Did The Twins Manufacture a Top Pitching Prospect?

[Ted Schwerzler]

The Minnesota Twins were probably hoping to have a top pitching prospect emerge from Triple-A St. Paul to look like a future rotation mainstay this year. It’s hard to say it hasn’t happened, but it wasn’t who you expected.

 

Last season the Twins saw Canadian right-hander Jordan Balazovic show up on multiple top 100 prospect lists. He was a sleeper pick to rocket up those same rankings in 2022, and there’s no denying Derek Falvey and Thad Levine had dreams of him slotting into Rocco Baldelli’s rotation.

Balazovic started the season late after a knee injury, and nothing has gone right since. There’s been no indication that he’s still injured, but you certainly have to hope that something has been off. The former 5th round pick in 2016 now owns a 9.06 ERA across 49 2/3 innings at Triple-A this year, and he’s gone from a double-digit strikeout pitcher to one with declining numbers and the ball leaving the park at an alarming rate.

No matter how the rest of the string plays out, Minnesota has to figure out a way for Balazovic to get right next season.

In his place, you could have assumed Cole Sands, Simeon Woods-Richardson, Matt Canterino or any number of other top prospects in the upper levels may have stepped up. Instead, the arm that won Minnesota’s Minor League Pitcher of the Year a season ago just kept going about his business.

Louie Varland was grabbed in the 15th round during the 2019 Major League Baseball draft. Concordia St. Paul is a Division 2 school right down the street from Target Field. Gus Varland, Louie’s brother, was selected a year earlier by the Oakland Athletics. Bryan Lippincott and Jake Schmidt were drafted from legendary coach Mark McKenzie’s program before them. It’s maybe not the most glorious path, but with talent, it won’t ever matter.

Varland has been a lunch-pail type of pitcher since the moment he joined the Twins organization. He posted a 2.10 ERA across his first 100 professional innings in Single-A ball, and followed it up with a 3.34 ERA for Double-A Wichita in 105 innings this season. Now knocking on the doorstep playing for the St. Paul Saints, Varland has been nothing short of magical in three turns.

With 17 Triple-A innings under his belt, Varland has a 24/3 K/BB while allowing just three runs (two earned) on 11 hits. He’s never been one to give up the long ball, he’ll mow down batters in bunches, and he’s remained stingy with free passes. There isn’t a ton of deception at play here either, and Varland has worked to push his velocity into the triple-digits during offseason workouts.

Nearing a 25th birthday it’s fair to understand that Varland doesn’t have the luster brought on by some of the teenage hitting prospects. He is about to capture a second-straight Minor League Pitcher of the Year award though, and it will be because he’s earned it in the most dominating fashion. With Minnesota needing to infuse the starting rotation with homegrown talent, it’s hard to get better than a kid from their own backyard, that’s taken the path less traveled, and beaten the odds.

Maybe the organization can right whatever went wrong with Balazovic this season, but they have to be ecstatic with the found money and developmental progress Varland has displayed. The next stop will be on a mound with slightly more fans than Barnes Field.

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[Karbo]

He sure looks good in the minors. Lets hope he gets a chance with the Twins next year! It will be a big spring for him, and with some of the players going in the Classic, he should get a chance to show whether or not he's ready.

[awmonahan]

The number look good. And the clip is awesome. He's pretty efficient and then just explodes towards the batter. Something about it looks unnatural and deceptive. Bring him up!

[TwinsDr2021]

I find it very hard to call an almost 25 year old that averages 5 innings in AA and AAA as a top pitching prospect. As a fan I hope he makes it and does well, but I find it hard to believe he will be anything more than relief pitcher how can you take a guy that you have held to 5 ish innings (not testing them with the TTO) in the minors to something more than that in the majors?

To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers.

[Sean.h]

6 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I find it very hard to call an almost 25 year old that averages 5 innings in AA and AAA as a top pitching prospect. As a fan I hope he makes it and does well, but I find it hard to believe he will be anything more than relief pitcher how can you take a guy that you have held to 5 ish innings (not testing them with the TTO) in the minors to something more than that in the majors?

To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers.

Yes top pitching prospect is probably a reach. Solid mid to end-rotation starter? Possible.

It's also a reach to anoint him minor league pitcher of the year. In the high minors, SWR (3.29ERA/1.15WHIP/10.1K9) and Varland (3.06ERA/1.26WHIP/10.4K9) are probably the best candidates, but David Festa (2.05ERA/1.10WHIP/9.9K9) has put up best overall numbers this year, no?

[FlyingFinn]

10 minutes ago, Sean.h said:

It's also a reach to anoint him minor league pitcher of the year.

Not a reach since it's a fact. He won it for being the Twins minor league pitcher of the year last year.

[AceWrigley]

32 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers.

It's the game today.

[chpettit19]

40 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I find it very hard to call an almost 25 year old that averages 5 innings in AA and AAA as a top pitching prospect. As a fan I hope he makes it and does well, but I find it hard to believe he will be anything more than relief pitcher how can you take a guy that you have held to 5 ish innings (not testing them with the TTO) in the minors to something more than that in the majors?

To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers.

He's gone into the 6th in 13 of 23 starts this year. He had never thrown more than 103 innings in a season in his life. He's at 126.1 this year, and will make several more starts. They're limiting the length of his starts because they want him to be used to pitching the entire season while also not overusing his arm so much that he struggles to stay healthy next year.

He didn't pitch in 2020. Threw 103 innings in 2021. And is going to get to the 150 range this year. Next year he'll likely not have any inning limit beyond how he performs and whether or not he's worthy of making it through the order a third time, etc. They aren't limiting him because of the third time through the order, they're limiting him because his arm has literally never done what they're asking it to do before.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

He's gone into the 6th in 13 of 23 starts this year. He had never thrown more than 103 innings in a season in his life. He's at 126.1 this year, and will make several more starts. They're limiting the length of his starts because they want him to be used to pitching the entire season while also not overusing his arm so much that he struggles to stay healthy next year.

He didn't pitch in 2020. Threw 103 innings in 2021. And is going to get to the 150 range this year. Next year he'll likely not have any inning limit beyond how he performs and whether or not he's worthy of making it through the order a third time, etc. They aren't limiting him because of the third time through the order, they're limiting him because his arm has literally never done what they're asking it to do before.

Your post doesn't fit the narrative. It is accurate, though. So thank you.

They literally took a guy they drafted when? And he looks like a legit prospect? And people post negative things, still. Thank you for posting some actual information.

[Brandon]

35 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

He's gone into the 6th in 13 of 23 starts this year. He had never thrown more than 103 innings in a season in his life. He's at 126.1 this year, and will make several more starts. They're limiting the length of his starts because they want him to be used to pitching the entire season while also not overusing his arm so much that he struggles to stay healthy next year.

He didn't pitch in 2020. Threw 103 innings in 2021. And is going to get to the 150 range this year. Next year he'll likely not have any inning limit beyond how he performs and whether or not he's worthy of making it through the order a third time, etc. They aren't limiting him because of the third time through the order, they're limiting him because his arm has literally never done what they're asking it to do before.

I give TwinsDr2021 a pass as I would look at Varland and see the same thing at first glance.  The explanation above clears that up and I am a believer in Varland.  

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, AceWrigley said:

It's the game today.

Does that change the fact that it is going to be super hard for them or others to develop a top end starter?

[blindeke]

Great story!

[Rosterman]

I, too, was frustrated seeing short starrts (like in the majors) by so many in the minors.

Then realized that they want the pitchers to build on "season-long strength" and to get innings in over the entire season. 

Going into spring training 2023 the Twins prospect pitchers, no doubt on the 40-man, will remain Balazovic, Henriquez, Enlow and Sands, joined by Varland, Canterino and Woods-Richardson.d.

Sadly Canterino will get major league service time and be carrried all season on the 60-day. Enlow will be in AA working up his own innings. But there will still be five arms vying for a chance to pitch in the majors, hopefully more than half of them fulltime in 2024 and beyonb

[mikelink45]

No - they did not manufacture a pitching prospect.  I give all the credit to Varland and his tenacity.  I do want to see him in the majors and like others in this post I look at his age and say if he is going to be a success it has to start now. 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Your post doesn't fit the narrative. It is accurate, though. So thank you.

They literally took a guy they drafted when? And he looks like a legit prospect? And people post negative things, still. Thank you for posting some actual information.

He was a 15th round pick in 2019, what did I post that was negative(?) that he averages 5 innings a start at 24 years old in AA and AAA, aren't those facts? Of those 13 times he came out for the 6th he finished the inning 6 times and has 4 quality starts.

I gave my opinion that I thought he would end up a relief pitcher and that it seems hard to develop top end starters when you treat the minors league pitchers like you treat the major league pitchers, is that a way out in left field take am I missing all the talent evaluators calling him the next McClanahan, Gilbert, Manoah, Webb types?

He averages just over 22 batters faced, just over 5 innings and 85 pitches a game, do those numbers look familiar? They should because that is basically what the Twins major league starters do. 

I am not complaining about what the Twins are doing, it is what it is but to pretend that after he gets to the majors the Twins are going to do something completely different than what they are doing now seems a bit naive.

I wish him the best of luck and hope I am wrong!

[farmerguychris]

13 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Does that change the fact that it is going to be super hard for them or others to develop a top end starter?

I think that in today's MLB, especially teams that value science and analytics - developing a starter to consistently go 6 innings is the goal.  Many people who listened to Bert go on about throwing 170 pitches in a game won't like the new style of what is expected of a starter - but just because one does not like it does not make it factual. 

[chpettit19]

13 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Does that change the fact that it is going to be super hard for them or others to develop a top end starter?

Pablo Lopez (this year's leader in ML innings pitched) threw 145.1 innings in 2017. Highest he ever totaled in the minors. Varland should get awfully close to that total this year. And Pablo Lopez is a top end starter. 

Jacob deGrom maxed out at 147.2 innings in 2013.
Max Scherzer topped out at 90.2 in 2007.
Verlander 118.2. Kershaw 122. Gausman 123.2. Bieber at 173.1 is an outlier for you. Fried 118.2. Cease 124. Rodon 132.1. Alcantara 125.1.

That's a pretty good list of "top end starters" that weren't exactly throwing a ton in the minors. I just think the connection you're trying to make isn't one that can be so easily made. 

According to Fangraph's minor league leader board, Louie Varland is 12th in all of affiliated minor league baseball in innings pitched this year. Again, this isn't about letting him go 3 times through the order, it's about building up arm strength to endure an entire major league season. The goals in the minors are different than those in the majors and it's not such a straight line connection between the strategies.

[roger]

18 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

He was a 15th round pick in 2019, what did I post that was negative(?) that he averages 5 innings a start at 24 years old in AA and AAA, aren't those facts? Of those 13 times he came out for the 6th he finished the inning 6 times and has 4 quality starts.

I gave my opinion that I thought he would end up a relief pitcher and that it seems hard to develop top end starters when you treat the minors league pitchers like you treat the major league pitchers, is that a way out in left field take am I missing all the talent evaluators calling him the next McClanahan, Gilbert, Manoah, Webb types?

He averages just over 22 batters faced, just over 5 innings and 85 pitches a game, do those numbers look familiar? They should because that is basically what the Twins major league starters do. 

I am not complaining about what the Twins are doing, it is what it is but to pretend that after he gets to the majors the Twins are going to do something completely different than what they are doing now seems a bit naive.

I wish him the best of luck and hope I am wrong!

What I don't understand is why anyone even mentions what so many do.  Why talk about him being a reliever, until he is.  Why talk about him being a middle of the rotation guy, or back of the rotation guy, until he is.  Every pitcher the Twins have in the organization has the potential of becoming a true ACE.  Yes, most or all will not.  But they all could wake up tomorrow and become that rare pitcher. 

What I was most interested in knowing from Ted's writing was about his comment about being a "lunch-pail" type pitcher.  He referenced Mark McKenzie, was his play on words related to McKenzie's nickname being "Lunch?"

[TwinsDr2021]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Pablo Lopez (this year's leader in ML innings pitched) threw 145.1 innings in 2017. Highest he ever totaled in the minors. Varland should get awfully close to that total this year. And Pablo Lopez is a top end starter. 

Jacob deGrom maxed out at 147.2 innings in 2013.
Max Scherzer topped out at 90.2 in 2007.
Verlander 118.2. Kershaw 122. Gausman 123.2. Bieber at 173.1 is an outlier for you. Fried 118.2. Cease 124. Rodon 132.1. Alcantara 125.1.

That's a pretty good list of "top end starters" that weren't exactly throwing a ton in the minors. I just think the connection you're trying to make isn't one that can be so easily made. 

According to Fangraph's minor league leader board, Louie Varland is 12th in all of affiliated minor league baseball in innings pitched this year. Again, this isn't about letting him go 3 times through the order, it's about building up arm strength to endure an entire major league season. The goals in the minors are different than those in the majors and it's not such a straight line connection between the strategies.

How old was Pablo Lopez in 2017? That is right he was 21 and Varland will be 25 in December.

deGrom is the odd one because he was so injured in the minors and didn't debut until he was 26

Scherzer debuted at 23 , Verlander at 22, Kershaw at 20, Gausmann at 22, Bieber at 23, Rondon 22, Cease at 23, Fried at 23, Alcantara at 21.

Are these really they guys you are taking about, comparing a 24 year old to a 20, 21, 22 year old isn't the same.

Also is it weird Varland started the 6th more in 21 than 22 and once even pitched 7 innings?

 

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

He was a 15th round pick in 2019, what did I post that was negative that he averages 5 innings a start at 24 years old in AA and AAA, aren't those facts? Of those 13 times he came out for the 6th he finished the inning 6 times and has 4 quality starts.

I gave my opinion that I thought he would end up a relief pitcher and that it seems hard to develop top end starters when you treat the minors league pitchers like you treat the major league pitchers, is that a way out in left field take am I missing all the talent evaluators calling him the next McClanahan, Gilbert, Manoah, Webb types?

He averages just over 22 batters faced, just over 5 innings and 85 pitches a game, do those numbers look familiar? They should because that is basically what the Twins major league starters do. 

I am not complaining about what the Twins are doing, it is what it is but to pretend that after he gets to the majors the Twins are going to do something completely different than what they are doing now seems a bit naive.

I wish him the best of luck and hope I am wrong!

Have you looked at McClanahan's minor league start data? Average batters faced: 21.65. Average start: 5.08 innings. Average pitches thrown: 82.9. In his season with the most innings thrown in the minors.

Don't even look at Webb's 2018 minor league stats. Only made it into the 6th 3 times in 26 starts. Only cracked 80 pitches 7 times. Only faced at least 20 hitters 8 times.

The connection you're trying to make simply isn't that easy to make.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

How old was Pablo Lopez in 2017? That is right he was 21 and Varland will be 25 in December.

deGrom is the odd one because he was so injured in the minors and didn't debut until he was 26

Scherzer debuted at 23 , Verlander at 22, Kershaw at 20, Gausmann at 22, Bieber at 23, Rondon 22, Cease at 23, Fried at 23, Alcantara at 21.

Are these really they guys you are taking about, comparing a 24 year old to a 20, 21, 22 year old isn't the same.

Also is it weird Varland started the 6th more in 21 than 22 and once even pitched 7 innings?

 

I'm not suggesting he's going to be anything like them on a talent or performance level, I'm simply disproving your idea that you can't develop a top end starter if they don't throw more in the minors. It's an incorrect stance as proven by basically everyone at the top of the pitching leaderboards today.

[Brett]

I appreciate the fact that Varland has shown enough potential that we’re nitpicking about innings and how old he is.

is he a perennial All Star in the making? Likely not. Is he a better 4/5 than Bundy or Archer? That’s a question that should be answered soon.

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Have you looked at McClanahan's minor league start data? Average batters faced: 21.65. Average start: 5.08 innings. Average pitches thrown: 82.9. In his season with the most innings thrown in the minors.

Don't even look at Webb's 2018 minor league stats. Only made it into the 6th 3 times in 26 starts. Only cracked 80 pitches 7 times. Only faced at least 20 hitters 8 times.

The connection you're trying to make simply isn't that easy to make.

McClanahan basically spent 1 year in the minors at age 22, correct? and yes at 18, 19, 20 and even 21 Webb wasn't a workhorse but he was in the majors at 22 and by age 25 is averaging over 6 innings a start.

You are 100% on the innings pitched in the minors, but when you tie innings to age you do get a different story. I don't expect SWR to pitch the same amount of innings at 21 that I would expect out of a older minor league pitcher ( I would expect he is working on completely different things), but if that doesn't jump next year, then the odds say he is just another pitcher. I will say the Twins for the most part treat their minor league starters like they do the major league starters, which IMO isn't a good sign for the Twins minor league pitchers to be an ACE type pitcher, are you really expecting Joe Ryan for example to average 6 plus innings next year? I hope he does, but I wouldn't bet on it, not because of his skills but the Twins philosophy.

In Varland's case he is fighting crazy odds to become a better than average starter, if a starter at all, it just doesn't happen for guys that debut after the age of 24. (yes there are a few, but it is very, very rare and I hope he is the exception)

[chpettit19]

38 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

McClanahan basically spent 1 year in the minors at age 22, correct? and yes at 18, 19, 20 and even 21 Webb wasn't a workhorse but he was in the majors at 22 and by age 25 is averaging over 6 innings a start.

You are 100% on the innings pitched in the minors, but when you tie innings to age you do get a different story. I don't expect SWR to pitch the same amount of innings at 21 that I would expect out of a older minor league pitcher ( I would expect he is working on completely different things), but if that doesn't jump next year, then the odds say he is just another pitcher. I will say the Twins for the most part treat their minor league starters like they do the major league starters, which IMO isn't a good sign for the Twins minor league pitchers to be an ACE type pitcher, are you really expecting Joe Ryan for example to average 6 plus innings next year? I hope he does, but I wouldn't bet on it, not because of his skills but the Twins philosophy.

In Varland's case he is fighting crazy odds to become a better than average starter, if a starter at all, it just doesn't happen for guys that debut after the age of 24. (yes there are a few, but it is very, very rare and I hope he is the exception)

I mean Varland has been fighting the odds since he walked on campus in St Paul. Not a whole lot of MLB players coming out of Concordia St Paul. And, again, I'm not predicting he becomes a front line starter. The fact that he made it to AAA is an absolute success story for him, first and foremost, and the Twins development teams secondly. The fact that he continues to perform well and looks like he has a real shot at making the majors is encouraging for all involved.

Pointing out that he's behind the elite, 1st round (or 4th in Webb's case) picks in progression at his age isn't breaking news at all. That's why the article is about "manufacturing" a prospect. He's a late round pick from a small school that has no business being where he is already. I'd say that kind of shows that "the odds" don't necessarily apply to him.

[prouster]

26 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

McClanahan basically spent 1 year in the minors at age 22, correct? and yes at 18, 19, 20 and even 21 Webb wasn't a workhorse but he was in the majors at 22 and by age 25 is averaging over 6 innings a start.

You are 100% on the innings pitched in the minors, but when you tie innings to age you do get a different story. I don't expect SWR to pitch the same amount of innings at 21 that I would expect out of a older minor league pitcher ( I would expect he is working on completely different things), but if that doesn't jump next year, then the odds say he is just another pitcher. I will say the Twins for the most part treat their minor league starters like they do the major league starters, which IMO isn't a good sign for the Twins minor league pitchers to be an ACE type pitcher, are you really expecting Joe Ryan for example to average 6 plus innings next year? I hope he does, but I wouldn't bet on it, not because of his skills but the Twins philosophy.

In Varland's case he is fighting crazy odds to become a better than average starter, if a starter at all, it just doesn't happen for guys that debut after the age of 24. (yes there are a few, but it is very, very rare and I hope he is the exception)

It seems to me that brining in age is just moving the goalposts. Chpettit19 is saying that Varland’s relatively few minor league IP don’t necessarily portend few major league innings. 
 

And if he ends up as a reliever, good. I like having guys in the bullpen who throw 99. How many times this year have you and others complained (rightfully) about the lack of dependable relievers?

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, prouster said:

It seems to me that brining in age is just moving the goalposts. Chpettit19 is saying that Varland’s relatively few minor league IP don’t necessarily portend few major league innings. 
 

And if he ends up as a reliever, good. I like having guys in the bullpen who throw 99. How many times this year have you and others complained (rightfully) about the lack of dependable relievers?

I think calling a guy that possibly won't see the majors until age 25 - "Did The Twins Manufacture a Top Pitching Prospect?"

is moving the goal posts.

If he ends up making the Twins and being a good starting pitcher or relief pitcher that would be wonderful and credit should go to the FO and him, I am not trying to take anything away from him, just trying to be realistic on expectations. And as of now there isn't a spot in the 2023 rotation (Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Maeda, Ober, WInder) so either he starts in the minors or the pen and if he starts in the minors and comes up he will more than likely be a 4 - 5 innings starter which is fine but not what I define as Top Pitching Prospect.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

That's why the article is about "manufacturing" a prospect.

I guess that is my bad because I thought the article was about - Did The Twins Manufacture a Top Pitching Prospect?

He might be a Twins top pitching prospect, it will be interesting to see if he makes any top pitching prospects lists?

[chpettit19]

58 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

he will more than likely be a 4 - 5 innings starter which is fine but not what I define as Top Pitching Prospect.

 

54 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I guess that is my bad because I thought the article was about - Did The Twins Manufacture a Top Pitching Prospect?

He might be a Twins top pitching prospect, it will be interesting to see if he makes any top pitching prospects lists?

You're playing some semantics now, and trying to bounce around a bit.

You started off with the stance of "To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers." because the Twins limit Varland "to 5 ish innings (not testing them with the TTO)" which were things easily disproven as I showed that almost every "top end starter" has limits put on them while they're in the minors, and that Varland isn't being limited because of TTO, but instead because of innings limits while trying to get him to throw deep into a season.

You have a problem with him being 25, and that's fair. Most elite major league pitchers got to the bigs well before they were 25, but they were also drafted out of big schools or high in the first round and expected to move quickly. Varland wasn't and that's why we're talking about "manufacturing" a top prospect instead of simply drafting a guy in the first round and having him become what everyone thought/hoped he'd become.

There is no reason to believe he will only be a "4-5 inning starter." The Twins let Ryan and Gray both go deep into games early in the season before they went on the IL, and, in Ryan's case, stopped being effective. They let Berrios throw 200 innings a year, and be on pace for it again before being traded. And, again, Varland isn't being limited to shorter starts this year because of a fear of the 3rd time seeing the order, but because he's thrown more innings this year than he ever has in his entire life and they are working on building season long arm strength.

As far as what "top pitching prospect" means you can define it however you want. You can compare him to guys who actually became elite MLB pitchers, but that's not fair to him, or any other prospect. Or you can compare his numbers to the numbers of guys who were ranked high on prospect rankings and then it's a whole different argument. There are a ton of high picks who are highly ranked prospects that don't even make the bigs and have terrible minor league numbers. The Twins have a whole bunch of them over the last decade. Tyler Jay was a "top pitching prospect" at one point. Is Varland a better prospect than Jay in AA? I don't think it's even close. Tyler Jay didn't even make it to AAA let alone succeed there. So who's the "top pitching prospect" out of those 2? The guy who's name was on "the lists" or the guy actually succeeding?

I mean if you're simply trying to say you don't think Varland is going to be Jacob deGrom then fine. You win. He's likely never going to be Jacob deGrom. But to suggest he's not a legit prospect with very impressive minor league numbers that hold up to all the "big name prospects" is simply ignoring the facts.

[dxpavelka]

7 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I find it very hard to call an almost 25 year old that averages 5 innings in AA and AAA as a top pitching prospect. As a fan I hope he makes it and does well, but I find it hard to believe he will be anything more than relief pitcher how can you take a guy that you have held to 5 ish innings (not testing them with the TTO) in the minors to something more than that in the majors?

To be honest I don't know how this team will every develop a top end starter with the limits they put on the minor league pitchers.

Perhaps you haven't been watching the way the game is being played these days........

[BH67]

6 hours ago, farmerguychris said:

I think that in today's MLB, especially teams that value science and analytics - developing a starter to consistently go 6 innings is the goal.  Many people who listened to Bert go on about throwing 170 pitches in a game won't like the new style of what is expected of a starter - but just because one does not like it does not make it factual. 

Ergo, the team with the deepest first-rate bullpen is most likely to compete for division titles and league pennants.  And therefore homegrown bullpen talent is also needed in large numbers, especially since the Twins' forays into bullpen free agency usually have not been positive.

Here's a question for everyone's consideration: do you see a positive correlation between increased velocity and occurrences of Tommy John surgery?  I may ask this again in a more timely post since most of you have already read it.