Free Agent Faceoff: Madison Bumgarner Is Not Who You Think He Is Edition

Homer Bailey? Ew, gross!

Great article!  Lets not pay up for historic excellence!!!  I see Littlell, Bodnak and Smeltzer as all having significant potential as mid-level starters, with Little having the most potential based on extensive success and innings in the minors!  I have not seen whether the Twins are thinking about stretching him out for a trial as a starter?

I won't be unhappy if Bumgarner is never a Twin. I could handle a Tehran signing. Maybe they heavily pursue Strasburg. But please lets stay away from Homer Bailey. Last season WAS his bounce back season, and it still wasn't very good. Homer Bailey stinks.

Only looking at 2019 is disingenuous. Last year was the first full year for Bum since 2016. He is 30. A 5 year $100 Million might do it, and if he returns to form it is a steal. Buy low if he's healthy. Teheran is consistent. I'd consider a nice 3-4 year deal for him too. He isn't a front of the rotation guy, but will help get to the playoffs.

Was just looking at Johnny Cueto's numbers https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuetojo01.shtml, a good cautionary tale on paying big money for past performance for 30ish pitchers with lots of mileage on the arm.

Not that I wouldn't welcome MB to the Twins with open arms.

This article seems a little dark, even for you Tom .

Thanks for this article!  My gut just doesn't think Bumgarner will be worth the money he will be getting.  At this point I don't think there is a way to get value out of a Bumgarner signing.  I like him but if it takes 20M a year AAV for 4 or 5 years I don't see him living up to that.  Maybe I am wrong and he will rebound and be great the next couple of years but something tells me he more likely is who he is at this point than who he was before.  If he is who he is then our number 5 starters are almost as good.

Bumgarner is not as good as Wheeler. We went 5/100 on him. 4/76 is where I'd go on madbum. I could see a 5th year if it was a team option of 19mil with a 2-3mil buyout.

But our AAV offer to Bumgarner should be less than Wheeler imo.

I would hate to be the team that gives him the 4 year deal for close to 100M. Those last 2 years would be hard to swallow.

Great article. The Twins need to offer Cole $245/7yrs. Done.

If that doesn't work, sign Bumgarner for $90/4yrs and Teheran for $16/2 yrs and Wood for $16/2yrs. The paradigm of rational thought takes a break this winter because starting pitching is dear right now. A Cole (or the other scenario) signing finishes the front office' job for now. The Twins can rotate Garver, Gonzalez, and others through 1B. This is their one shot - the core gets supplemented and the young pups get a year to develop. 

I stand corrected Madbum Schmadbum. Sign the Ayatollah guy from Teheran!

I would much rather see the Twins sign Ryu than Bumgarner. Ryu is in his prime and could have a breakout season anytime. Bumgarner is past his prime and is starting to regress. As for Bailey and Teheran forget about 'em. Neither one is an improvement over what we had. Remember, they said they were going to go after "Impact Pitching". So far they have gotten ZERO of that.

So they offered 100M to Wheeler. Offers don't mean crap if the guy doesn't sign.

I’ve never had any expectations that Bumgarner will ever be more than a three from now on. I said that when people wanted to trade for him during the deadline. We all would obviously want him to be better than that, but it’s probably not likely.

I prefer Ryu (I actually prefer both Ryu AND Bumgarner), but Bumgarner would be an improvement on having two rookies in the rotation. Sign one. Sign both. Don’t strike out on both unless that means you nabbed Cole or Strasburg instead.

I don’t think Madbum would fare very well in an AL stadium with a short porch in LF.

Ever since Gleeman attempted to enlightened everyone to the reality of Madbum around the trade deadline, I’ve been anti Madbum.

This is all relative, of course. Get him on a 1-2 year deal for #3 money, I’m all in. Paying him $20 million/year for 4/5 years, given how that would totally hamstring this FO going forward.....awful move.

If I knew I was a fan of a club that was passionate about investing in a quality on-field product, I’d think it’s a risk worth taking. But, I’m guessing it’ll the the last “big splash” signing for some time with a lot of younger guys needing extensions in the near future (Berrios, Buxton, possibly more). I’d rather it be a player that is a known commodity. Not a prayer of a return to 4 years ago.

FWIW, on the last Gleeman and the Geek, Aaron stated he had heard rumors that the Twins may be higher on Ryu than Bumgarner. He was clear there was nothing definitive however. Just thought I'd toss it out there.

I know it's just one system and is an inexact science but . . . Steamer projects Bumgarner and Thorpe to have nearly identical run prevention skills in 2020 (Thorpe actually a little better). It's hard not to look at that and get a bit queasy at the thought of paying $20 million + per year. 

I would much rather see the Twins sign Ryu than Bumgarner. 

WHAT THIS GUY SAID.

Just sign him.  He is a vet, he has pride and experience and those were AL teams he whipped in the WS.  Let's not give the team an excuse.  It is time to sign someone. 

I would much rather see the Twins sign Ryu than Bumgarner. Ryu is in his prime and could have a breakout season anytime.  

 

14-5, 182 innings,  2.32 ERA,  Runner up for Cy Young.       I can't tell if you were joking or if you didn't consider 2019 to be a break out season.    He's two years older than Bumgarner.    The more I look at his stats the more I wonder why we would want Wheeler, Bumgarten, or Hamels or even Strasberg over him.   

I’m not so sure that Teheran and Bailey having given up more hits to pitchers than Bumgarner is an argument in their favor.

To add to Mike - It doesn't matter that the money is crazy. The money is almost irrelevant. The Twins can easily spend $140M and still (will) turn a profit. The core team is ready. I can agree that a failure to score runs in the playoffs last year was problematic but that is over. The Twins need pitching. Thorpe or Wood or Teheran and possibly someone else might be as good as Bumgarner. So what! sign all three (W,T, for $36M. Better yet, sign Cole. The money will not hamstring the Twins in future years. That much money and more comes off the books next year and the kids are coming and they are inexpensive. The time has come.

I think they need to trade for the ace that is sorely needed.  Bumgarner is a solid pitcher with a ton of xp but he isn't going to be worth the contract he gets in this market.

Getting an arm with #1 upside is going to hurt incredibly bad weather you sign it or trade for it.  Cole and Strasburg aren't going to choose MN over the west coast or NY offering a similar deal, Bumgarner/ Ryu/ Wheeler are getting heavy overpays for being the second tier that is available to everyone.  

Its going to cost one if not multiple of Buxton/ Kirloff/ Larnach/ Lewis/ Balzovic/ Graterol but I don't see another way to get the arm they need without lighting payroll on fire (which they don't appear ready to do).  It will hurt, bad, but this teams window is open and its time to spend the future on it.  

I think they need to trade for the ace that is sorely needed.  Bumgarner is a solid pitcher with a ton of xp but he isn't going to be worth the contract he gets in this market.

 

Getting an arm with #1 upside is going to hurt incredibly bad weather you sign it or trade for it.  Cole and Strasburg aren't going to choose MN over the west coast or NY offering a similar deal, Bumgarner/ Ryu/ Wheeler are getting heavy overpays for being the second tier that is available to everyone.  

 

Its going to cost one if not multiple of Buxton/ Kirloff/ Larnach/ Lewis/ Balzovic/ Graterol but I don't see another way to get the arm they need without lighting payroll on fire (which they don't appear ready to do).  It will hurt, bad, but this teams window is open and its time to spend the future on it.  

Who is this arm that they can trade for? The contenders that have good pitching want more of it not less. The non-contenders have very little in the way of quality to offer. The d'backs may be willing to move Robbie Ray. But he has yet to really prove himself an frontend SP. And I'd hate to give up the guys you mention for 1 season of him.

The FO failed to get a front end guy during the 2019 season. I guess I have little confidence they will do so now.

Two of the pitchers are pretty much in 2019 who they are, The orher one the question is "Is that what he has become?"

The thing is someone will pay for Bumgarner. Do you think he has enough upside to go multiple years (like 4 or 5). 

It's all a gamble. But if you don't grab him,does someone in your division or league grab him and have the upside. The downside is that he bombs. Hopefully he doesn't in year one or two, which means he is still tradable and that "second place bidder" could still be someone to take his conract off your hands, plus give you something for the future.

Yes, you are out a prospect and also money.

Right now the Twins are banking on Odorizzi and Pineda being better than they were in 2019, or at least the same (we lose Pineda on the front end rather than the back end this year). Berrios should be better, and the Twins need to sign him up longer term.

SO, how can you prove on Gibson and Perez? Getting two experienced arms can go a long way in this scenario,as youcan use the "Pineda-time" to look at Dobnak, Smeltzer, Thorpe and, perhaps, Graterol, as starters for the future, someoneto replace Odorizzi in 2020. None of thise names NEEDS to pitch fulltime in the majors in 2020, but will have opportunities, hopefully, to face major league batters at some point and still work on their stuff to dominate at AAA.