Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Draft Preview: Greene Hits 100


    Jeremy Nygaard

    If you fast-forward four months… you’ll still be waiting another week for the draft to happen and there will still be plenty of uncertainty about what will happen as the Twins approach the podium to announce the first overall draft pick. They’ll also draft 35th, thanks to a competitive balance comp pick, and 37th, when the second round begins.

    Image courtesy of photo Hunter Greene by Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

    Twins Video

    The Twins will have the largest bonus pool at their disposal (nearly $13.5 million), but won’t have the ability to “play the draft” as others have in the past. Comparing the last two drafts, the first pick this year has $7.4 million tied to it, a dramatic decrease from last year’s $9 million and change. The first overall pick this year is twice the slot of the 13th pick; last year the first pick was worth twice as much as the fifth pick. These changes that have happened in the new CBA put a direct damper on teams trying to tank for the first pick (or, more specifically, the money tied to the first pick).

    Gone are the days when a team could cut a deal with a player (or two) and use those savings on a third player who miraculously drops in the draft. In 2015, the Astros, owning the second, fifth and thirty-seventh picks were able to hand out three of the highest six bonuses.

    Don’t misunderstand, some players will still sign underslot and some will still sign for overslot. It’s just not going to be the same as it was before. And that directly impacts the Twins.

    Fortunately, despite all the changes, the Twins will still pick first and still have their choice of all the players available. And there are some good ones.

    You probably saw the Keith Law tweet on Friday night that California prep RHP Hunter Greene hit 100 mph. (Or if you bought the Twins Prospect Handbook, you read there that he’s touched 100 mph before.)

    Law’s tweet really got Twitter going though.

    But according to a source in California, Greene touched 102 mph last week and has demonstrated improved command of his entire four-pitch arsenal. Over 60 scouts witnessed Friday’s tilt, where Greene also showed his ability to hit.

    2/7 Update: Was able to talk to another source who was at the game. Said Greene touched 101 on Friday night and that his slider "was better". The slider is the aforementioned "fourth pitch" to go with his curveball and change. The Twins are believed to have had three scouts in attendance.

    The state of Minnesota swooned.

    Greene has become the fan’s early favorite to be selected first overall. But will the front office decide this is the year where a prep right-handed pitcher finally goes first overall? Only time will tell.

    If not, there are plenty of other options. The college season hasn’t gotten underway yet, but Vanderbilt OF Jeren Kendall is a polished, five-tool prospect who deserves to be in the conversation. The Twins are enamored with the college pitching class which includes RHP Alex Faedo, Florida; RHP Kyle Wright, Vanderbilt; RHP J.B. Bukauskas, North Carolina; and RHP Alex Lange, LSU; among others.

    There are other preps to consider too and one of the names at the top of the list is California prep SS Royce Lewis. Lewis headlines a fairly deep group of prep hitters and is out to prove he can play the most difficult position in baseball. He has played third base, deferring to upperclassmen, but is making the move to shortstop this spring. Some scouts also believe his future home might be in centerfield. If there’s one thing the old regime loved: it’s toolsy preps such as Lewis.

    Other notes:

    Christopher Crawford, who formerly wrote for ESPN, is now posting draft info at Hero Sports. You can read more on both Lewis and Alex Faedo there.

    Full draft slots and pick values can be found at Baseball America. It’s a place worth bookmarking.

    You can see what’s changed since I wrote up and even earlier draft piece in October.

    And going back even further, here’s a link to the Twins Daily Draft Preview of Baseball America’s #1 Prospect, Andrew Benintendi.

    The college baseball season kicks off soon. Be sure to check back for updates on your (potentially new) favorite players.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

     

    Jeremy, whoever the twins take at #1 will be a very good prospect. With the way slitting works now, what are the chances that someone who is highly ranked (think top 15) can fall to 35 or 37? It's not like the Twins will have to use their entire slot on whoever they take at #1, right? I know it isn't as large a pool as before, but there has to be some chance of using that slot money to an advantage, right?

     

    I would think of it like that... and more of it as, with the potential savings at #1, expand your options in rounds 5-11. Similar to what the Twins did with Benninghoff last draft. Turn your 11th rounder into a 3rd/4th rounder. Only now maybe you save enough to add another Top 50 talent or a couple more Top 100 talents.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Jeremy, follow up; What do you think of Griffin Canning out of UCLA? As of 2/7/17, he is the pitcher I am really hoping falls to 35. UCLA has really turned out some good starters in recent years, and he has a good build, some above average pitches according to mlbpipeline, and has solid command.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Jeremy, follow up; What do you think of Griffin Canning out of UCLA? As of 2/7/17, he is the pitcher I am really hoping falls to 35. UCLA has really turned out some good starters in recent years, and he has a good build, some above average pitches according to mlbpipeline, and has solid command.

     

    Don't know much about him besides he's an undersized righty. So I could see him dropping out of the first round.

     

    There will be a heavy presence at Greene's games, so making a 20 minute trip down the 405 to the UCLA campus isn't out of the question. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Really? I thought he was the consensus top pick at this point in 2009. Who didn't have him ranked #1?

     

    Yeah. I'm pretty sure Strasburg was the goal from the start to finish of the 2009 season. 

     

    I remember when Strasburg, Kyle Gibson and Matt Harvey were considered the best three pitchers in college baseball.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    There have been plenty of flame-throwing prep right-handers before. If there's a college starter that projects as a near-term, top of the rotation guy, I take him over Greene without hesitation. 

    On the flip side, there have been lots of college starters that projected to be top-of-the-rotation guys that failed to pan out. Appel, Miller, Matusz, et al. Jury is still out with Gray, Cole and Gausman. I'm not sure the data are stronger one direction or the other.

     

    Fortunately, the Twins still have several months to collect more information on these players. I'm definitely not a draft historian, but it certainly seems from what I've read that Greene is on a different level than most former top HS pitchers. He is way more athletic than Kolek, and it sounds like he has a lot more velocity than guys like Stewart, Aiken. In fact, I'm not sure even Giolito and Taillon regularly reached triple-digits. Anyway, I'd love to see a long-time draft guru (like Law or Callis, for example) write a post comparing/contrasting Greene to other top HS pitchers.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    On the flip side, there have been lots of college starters that projected to be top-of-the-rotation guys that failed to pan out. Appel, Miller, Matusz, et al. Jury is still out with Gray, Cole and Gausman. I'm not sure the data are stronger one direction or the other.

     

    Fortunately, the Twins still have several months to collect more information on these players. I'm definitely not a draft historian, but it certainly seems from what I've read that Greene is on a different level than most former top HS pitchers. He is way more athletic than Kolek, and it sounds like he has a lot more velocity than guys like Stewart, Aiken. In fact, I'm not sure even Giolito and Taillon regularly reached triple-digits. Anyway, I'd love to see a long-time draft guru (like Law or Callis, for example) write a post comparing/contrasting Greene to other top HS pitchers.

     

    Sure, college picks are risky too, or teams would never take high schoolers. The 2006 draft is a good example, it went (position added for potentially unfamiliar names):

     

    Luke Hochevar

    Greg Reynolds (college RHP)

    Evan Longoria

    Brad Lincoln

    Brandon Morrow

    Andrew Miller

    Clayton Kershaw

    Drew Stubbs

    Billy Rowell (HS 3B)

    Tim Lincecum

    Max Scherzer

     

    So, not only was the best pitcher taken 7th overall out of high school, but the college picks didn't exactly pan out in the order selected, either. So really it comes down to some combination of performing the right scouting/analysis and getting lucky.

     

    My point is just that, if Greene offers a little extra potential but one of the college guys is right there with him, plus 2-3 years closer to MLB, I want the guy that's closer and has thrown more innings in a season without breaking down.

     

    I definitely do not want Brad Lincoln. But if there's a college guy with power stuff + command . . .

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I suspect that with Greene it will be all about his secondary pitches, which he really doesn't need in HS.

     

    If he wants be drafted #1 he is going to have to display his entire arsenal. If the secondary pitches look good I will be interested to see the reviews. I expect the word 'rave' to apply.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I would like to see a college arm step up but it is hard not to like what Greene has to offer. Does anyone have any info on Shane Baz?  Could he be in play at 35/37?  If they take Greene do they try to get college arms in those spots?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Is Greene really 2-3 years behind a college pitcher? 

    It may be that as good as he is, he may arrive a fair bit quicker. . . 

    I am hoping to see Greene in a Twins uniform by July, 2020.

     

    In 2011 Gerrit Cole went first overall after three years at UCLA and debuted on June 11, 2013 at age 22.

     

    Safe pick Danny Hultzen never made an MLB appearance.

     

    Cole's college teammate, Trevor Bauer, debuted June 28, 2012. 

     

    The first high school pitcher taken, Dylan Bundy, debuted in September of 2012.

     

    The best pitcher of the class, the late Jose Fernandez, debuted in April of 2013.

     

    Obviously circumstances have changed with major league deals being eliminated, but there's really little difference between high school and college pitchers (IN THIS PARTICULAR DRAFT). If the Twins brass believes that Greene is the best player available, I'd have a hard time believing he's "two or three years" behind the college guys. 

     

    I'm not suggesting he'll skip the minor leagues all together. But heck, Kevin Gausman was RUSHED to the major leagues in 2013 and didn't really become a rotation regular until May of 2014 and Berrios, I think we can all agreed, was slow-played and he debuted in May of 2016. That's 2-3 years and I don't see that happening in Greene vs The College Pitchers.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I suspect that with Greene it will be all about his secondary pitches, which he really doesn't need in HS.

     

    If he wants be drafted #1 he is going to have to display his entire arsenal. If the secondary pitches look good I will be interested to see the reviews. I expect the word 'rave' to apply.

     

    Agreed.

    But the point is that his secondary pitches are not that good.  He throws an average slurve that he has a hard time commanding and he is learning a changeup that looks pretty awful right now.   All you hear about is the fastball's velocity.

     

    One pitch pony, and if that pitch is the FB, no matter how good it is, too much of a risk to be taken at 1-1.  

    Edited by Thrylos
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Agreed.

    But the point is that his secondary pitches are not that good.  He throws an average slurve that he has a hard time commanding and he is learning a changeup that looks pretty awful right now.   All you hear about is the fastball's velocity.

     

    One pitch pony, and if that pitch is the FB, no matter how good it is, too much of a risk to be taken at 1-1.

     

    You are the only person I have read anywhere that is down on Greene. It just astounds me that you aren't taking projection and potential into account.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    Agreed.

    But the point is that his secondary pitches are not that good.  He throws an average slurve that he has a hard time commanding and he is learning a changeup that looks pretty awful right now.   All you hear about is the fastball's velocity.

     

    One pitch pony, and if that pitch is the FB, no matter how good it is, too much of a risk to be taken at 1-1.  

     

    This is his write-up from MLB.com on his secondary stuff. The slider is new, so they didn't say anything about it: 

     

    "Greene backs that up with a quality breaking ball that is really sharp. His changeup is his third pitch, but he has a feel for it."

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    You are the only person I have read anywhere that is down on Greene. It just astounds me that you aren't taking projection and potential into account.

     

    I do take projection and potential into account :)

     

    But an 1-1 pick better be the real thing and Greene just is too risky for me.  I need to see at least 2 decent secondary offerings and Greene is not there.  He might be by draft time, or he might not.  Good risk for mid 1st round, but if the only things you read are radar readings and "life in his fastball", caveat emptor  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

     

    I do take projection and potential into account :)

     

    But an 1-1 pick better be the real thing and Greene just is too risky for me.  I need to see at least 2 decent secondary offerings and Greene is not there.  He might be by draft time, or he might not.  Good risk for mid 1st round, but if the only things you read are radar readings and "life in his fastball", caveat emptor  

     

    I just, has there ever been a high school pitcher, or player, who is a finished product? All prospects are projectability and potential. If someone at age 17 (which he will be until August) shows any feel at all for secondary pitchers (which is being reported) shouldn't we take into account that the plan would be that 4 years from now, at age 21, he will have had proper development to really harness that stuff he has to be able to compete at a major league level? That is the hope, right? The Twins aren't drafting him to be in their major league rotation at age 18. They are drafting him because with the right development, his build/maturity/current pitchability plus projected pitchability may equate to a top of the line starter in 3-4 years.

    To say that a 17 year old is a finished project and will not develop their talents at all in the next 3 years just doesn't make sense to me.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Reached out to someone else who saw Greene last Friday. He said Greene's secondary stuff is his "biggest crack." No surprise there. He also praised Greene's coaching staff. That's something you have to take into account when trying to project these kids. 

     

    And brought up Royce Lewis unprompted. 

     

    It's going to be an interesting spring.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    This guy sounds like our best shot at an ace. I really haven't heard much about this years college pitchers until the recent draft boards. If they had ace potential we'd of heard about them long before now. Remember how much you heard about Rodon in the years before he was drafted? Sure he slid a bit, the potential was always there.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...