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The team woes start with the Manager. Playing Sano is a mistake. The guys needs to be DFA'd. Batting Arraez 6th is a mistake. He should always be batting in front of Buxton. How many of Buxtons solo shots would be 2 or 3 run homers if Rocco knew how to set a lineup? Ryan gives up 10 runs only due to Roccos inability to in-game manage. He'll pull a starter who's at 80 pitches and pitching with the lead and then leaves Ryan in when he clearly doesn't have his best stuff to get hammered and make the game a blowout basically giving the team no chance to come back and win it. I said before the All-Star game this team was toast. Thanks to Rocco, the toast is burning.

Did we all see what the M’s gave up for Castillo? We’d have to completely gut our prospect list to get to that level - and we need 3-4 Castillo types to realistically have any chance to contend. The data points are there. It’s ok to take a step back and reevaluate where this team truly stands with a clear mind and open eyes. Sure - we are clinging to a rapidly evaporating division lead. But we are obviously more than one or two players away. Our window should be more open next year and then the following year than it is now. Any moves we make should be to enhance that realisation, not jeopardise it. Watching last night’s game, I was dumbfounded and saddened to see Rocco leave our top young starter in to give up 10 runs. After Machado it was perfectly clear to everyone it was not Ryan’s night. Rocco leaves him in to get battered for four more runs to get one more out. That was inexcusable. I hope Ryan can either forget or learn from that. Psyche’s in young pitchers can be tricky. Looking for a strong rebound game today!

I agree with most everything, except for possibly one item. I hear lots of folks here and elsewhere talk about '23 and beyond, and how that may be our window realistically rather than the here and now. What is it that leads to that conclusion? The left side of our infield may very well be gone, our outfield won't be any better than it is now, the catching situation isn't playoff contending caliber as of now, or next year. And the pitching staff is counting on young, unproven guys to step up and seize the day up and down the staff, not to mention (but we always have to on this team) trying to stay off the IL. There will be things that are better, and things that are good now but gone soon. Overall, how are we contenders in the coming couple of years where we aren't now? I guess why I am not feeling the love is because I hear all about the guys coming up through the system that are going to step up and step into the areas we need. And in the same conversation I hear we haven't got enough high end prospects to put into trades to help us now and still have something left to bring up when the needs come in the next couple of years. Which is it? Are we good in the system with good up and coming players, or are the cupboards bare to the point that we can't compete in trade talks? Because if what we see is what we get in the immediate future I would like to take the kind of shot Seattle just did. Or at the very least, if we are not going to compete on that level, make the FO be up front and honest about it. Not that there is much chance of this pair being honest about anything, but at least put the pressure on.

I am serious: go back to putting innings on these guys in the minors. Like they used to. I don't know if it'll keep more guys healthy, but it certainly can't keep LESS guys healthy. And Maybe they can wash out the guys who just can't handle any kind of workload. I mean, the entire injury thing is just to the point of ridiculousness. Current theory clearly isn't working.

Least we forget Pagan would have been an All Star if not for all the bad outings he had.

In Joe Ryan’s defense, trying to pitch to Padres batters wearing those uniforms would have been a challenge for anyone.

Years ago, my wife and I took a trip to Cedar Rapids to see the number one prospect Byron Buxton. Jose Berrios was pitching that day. Yet, the future Twins player who impressed us the most that day was Jorge Polanco. He has never been under our radar since.

I've seen Stranger Things than a starting pitcher allowing 10 runs in a game...

Attention should rightfully be on the health of these athletes. I do wonder when there is a return to an emphasis on leg strength gained from running Interesting fact: Nolan Ryan's post-game routine after pitching: 60 minutes of intense stationary bike workout. Every time-every game. Said it was to keep his legs strong for 9 inning games.

Good luck to him. Sigh.

Rocco was playing the long game there. Duffey, in to pitch the ninth with a reasonably safe lead. He gets into his usual antics, walking a #8 hitter and plunking the #9. HR predictably comes next. No worries. He gets the next two guys out. Pitch count 28. Unavailable to mess up tomorrow's game. Rocco's playing chess while you're busy playing checkers.

For Sano that few Ks in 6 games would be breaking out of a slump

You know I am comfortable with analytics, and I know it's a bit of waving a red flag for you, but bear with me. I believe that analytics is worthless unless it is integrated with deep insight in the fundamentals, which you are talking about. I am convinced that injury-proneness is one of the metrics that teams' baseball analytics staffs study, as some kind of secret sauce that isn't publicized and is treated as trade-secret - and some teams do it manifestly better than others. The Yankees in 2022 have been deprived of almost no starts (6 out of 101) among the five guys they decided in on spring. The Twins should be studying them carefully to understand this success. Talent evaluation and acquisition, and injury avoiding practices adopted by on-field coaches and off-field trainers - these tie together at every step of the roster construction process in the majors, and in player development in the minors. Our FO seems to believe there is a market inefficiency they can exploit by accepting a higher degree of risk with arms, and I certainly don't have the inside analytics to suggest where exactly it is they get it wrong. But acquiring non-workhorse front line pitching like Sonny Gray, and known injury risk Chris Paddack, in return for key trading chips, and counting on past injury risks like Winder and Ober, demonstrate well enough for me where their priorities lie: keep 24 pitchers on the 40-man and go light on position players, then deal with injuries as they arise through roster churn. Handing the ball twice (!) to a non-entity like Chi Chi Gonzalez demonstrates the failure of this approach, as far as I'm concerned. Good analytics looks for relationships among pieces that may be treated as independent. Your suggestion to increase the workload on the young arms might be at odds with the Twins philosophy under Wes Johnson to wring a few extra MPH from arms. But maybe the Twins have the balance wrong, and should be looking for whatever (few) extra MPH they can extract while keeping the workload higher. You can't sell out totally to workload, by soft-tossing the entire 7 or 8 or 9 innings - you have to get the maximum number of guys out while giving up the fewest baserunners and runs - but max-effort for 3 or 4 innings isn't getting the job done either. Send them your resume as a candidate for pitching coach, and list me as a reference because I'll back you up. And I need to ask around, to find them a new candidate to lead their analytics, because the current team isn't getting it done - they're getting schooled every time they make a significant trade, it seems.

Personally, I have considered Polanco the best overall player on the team for five years. He is good.

I would have left him in. The pitch count was low enough. He was throwing strikes. He got hit hard but all 5 home runs were in the first row. Outfielders made a play on all 5. They need him to be able to work through a struggle and go deep. That didn’t happen last night. If he can’t handle getting beat and coming back stronger then he won’t have a long career in baseball.

Very sad performance by Ryan. But he's been the teams best starter. What's frustrating is we were counting on him to be a stopper. At least in this case. Hopefully Gray can do well on Saturday but the ship is rapidly sinking. I agree with the contributed questioning Rocco's handling of pitching staff. Many times he takes the pitcher out way too early then other times he leaves him in way too long. He should have gotten Ryan out of there much earlier. It probably wouldn't have made any difference in the final score. But maybe by letting him get hammered and embarrassed you hurt his confidence. I've been saying since April. This team is not good enough to be a serious contender and Rocco will wind up managing his way out of playoff consideration. Front Office, where are you???

Is it possible that Sano is trying to be DFA'ed so he can join another team? Or is he just that lost at the plate and guessing like he is playing a game of rock/paper/scissors? Either way.... no mas por favor!

I seriously think part of it is taking guys and adding 3-4 mph to their fastball over and above what they naturally threw. Add in increased slider usage which the Twins are famous for and increased injuries shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

Should've been the Arachnids

Probably about as difficult as spelling his name correctly ... ?‍♀️

On the broadcast A.J is really scratching his head over Rocco removing Gray.

.... or..... an excellent read that let a slower runner make the right play. Looked smart to me.

The team shopped him and found no takers at all. They aren't ready to cut bait yet. So... "Miguel. Your knee looks like it's hurting. A stint on the IL may do you good. You did say it hurts now, right? Right?" Just my own speculation.

This has been pretty well documented his reasons for taking the job ... close to home, less travel, more money, and it started NOW, he couldn't wait until the end of season because of how college sports/baseball works and what their schedule is ... let's not invent things because of your dislike for the Twins right now

Watched most of the two games versus the Brewers. Didn't watch last night as those west coast games are just too late. Kind of glad I didn't. What have we learned over the past three games? I believe it only confirmed that the Twins are a ways from being a legit contender for a long playoff run. Should Buxton be injured and go on the IL, any hope of winning a weak division becomes a dream. Should the FO make some moves over the next three days, certainly. But they all should be smaller moves that will help the team in 2023 and beyond. Maybe a good, young reliever? Maybe a young catcher who can compete with Jeffers in 2023?

I read he got the pitching coach job at LSU, which is really close to home for him, and he wants to be with his family because his kids are at that age. I also read he got a raise for doing so, as the school really wanted him.

Pitching is really stressful on your body. Attention should rightfully be on the health of these athletes. I do wonder when there is a return to an emphasis on leg strength gained from running. Certainly some changes, even mild, should be considered in how pitchers build their bodies to pitch. The number of injuries seem overwhelming. Max effort velocity makes hitting difficult and uncomfortable but is often unproductive and leads to injury. Joe Ryan is a decent pitcher and an example of how a pitcher can have some success pitching to spots as opposed to blowing batters away with uber velocity. I had high hopes for Josh Winder with his solid repertoire of pitches complemented by his excellent control. Hopefully he can recover but two years of shoulder issues are not a positive omen of things to come. I was hoping Ober could avoid injuries too ... very frustrating for them .... and us.

Yes Seattle gave up 4 prospects including a couple of high prospects. But they haven't been in the playoffs since 2000 or 2001. I don't think it's an overpay for the moment. You can play your prospects if they are so great or use them in trades. Prospects are an asset. At least the few that may be able to make the majors. But what good does it do to hoard prospects when the major league team is floundering and in obvious need of help. This team has been so flawed from the start but the FO so far has only been good at signing washed up pitchers no one else wants. Yes I agree we should be thinking 2023 and beyond. But first there is no guarantee as of today that the team in 2023 will be any better than this year's team. So what's wrong with adding a little major league pitching now and getting someone good enough to help with that supposedly open window? My opinion is if Falvey and Company is unable or unwilling to make some noticeable improvement on this team they should not be here. That's there job. I'm expecting some kind of help coming via trade. Some significant meaningful help. Can Sano pitch? He's not much good at anything else.

It's the hairdoo-doo! JR needs needs to grow back the "SoCal-heydude" look to reclaim the magic. Let 'er grow Joe!

I wouldn't invest another PA in Sano. The offense is thin enough. And I might be an old curmudgeon, but I find zero entertainment in Nick Gordon pitching for my favorite ballclub.

Time to forget 2022, trade some MLB players for AAA talent, and start planning for 2023.

Can we hire a new medical staff or something? I'm being sarcastic, but how are we ever going to build a pitching pipeline if our no prospect/young pitcher can stay healthy?

The Twins franchise has lost key games to many legends over time: Koufax, Yastrzemski, most of the 21st century Yankees, and... Eric Fox? That name may not be familiar, but if you followed the 1992 season with hopes of a repeat championship, Eric Fox played a large role in crushing those hopes. As they did in 1991, the 1992 Twins started slow in April, but warmed up in May and June, and finally took sole possession of first place after a marathon 15-inning win vs. Baltimore on Independence Day, July 4th. Entering a 3-game showdown with the second-place Oakland Athletics from July 27-29, the Twins held first place by 3 games, as well as the best record in MLB. The series should have favored the Twins: it was held in the Metrodome, packed with friendly fans off the excitement of 1991, and two of Oakland's stars, Rickey Henderson and Jose Canseco, were hobbled by injury. In their absence, the 28-year-old rookie non-prospect Fox was thrust into the A's outfield and leadoff spot, just 3 weeks after his major league debut. But Oakland won the first two games, prompting Twins GM Andy MacPhail to say "It looks like God wants a pennant race." Fox contributed 4 hits in 10 at-bats over those two games, which kept him in the leadoff spot for the third and final game of the series despite the returns of Canseco and Henderson. In that third game, 30 years ago today (July 29, 1992), Bill Krueger out-dueled Dave Stewart for 8 innings before Rick Aguilera came on in the 9th to protect both a 4-2 lead in the game and a 1-game lead in the division. Back-to-back singles brought up the potential go-ahead in Henderson, who would have been a logical hero, but baseball heroes aren't always logical: Henderson flew out for the first out of the inning. The next batter was Eric Fox. The switch-hitting Fox hit a 1-1 pitch off the facing of the Metrodome's upper deck in right field for a 3-run home run, giving the A's a 5-4 lead. After the game, Fox said, "Definitely the biggest hit in my life. Twenty-eight years worth. He came inside on me, and I just turned on it. The first thing I thought was that I might have turned on it too much. But I had that certain feeling." Dennis Eckersley, on his way to a Cy Young Award, retired the Twins in order in the bottom of the 9th to secure the victory, the sweep, and his 33rd save in as many chances that season. The 1992 Twins quickly faded into second place, as God's interest in a pennant race must have waned. But the hero Fox quickly faded too, finishing his major league career with a .198 batting average and 5 home runs in 290 plate appearances spread across four seasons. He'd show at least one more flair for the dramatic, though: on Opening Day in 1993, with Oakland clinging to a late 1-run lead against Detroit, Fox would hit a pinch-hit grand slam for insurance. Does God want a pennant race in 2022? The Twins' most recent games against Chicago and Cleveland might suggest that, and the Twins are scheduled to play them a combined 17 times over their final 33 games. If there is a 2022 version of Eric Fox, we can only hope God places him on the Twins this time.

Well, now that i've read the whole game thread, surprised it was only 7-4 ... sounded more like we were losing 23-1. Good times were had by all?

Are the Padres looking to deal their relievers? Asking for a (White Sox) fan.

Miranda taking the extra base proved pretty big.....

Good to come back and see both Buxton and Correa have come up big with home runs in a game the Twins would really like to win.

Great job Twins! Get us back on track!

Non solo shots are the best shots

When you have low expectations you're never disappointed.

Because, God forbid, we allow any pitcher from facing a hitter more than twice. Someone needs to burn Rocco's analytical spreadsheets, and the sooner the better.

Are you complaining about a home run?

To quote a successful and respected pundit here in the BIG RED state: "things I know and things I think I know". When you are as tall and long as someone like Ober, your body and mechanics just work differently than someone 4-6 inches shorter than you. Honestly, we might reference basketball and all the 6' 9" to 7'+ athletes that there, despite being a different sport, encounter various foot, back, shoulder, etc, injuries that it at least seems to be more prevelant that "smaller" colleagues. But, moving on, Ober changed his mechanics under Twins tutelage and and found both increased velocity, but just "felt better" after starts, while having complained that he previously just never felt good/right earlier in his career. I have read and re-read the issue with Ober through "medical speak" a few times now. And I might be off, but it sure appears that one of his muscles/tendons is, in fact, simply rubbing on bone. At least, more than is normal. I suppose that strength conditioning and different forms of exercise and conditioning might alleviate this problem. Think something like Pilates, even though that sounds silly at first for a 6' 9" athlete. But these kinds of changes are a possible solution when you read and hear about other athletes that have changed their routines at points in their career. I'm just educated, well read, and knowledgeable to be dangerous, lol. But I'm wondering if he doesn't need surgery to "shave down" a portion of bone, or, have a muscle/tendon operated similar to TOS. I'm really, really hoping rest and a different exercise practice will result in getting him back 100% for 2023, if not late 2022. I think the guy has a solid future and there's no question in my mind the Twins have really missed him. As to Winder, who knows? I know it's easy to be frustrated, and I am too, but IIRC, he's never had this shoulder issue until last year. Is this as simple as missing 2020 and his body has encountered some issues to rest and work through while building back velocity and endurance? Or is there something inside his shoulder not quite right after years of throwing a baseball? I know it's unpopular to say this, but the Twins DO CARE about their players from the ML level on down. They changed their training staff a couple years ago, and IIRC, they even changed out some team doctors. Just because nobody has figured out yet what "impingement" Winder has been dealing with certainly doesn't mean they aren't looking to figure it out. It's important for Winder, as well as the Twins. Just frustrating as hell that we have some really, really good arms like Ober, Winder, Alcala, Canterino and a few others that offer up a really nice pipeline, only to spring a handful of leaks and no immediate answers.

This sucks and really has me doing a 180 on the season. But the starting pitching had been surprisingly healthy under the new front office until last year, and both Ober and Winder sound like this might be a congenital thing. I expect addressing pitcher health the be a top priority this off season, but I'm not ready to say the method is broken. Other teams rely on pitchers throwing harder than ever, I don't know why the Twins aren't able to do the same, it's a copy cat league and this front office tends to follow trends. I 100% have no interest in watching the Twins backtrack into Terry Ryan's old soft tossing pitch-to-contact clubs.

I'm also going to stick my neck out real far, and guess that this is the moment when Beckham's .522 BABIP (I checked twice!) at St. Paul comes crashing back to earth, while the strikeout rate remains high. If I suggest .650 OPS for his stint with the Twins, who wants the Over?

Maybe he got tired of Rocco, like the rest of us.

Colorado, is, um, not well run.

Ace Wrigley, great to hear from you. I enjoy your posts but have missed seeing them. Your q's today are spot-on. Somebody here needs to do a hard interview with Falvinepohlad and get to the bottom of this drama. I vote for Ace to press the metal to the petal and force some answers. Some possible responses, fwiw: Q1: "Well, he wouldnt have crashed into the wall, because he WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PLAYING CF. Here at Twinsland, we realize now our multimillion dollar investment in our #1 guy hasnt been managed well, and we are committted to developing his talent at 1 position only, because it really is just plain silly of us to expend a #1 pick on a guy we want to use in a utility role. " Q2: " Thank you, that's a great question. We have no comment at this time, because none of us here can really explain the Correa signing while also doing the Berrios-Rogers trades. Seemed like a great idea at the time, and besides, Scott Boras scares the living hell out of us. We do what he tells us." Q3: "You know, pitching coaches are all the same, they chew the same chaw, their belly fat flabs over the beltline, hat sizes are a size small, they belch and fart a lot, and at the end of the day, ones about as good as another."

Redundancy in my add-on to this response ... The Twins lineup has been reasonably healthy all things considered and while all things are possible I would not expect the lineup to be improved next season unless Jermaine Palacios wins the AL MVP at shortstop. The lineup is young and needs pitching but people are afraid to gut the farm system which apparently isn't good enough anyway to draw any interest from other teams. The Twins look to be in a tough position. Do they consider trading Polanco, Urshela, and Kepler? This always circles back - it's Falvey Time.