Game Recap: White Sox 13, Twins 3

DFA Shoemaker already. It’s honestly embarrassing to watch him come into the game at this point and just expect it to get out of hand. I’d rather watch any young pitcher, or ideally Ian Hamilton, looking for another chance in the Bigs to earn a spot in the bullpen. Please just start the fire sale and let the fans enjoy watching some prospects develop the rest of the season.

Well, I would rather give the ball to Ober, Jax or any number of guys who MIGHT pitch for the Twins in 2022 than...Shoemaker.

We all know the Twins are doing a standings push between now and the All-Star break!

https://www.mlb.com/twins/video/twins-gearing-for-standings-push

For those that believe Shoemaker should continue to pitch IN ANY GAME------please respond with your argument.

Yes, Ober's performance was disappointing, but seeing Shoemaker lit up like a firecracker absolutely serves no purpose other than to save the pitch count of other below average RPs.

Do the right thing and DFA him tomorrow.

Please - no more Shoemaker,  You are not going to fool anyone into trading for him.  Just DFA!  Do not think about it, just do it. 

SEASON OBER

Wasn't his fault, of course.  There never was much hope...

The defense for holding onto Shoemaker after proving to be equally as awful in relief as he was starting  was that the leash was short (Week + a few days give or take) and that the Twins "couldn't find anybody to replace him." That was 3 weeks ago....

In that time Detroit castoff Beau Burrows was added to the 40 man, and I had the pleasure of watching a Danny Coulombe start in person. Shoemaker gave up 8 runs in 2.2 innings tonight. Certainly a waiver claim or internal option can't replace that...

Where's DaveW with a Shoemaker status thread when we need one? 

Was really hoping to watch Ober with my dad tonight do what he has mostly done thus far, show potential while getting his feet wet in a rather aggressive promotion. Alas, it wasn't to be. And I'm not down on the kid. I still see something there as a back end starter with real potential. Just a young kid with a bad night. This season is about him growing, learning and adapting and getting ready for a possible future.

The same can't be said about Shoemaker. By his own admission he hasn't pitched well. I don't like anyone to lose their job, but he's already guaranteed to be paid his $2M for this year. Thank you for trying. Thank you for taking one for the team tonight to save the pen for the next game. Best of luck in 2022 and the rest of your career and life. But it's time to move on.

I mean, literally,  the Twins could promote anyone from AAA or AA and get the same results as tonight and probably better. It's just time for both parties to go their separate ways. Give someone younger who at least has a CHANCE to be part of the future a shot/opportunity.

Solid flier idea. It didn't work. Move on.

I'm glad Josh is heating up.  Few players can get as hot as him.  Wish he would shut his mouth when his team cannot win a game against good teams.  Again happy he is hot, trade value goes up.  Seems like a "me" player.  Yet I do not know this.  Prefer not to have him on ESPN talking smack when all we do is lose.

Full blown 5-alarm dumpster fire.

It’s not Rocco’s fault the Twins are bad. But on the other hand, it’s hard to lose this often and this bad, and hold a team together. Have to admit, Rocco does not look the part of someone up to that task. This is starting to feel like a complete rebuild may be the only way out.

Check this. Ohtani's first inning tonight. He walked the bases loaded, followed by a couple singles, a strikeout and a ground out, a HBP, and a walk. With 4 runs in, the bases loaded and two outs, the top of the order coming up again, Maddon had had enough, and replaced him with former Twin, Aaron Slegers, who only needed one out to provide the relief that is his purpose and reason for being in the game.  Slegers promptly gave up a bases clearing double on his second pitch to DJ LeMahieu, and all 3 inherited runners scored. I guess it doesn't matter if you are a current Twin, or a past Twin, this is not your year for giving up inherited runs, and it only takes one or two pitches.

The Yankees led 8-4 into the top of ninth, but now Chapman walks the bases loaded, and then gives up a grand slam to Walsh! The Angels score 7 in the 9th and win it, 11-8. 19 runs

Braves 20-Mets 2 , 22 runs, Brewers 15-Cubs 7, 22 runs, Nats 15-Rays 6, 21 runs, Marlins 11-Phillies 6, 17 runs.

16 runs scored in the 13-3 butchering of our Twins, and it doesn't even make the top 5 in runs scored in a game today. And pitchers all over the place are not finding their command. Unless they perhaps, don't throw it so hard...........?  trouble with grip?

Anyway, that doesn't explain why our Twins only got 5 hits........

Another fine example of what we've had to put up with watching all year on both sides of the ball. Pitching gets lit up, no relief in sight, bloodbath ensues. Twins hit 3 HR, all solo, and only get 5 hits total. Right out of central casting.

Obviously Shoemaker should have been DFA'ed a month ago, but at this point even the most cautious of GMs would release this guy. I really can't think of any reason he's still on the team, aside from maybe the FO is trying to show him a bit of respect or something? It's not like he's a long-time Twin or anything, it's just bizarre at this point.

Rocco's managing continues to puzzle. With the score 4-1, he brings in....the worst pitcher in the league? That basically is waving the white flag. Why not bring in Duffey? Rocco is always trying to win tomorrow, never today. At some point a manager has to gamble and say "I think we can get back in this one, I'm going to send in my best guys".  Rocco says "No way we come back from 4-1, I'm going to put in my WORST guy so we can save our best guys for tomorrow".

He's blatantly forfeiting the series with the Twins down by 3 runs, in the 5th inning. It's irritating. If your best players can play, put them in the damn game and go for the win. Worry about tomorrow when tomorrow gets here. 

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

Braves 20-Mets 2 , 22 runs, Brewers 15-Cubs 7, 22 runs, Nats 15-Rays 6, 21 runs, Marlins 11-Phillies 6, 17 runs.

16 runs scored in the 13-3 butchering of our Twins, and it doesn't even make the top 5 in runs scored in a game today. And pitchers all over the place are not finding their command. Unless they perhaps, don't throw it so hard...........?  trouble with grip?

Typically you do see offense start to pick up this time of year, but these stats you shared are pretty eye-opening. Glad to see run scoring is up, frankly.

Even with Spider Tack, the Twins staff was getting lit up in April and May. Time to start placing some "over" bets on Twins games, gamblers!

5 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Full blown 5-alarm dumpster fire.

It’s not Rocco’s fault the Twins are bad. But on the other hand, it’s hard to lose this often and this bad, and hold a team together. Have to admit, Rocco does not look the part of someone up to that task. This is starting to feel like a complete rebuild may be the only way out.

Not Rocco's fault? He sits in dugout looking at his darn binder instead of managing. How about teaching the kids how to play a fence? Not one of them knows how. All of them shy away from the wall or crash into it. Kiriloff shying away and letting that foul drop to allow winning run later was embarrassing. But all the kids do it. Rocco or staff should be out pre game teaching this skill that should have already been taught! Plus the Whiz Kids theory of doing it with cheap retread pitchers is being exposed as folly!

Cruz has to be thinking can't wait to get moved to a contender, hopefully soon for his sake.  Donaldson is playing the look at me card this week, not a team player.  Would love to move him to dump salary and get some bodies in return.  Shoemaker needs to go.  Pat him on the back and send him on his way and somebody will be pick him up on the cheap.  

I'm not a Shoemaker fan either. Yes he should have been DFA a month or two ago. However, I am very frustrated with Baldelli.  He should be ashamed of himself for leaving Shoemaker out there.  It's an embarassment to the team.  I actually felt sorry for the pitcher as Rocco left him out there.  I would be irate if I was Shoemaker for letting him hang out to dry.  Shoemaker should be gone, it is true.  But I'm getting very frustrated with Rocco and how he's handling the team.  Is anyone in control of the team?

7 hours ago, DocBauer said:

 

The same can't be said about Shoemaker. By his own admission he hasn't pitched well. I don't like anyone to lose their job, but he's already guaranteed to be paid his $2M for this year. Thank you for trying. Thank you for taking one for the team tonight to save the pen for the next game. Best of luck in 2022 and the rest of your career and life. But it's time to move on.

I mean, literally,  the Twins could promote anyone from AAA or AA and get the same results as tonight and probably better. It's just time for both parties to go their separate ways. Give someone younger who at least has a CHANCE to be part of the future a shot/opportunity.

Solid flier idea. It didn't work. Move on.

Makes me wonder if they just promoted his replacement to AAA and wanted to give him a start or two in St. Paul.   IDK if Winder is ready and I don't want them pushing him because the big league starting staff is a mess.  Just run Jax out there until whatever they are ready to execute something else.

Are we still thinking that Ober is a viable starting option next year? He will be 26 in 11 days, and currently averages 4 innings a start, I am not sure I see the Twins saying he could step that up anytime soon, doesn't seem like this FO philosophy.

On a side note if you are going to put a starting pitcher out there hoping the best case scenario is he throws 5 innings. Why not do just do a bullpen game? Start Colome for two innings bring in Ober for 3-7, and you have your best relief pitchers for the 8th and 9th or showmaker if you are getting blown out. I understand you probably get the same results as last night, but Rocco loves to burn though relief pitchers in the later innings, maybe if had in theory you best pitcher(starter) pitching the 5th, 6th and 7th he would not have burn though them all

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Are we still thinking that Ober is a viable starting option next year? He will be 26 in 11 days, and currently averages 4 innings a start, I am not sure I see the Twins saying he could step that up anytime soon, doesn't seem like this FO philosophy.

 

Ober will be lucky if he can have a career like Aaron Slegers. That's his ceiling, mind you. Nobody in their right mind sees Ober as a long-term solution. He's just the only guy the Twins have to eat innings at this point - at least that must be the case, because there's no other reason he's pitching for an MLB team right now.

I agree with you, but if you read other threads there are many thinking he will solve one of the open starter spots next year.

It's obvious: Time to bring back Astudillo, this time as a pitcher. He can't be any worse than Ober and Shoemaker, and unlike three-ball-count-on-every-hitter Ober, Astudillo would move the game along!

Not a word on this disaster of a season from the owner or front office.