons

    A good place to start to figure out what it might cost to acquire Noah Syndergaard is by looking at some other trades for big-name starting pitchers with multiple years of control over recent years. We can start by looking at the Chris Archer trade. As many of you remember, the Twins were looking to trade for Archer before the 2018 season, yet luckily for them they didn’t because the Pittsburgh Pirates gave up an arm and a leg to get him. The headliners they sent back to the Tampa Bay Rays were Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows, both of whom were elite prospects who had just graduated to the MLB ranks. They also included right-hander Shane Baz, who at the time was the 95th ranked prospect in baseball, per MLB.com. At the time everyone said the Pirates gave up way too much for Archer, and in the year since looks like it might be one of the most lopsided trades in MLB history. I would be shocked if the Mets get anywhere close to that good of an offer for Syndergaard.

    Another trade in recent years to compare to is the Jose Quintana trade in 2017. At the time, Quintana was under contract for 3 1/2 more years at a very team friendly rate. To acquire Quintana from the Chicago White Sox, the Chicago Cubs gave up each of their top two prospects: Eloy Jimenez, who at the time was a top-10 prospect in baseball, along with Dylan Cease, who is one now of the top ranked prospects in baseball, and knocking on the MLB door. The Cubs also gave up two lower-tier prospects.

    At the times of their deals, both Archer and Quintana were similar pitchers in skill level to where Noah Syndergaard is now: not quite dominant aces, but good enough to be the number one starter on a team lacking an ace. Archer and Quintana both also had an additional year of control than Syndergaard would come with, and neither had quite the injury concerns that Syndergaard has.

    A couple other deals you can look at recently are the trades involving Chris Sale and Gerrit Cole. Though, it’s a little hard to compare a trade for Syndergaard with the Chris Sale trade since Syndergaard isn’t quite the same level pitcher Sale was at the time of that trade. The Gerrit Cole trade is also a little difficult to compare to, as the Astros traded away a bunch of players who were already MLB ready with relatively low upside. As we stand, it is hard to imaging the Twins trading away many MLB ready players with years of team control, unless they look to move someone like Luis Arraez, though I would be surprised if the Twins are at all interested in moving Arraez at this point.

    Building a Package

    If the Twins want to build a package to acquire Noah Syndergaard, it will almost certainly have to include either Royce Lewis or Alex Kirilloff. They could potentially try to build a package around Brusdar Graterol, but with him being shelved for over a month now with a shoulder injury, I can’t see the Mets willing to give up their prized pitcher for another pitcher with some shoulder issues. That being said, I’m sure many of you would like to see what a package not involving Lewis or Kirilloff would look like, so I will put one together for argument's sake.

    Disclaimer: I am not necessarily saying I would be willing to offer these deals for Syndergaard, this is simply an exercise examine what it might take to acquire Syndergaard.

    Let’s start by looking at a deal around former first overall draft pick Royce Lewis. There was a point earlier this year where Lewis was in the conversation for top prospect in baseball after players like Vlad Guerrero Jr., Fernando Tatis Jr., and the previously mentioned Eloy Jimenez graduated from the prospect rankings. However, a slow start to the season has brought Lewis’s value down a tick. For many Twins fans, a straight up trade Lewis for Syndergaard might be enough (or even too much), but I am here to tell you, that will not be the case. The Mets will most likely require at least one or two mid-to-lower level prospects in addition to Lewis to cover the risk in case he becomes a bust.

    Offer: Royce Lewis, Jorge Alcala & Chris Williams

    If the Twins are unwilling to part ways with Royce Lewis, they next place the Mets will turn to is Alex Kirilloff. If a deal were to get done, I see this as the most likely scenario. Kirilloff is without question the best hitting prospect in the Twins system and is arguably the best hitting prospect in the minor leagues right now period. He has had a slow start to 2019, but his bat should still be considered to be plus-plus. Where Kirilloff loses some value is on the defensive side of the ball. It is starting to look more and more that Kiriloff is destined to be either a slightly below-average corner outfielder, or a fulltime first-baseman. If the Twins deal for Syndergaard were to revolve around Kiriloff, they will most likely have to include another top tier prospect in order to get the deal done.

    Offer: Alex Kirilloff, Jordan Balazovic & Nick Gordon

    As I mentioned previously, it is unlikely that the Twins get a deal done without trading away either Lewis or Kirilloff, but If the Twins are dead set on not trading away either of those two, but still want to pursue a deal for Syndergaard, it is going to take a large haul of prospects. Fortunately for the Twins, they have a few other top tier prospects in their system, including three players in Brusdar Graterol, Trevor Larnach and Jordan Balazovic who are all currently ranked as Top 100 Prospects by both Baseball America and MLB.com. Asking the Twins to give up all three of these players will be a tall task, but that might be just what it takes if they want to pry Noah Syndergaard away from the Mets, who will without question be receiving offers from other teams that include a prospect or two that are more revered than any of these three.

    Offer: Brusdar Graterol, Trevor Larnach, Jordan Balazovic & Ben Rortvedt

    All three of these offers seem like they would be giving up a lot of prospect capital, but that is the nature of trading for All-Star starting pitchers with multiple years of team control. If you want to acquire them, it is going to cost you a lot. Let us know in the comments below what you think. Would you be willing to trade for Noah Syndergaard, and if so, what kind of package would you put together to trade for him?

    Today on Twins Daily

    MIN 10, CHW 3: Twins Hit 5 Homers, Kepler Reaches New Career High

    Potential Twins Bullpen Target: Sergio Romo, RHP, Marlins

    Adrianza Returns, Hopes To Remain Hot With Bat

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    If this site is only a week old, how can it be considered "remarkably accurate?"

    Check out the podcast with the creator of the site, John Bitzer. He was a guest on Effectively Wild by Fangraphs. They took previous trades that were executed and ran it through their simulator and the scores came up out fairly even.  Almost all, if not all GMs incorporate something similar when working out trades so it is a fun tool to have as a fan.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Syndergaard’s nice, but kinda overrated. Why not just go after Wheeler instead? Wouldn’t cost us all that much, and if he performs well, the FO can always bring him back on an Eovaldi-like deal in the offseason.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    There was a new site launched this week and discussed on a recent Fangraphs podcast. It built an value system for all players to help develop a fair trade. It is remarkably accurate.

     

    www.baseballtradevalues.com

    With regard to accuracy, I don't see enough examples to rule out cherry-picking. Did they evaluate the recent Encarnacion trade, for instance?

     

    I'll speculate that what it accurately reflects is the state of the art with respect to amateur analytics. That's not nothing. It's also not gospel.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don’t know if Syndegaard is the right guy but all prospects should be in play with the possible exception of Graterol and Balazovic

    Yeah. I’m fine with spending prospects but if we are talking about two of our best prospects, that wouldn’t be for Syndergaard imo

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I’m keeping Lewis but willing to part with Kirilloff, Graterol, and another low minor arm (though there are some minors pitchers I would prefer to keep).

    I have very little to base this on, but my gut tells me that insiders do not have Kirilloff rated as high as the national list makers do.

    I think Kirilloff has a better future than Lewis.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I checked what it will take to get Bumgarner and Smith from the Giants and Larnach was more than enough according to that site...

     

    I go my doubts about the accuracy of that site ;)

    I agree about the accuracy of the site, although Bumgarner and Smith are rentals. The site does suggest that the Twins could get Luis Castillo (the pitcher) and Raisel Iglesias for a package of Kirilloff, Duran and Gordon. May have to add a lottery ticket or two, but both have multiple years of control. Would you do that?
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Any trade that requires any of Lewis, Graterol, Kirilloff or Balazovic, my answer is no.  Probably means the trade including one of the above will happen tomorrow.

     

    But I do doubt something like this will happen.  The reason is that even though this team is on fire, I think Management believes they are still building towards a future a few years out.

    I'd add Arraez to the list just because I am very wary of Thor now.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The Twins need to take advantage of this season.

     

    The future is too hard to project. While the Indians look like they might be retooling, the White Sox may take a huge step forward with their young starting pitching and some key young position players.

     

    The Twins need to be aggressive and get a playoff caliber starting pitcher as well as a late inning reliever this month even if it costs a prized prospect.

    Edited by jorgenswest
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Agreed.  I'm doubtful that Thor is that guy at least this season.  Could he get over the recent injuries and be dominant again?  Don't know.  But if the objective is getting a TOR starter or close to it, he isn't it now.  He's middling as a 3rd-4th starter with an ERA over 4 in the NL.  Just not getting it done.

     

    No better Scandihoovian type to wear a Twins jersey - looks like a Viking but I'm passing.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    It will be interesting how the agent turned GM will approach the trade deadline.  Especially after how aggressive he was going all in during the offseason. He was pretty strict about winning now and probably has the same mentality about 2020.

     

    I'm guessing its rentals only from them, Frazier, Vargas, Wheeler, etc.

    Edited by SomeGuy
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Let's see what Wes Johnson can do with all these young minor league pitchers who are already in the Twins' system. But before I traded any minor league players, I would re-read the recent article on the Twins minor league players who will be rule 5 eligible and try to trade low ceiling , Rule 5 eligible players and low ceiling players on the 40 man roster. Low ceiling. Rule 5. 40 man roster. A thousand points of light.

    Edited by tarheeltwinsfan
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    It will almost definitely have to include Lewis. There was a new site launched this week and discussed on a recent Fangraphs podcast. It built an value system for all players to help develop a fair trade. It is remarkably accurate.

     

    www.baseballtradevalues.com

     

    Based on the site, Lewis/Rooker/Arraez should get it done. 

    That's a cool site, and it's certainly better to use that as a rough estimator of trade packages than simply packaging all of the Twins injured or under-performing minor leaguers.

     

    But that site can't account for context. Just because the White Sox traded Sale for prospect package X doesn't mean another team will trade a pitcher equivalent to Sale for an equivalent prospect package Y. The White Sox were in a position where they valued the prospects more than Sale; the Mets, Reds, and Nationals probably aren't.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Only pitcher I'd trade multiple high prospects for is Max Scherzer and.....well that's about it. I'd have a hard time giving up Lewis and/or Kiriloff for a pitcher that hasn't shown he can pitch 30+ starts consistently.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    There is an awful lot of concern that a 26-year-old, who was formerly one of the best pitchers in all of baseball, is too risky to take a chance on, which seems short-sighted to me.

     

    The Mets are not exactly a cutting-edge organization. They just hired an 82-year-old as their new pitching coach. I would be willing to see what the Twins organization is able to do with Syndergaard to help him return to his previous form. If anything, the Twins might be buying low on a guy who has yet to realize his full potential, and has team control remaining.

     

    Wes Johnson helped turn Martin Perez into a serviceable (above average?) starting pitcher this season. I have faith Syndergaard would see improvement with the Twins as well.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Re: www.baseballtradevalues.com

     

    FWIW, they currently assign Pressly a $27.4 mil median trade value, versus $4.5 mil combined for Alcala and Celestino. :)

     

    Yes, I know that includes Pressly's extension. Looking at relievers currently controlled for 1.5 years:

     

    Yates 18

    Giles 10.7

    Greene 9.6

    Colome 6.5

    Jared Hughes 2.2

    Dyson 0.3

     

    I wouldn't have put Pressly last year as high as Yates, but probably close to the Greene/Giles neighborhood (Pressly's salary was cheaper than both).

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

     If anything, the Twins might be buying low on a guy who has yet to realize his full potential, and has team control remaining.

    That assumes the Mets are willing to sell low. Especially given their circumstances, where they're already invested in competing now and the foreseeable future, I don't think they will.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    There is an awful lot of concern that a 26-year-old, who was formerly one of the best pitchers in all of baseball, is too risky to take a chance on, which seems short-sighted to me.

     

    The Mets are not exactly a cutting-edge organization. They just hired an 82-year-old as their new pitching coach. I would be willing to see what the Twins organization is able to do with Syndergaard to help him return to his previous form. If anything, the Twins might be buying low on a guy who has yet to realize his full potential, and has team control remaining.

     

    Wes Johnson helped turn Martin Perez into a serviceable (above average?) starting pitcher this season. I have faith Syndergaard would see improvement with the Twins as well.

    I will add to the fact that some of the offers people are making are so ridiculously low it would be a slap in the face to the Mets.

    It would be like somebody calling the Twins and offering Graterol, Gonsalves, Gordon and Stewart for Berrios and telling the Twins they are getting an amazing deal.(you know because like 3 years ago these guys were top 5 team prospects)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    That assumes the Mets are willing to sell low. Especially given their circumstances, where they're already invested in competing now and the foreseeable future, I don't think they will.

    Why would the Mets sell low? controllable 26/27 year old pitcher with a career WAR of 12.7 (almost twice that of Berrios) not to mention throws in the upper 90's?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    That assumes the Mets are willing to sell low. Especially given their circumstances, where they're already invested in competing now and the foreseeable future, I don't think they will.

     

    The Mets would be selling lower right now than what it would have cost to acquire him 2 years ago. The asking price is going to be steep, and I wasn't trying to imply the Mets will just give him away. With the amount of team control remaining, the Mets need a significant offer to even consider it. My comment was meant to imply the Twins would be trading for someone who has a higher ceiling than what we have seen from him yet, hence the "buying low".

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Probably easier to just taste in your twins gear and cheer for the Mets...

     

    Any team with degrom, thor, and wheeler has a chance if they get can get in. And if not, that's not a tear-down. That's a keep adding scenario. Only way to get Degrom or Thor is to offer multiple prospects who figure to be at least that good in the next couple years. I don't think we have any players like that. Not even Lewis.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    He is 26 and has been as good if not better than Cole. If people aren't willing to trade for him, there isn't anybody they would be willing to trade for.

    Nitpic: He's almost 27.

     

    The problem, of course ,is everything is trending the wrong way with Syndergaard.

     

    If you pay for the Syndergaard of 2016, there's a pretty reasonable chance you will be disappointed. 

     

    I'm all for trading for help, and depending on the price, wouldn't be opposed to Syndergaard. But I'm just not sure the substance is greater than the name. And I don't think he's been better than Cole. Cole's a year older, but has been much healthier, for one thing. 

     

    So yeah...trade for Syndergaard. But only if you can get him for what he's likely worth.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Nitpic: He's almost 27.

     

    The problem, of course ,is everything is trending the wrong way with Syndergaard.

     

    If you pay for the Syndergaard of 2016, there's a pretty reasonable chance you will be disappointed. 

     

    I'm all for trading for help, and depending on the price, wouldn't be opposed to Syndergaard. But I'm just not sure the substance is greater than the name. And I don't think he's been better than Cole. Cole's a year older, but has been much healthier, for one thing. 

     

    So yeah...trade for Syndergaard. But only if you can get him for what he's likely worth.

    He is will be 27 in August.

    To clarify I meant better than Cole when Pit traded him.

    I agree "pretty reasonable chance you will be disappointed.", but I would add there is a larger chance we will be disappointed in the players that weren't traded.

    Edited by Tomj14
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I would be shocked if the Mets traded Thor. But it would be amazing if we could land him, and have him and Berrios as our 1-2 punches in a playoff push...as well as for the next 2 years. 

     

    A trade might look something like this:

    (Mets choose 1 player from each pool)

     

    1-Lewis or Kiriloff

    2-Graterol or Balazovic

    3-Arraez or Gordon

     

    We have the depth to do this, along with trading for 2 relief pieces. If you don't go all in now, when? 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I would be shocked if the Mets traded Thor. But it would be amazing if we could land him, and have him and Berrios as our 1-2 punches in a playoff push...as well as for the next 2 years. 

     

    A trade might look something like this:

    (Mets choose 1 player from each pool)

     

    1-Lewis or Kiriloff

    2-Graterol or Balazovic

    3-Arraez or Gordon

     

    We have the depth to do this, along with trading for 2 relief pieces. If you don't go all in now, when? 

    based on fan graphs board (link from Mike)
    https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2019-in-season-prospect-list?sort=-1,1&team=min

     

    The left hand side is Twins 1,3, 6 prospect

    The right hand side is 2, 11, 20

    Which would mean by fan graphs ranking the two options are not close.

    the right hand side should have Javier (5) or Miranda (9) because he is also a second basemen like Arraez and Duran (7) instead of Balazovic and Gordon.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    The Twins need to take advantage of this season.

    The future is too hard to project. While the Indians look like they might be retooling, the White Sox may take a huge step forward with their young starting pitching and some key young position players.

    The Twins need to be aggressive and get a playoff caliber starting pitcher as well as a late inning reliever this month even if it costs a prized prospect.

     

    Not to mention 3/5 of the rotation are FAs, as are some hitters. Oh, and they could lose their best players to injury next year. We all thought the M&M boys would carry this team for a long time, but health stopped that......

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...