he was also a borderline allstar who can play effectively at four positions is an extra base machine and by all accounts was the most sought after MI available behind Machado in this years trade class. I don't mind that we traded him I just don't like that we traded him to a team with a bottom 2/3 farm system.

He's a rental, you really didn't think we were gonna get a Top 10 prospect, did you? And if you think this deal is bad, imagine what other teams were offering

I'm sure the Twins listened to several offers. Three A ball players that don't really look great ... I dunno. I'm underwhelmed. 

Frankly, this is probably more than we can get for Lynn, Dozier or even Duke. Get ready, this could be ugly. BTW, is anyone coming up to the Twins to take Esco's place. I see he's in the MLB.com lineup as the DH. Sano on his way?

 

Sano recalled but likely won’t make it tonight. Just as well with Sale pitching.

Edited July 27, 20188 yr by purppride1

I'm sure the Twins listened to several offers. Three A ball players that don't really look great ... I dunno. I'm underwhelmed.

Agreed, but did you expect anything different? We now have 2 years of data showing underwhelming returns for rentals...

 

Thanks analytics! Why did Arizona let go of Dave Stewart?

While I would've preferred some player(s) closer to the bigs, if the FO had no intention of extending Escobar a QO, and this was the best trade offer they got, then I can't fault them for getting something in return. But, we'll never know what other offers they had. 3 mediocre A ball players is definitely a disappointment, but perhaps it was the best of the disappointing offers.

 

Agreed, but did you expect anything different? We now have 2 years of data showing underwhelming returns for rentals...

Thanks analytics! Why did Arizona let go of Dave Stewart?

Yeah, I don't think we got hosed. I'm a bit surprised that Arizona was the team that got him - I thought Milwaukee for sure. But I did think we'd get a lottery ticket with upside. All three of these guys seem like both longshots and limited upside. 

 

I guess you would make the qualifying offer. Fair enough. I am torn.

 

I was incorrect about the 50. If Escobar signs for less than 50 million it would be after the competitive balance picks in round 2. This year those picks were 75 to 78. Of the over 200 players drafted in those slots a total of 8 have a career WAR of better than 20. Two others had good stretches in their career coming in above 10. That is about a 5% chance of getting a good player. The bar of a comp pick in that range isn't a very high bar to clear in a trade.

none of those players would have gone 75-78 either - one was a nineteenth rounder

 

LOL....you guys.  

 

http://cdn1.alloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Emma-Stone-Freaking-Out.gif

 

Good Lord.

 

I mean...do REALLY think Escobar on an expiring contract is worth 1 top ten prospect?  

 

C'mon.

 

Phillies are getting Asdrubel Cabrera. We'll be able to compare returns.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/phillies-to-acquire-asdrubal-cabrera.html

 

He's a rental, you really didn't think we were gonna get a Top 10 prospect, did you? And if you think this deal is bad, imagine what other teams were offering

 

you obviously haven't read all of my other posts in this whole thread - the #15 prospect on nearly every other team would be better than the #3 prospect from ARI. Their #10 prospect would rank 20th on most other teams. I seriously didn't want the team to trade Escobar, but we could've chose a team with a prospect base to draw from. Especially since every major news site was referring to Escobar as the second most desired tradeable MI behind Machado for most of the last month.

 

Phillies are getting Asdrubel Cabrera. We'll be able to compare returns.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/phillies-to-acquire-asdrubal-cabrera.html

MLB Trade Rumors is reporting Franklyn Kilome - a preseason #68 overall on Baseball Prospectus and midseason #7 on Phillies - our trade looks just that much worse now

 

Phillies are getting Asdrubel Cabrera. We'll be able to compare returns.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/phillies-to-acquire-asdrubal-cabrera.html

They got a top 100 prospect back ...

The Twins are out of the playoff race and traded a pending FA for something. Seems pretty cut and dry. More pending FAs will be traded too.

Like Dozier?

 

They got a top 100 prospect back ...

False. Maybe at the start of the year, but no longer.

 

Kilome is the teams number 10 prosepct, 23, and in AA, with underwhelming numbers. Fairly similar to the Twins return of Mejia from the Nunez trade years ago. I'm sure the Twins could have picked a closer to MLB, but opted for younger guys who have a lower floor, but probably higher ceiling. 

Kilome has had a bad year and will drop out of all top 100 rankings (already has in mlb.com). He is ranked as the Philles #10 prospect, but he's 23 and appears to be headed to the bullpen.

 

The Twins took what they could get and obviously were not planning on making a QO to Escobar, which is certainly defensible. The return is what it is, if you don't like it, that just means you don't understand how MLB clubs view Escobar.

The Twins deal looks much better than the Mets deal with the Phillies. Kilome's numbers are not very good--even over the course of his minor league career.

 

False. Maybe at the start of the year, but no longer

Kilome is the teams number 10 prosepct, 23, and in AA, with underwhelming numbers. Fairly similar to the Twins return of Mejia from the Nunez trade years ago. I'm sure the Twins could have picked a closer to MLB, but opted for younger guys who have a lower floor, but probably higher ceiling. 

He is #7 on their team as of 7-25-2018 http://prospects1500.com/top-50-lists/philadelphia-phillies-midseason-top-50-prospects/ Baseball Prospectus had him at #68 overall coming in to the season

From Fangraphs on 7/26/2018:

 

Gabriel Maciel, CF, Arizona Diamondbacks (Profile)
Level: Low-A   Age: 19   Org Rank: 18   FV: 40
Line: 2-for-4, 2B

Notes
The 19-year-old Brazilian has hit in every July game in which he’s played and is riding an 18-game streak, including multi-hit games in eight of his past 10. Maciel was hitting .249/.336/.305 on July 1 and is now at .291/.367/.338. He’s a plus-plus running center fielder with very limited physicality, but he understands what his offensive approach has to be to reach base and he has played well-executed small-ball throughout his pro career. There’s risk that this style of hitting won’t play against better defenses and that Maciel winds up as a bench outfielder.

 

From Fangraphs on 6/18/2018:

Jhoan Duran, RHP, Diamondbacks: If you’re looking for a deep-ish sleeper to keep an eye on, Duran is a name to know. He has a great pitcher’s frame but room to continue to get stronger and perhaps pick up even more velo. He’s already in the 94-98 mph range with his fastball, though, and it’s really the secondary offerings (breaking ball, change) that need the most focus. As is, Duran uses his height to create excellent downward plane on his heater and most hitters simply pound the ball into the air. He can miss bats, too, and has whiffed 47 batters in 41 innings since joining low-A ball in early May. The swing-and-miss ability paired with ground-ball tendencies makes him an extremely attractive pitching prospect and this 20-year-old hurler could be a valuable reliever if the secondary stuff doesn’t develop enough for him to be an impact starter.

you obviously haven't read all of my other posts in this whole thread - the #15 prospect on nearly every other team would be better than the #3 prospect from ARI. Their #10 prospect would rank 20th on most other teams. I seriously didn't want the team to trade Escobar, but we could've chose a team with a prospect base to draw from. Especially since every major news site was referring to Escobar as the second most desired tradeable MI behind Machado for most of the last month.

And you obviously aren't understanding me. The Twins obviously made the decision to trade him. The reality is, this is his value.

Like Dozier?

Yep most likely. Duke, Erv, Lynn, all of them.

The deal the Twins got is fine. Escobar's numbers were trending down, he was having a career year, he had an expiring contract, he could resign this offseason, and the Twins got a couple prospects with upside. 

 

Masiel will likely be used as trade bait in the next few years at the deadline to get someone 

Hmmmm. I thought they'd wait another few days, but as more and more teams make early trades, you have to make a decision earlier, I guess.

 

The one pitcher sounds interesting, and is trending up. Looking at rankings from the beginning of the year, versus the updated ones (FG will be doing their team updates in a week or so), seems like a bad idea.

 

I would have preferred a AA player too, but maybe they were not offered one......

 

LOL....you guys.  

 

http://cdn1.alloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Emma-Stone-Freaking-Out.gif

 

Good Lord.

 

I mean...do REALLY think Escobar on an expiring contract is worth 1 top ten prospect?  

 

C'mon.

The prospect rankings of the 3 prospects acquired add up to 30. If they'd reduced that to just 1 prospect, he'd have been #10.

C'mon. It's just math.

For actual content:
FG was pretty positive in their off/earlyseason prospect list on Jhoan specifically...

Duran’s delivery is silky smooth and he generates big heat, sitting 93-96 and touching 99. His strike-throwing ability and secondary stuff were both better when I saw him this spring, with the slider and changeup each flashing plus. Duran has some maturity issues — or at least he did last year — but if he were a college righty with this stuff he’d probably go somewhere in the first round.

Adios, Eduardo. My favorite player the last few years. I really hope he comes back next year. If not, nothing but good memories. Easy to be a fan of someone who demonstrates such joy in playing the game. 

 

From Fangraphs on 7/26/2018:

 

Gabriel Maciel, CF, Arizona Diamondbacks (Profile)
Level: Low-A   Age: 19   Org Rank: 18   FV: 40
Line: 2-for-4, 2B

Notes
The 19-year-old Brazilian has hit in every July game in which he’s played and is riding an 18-game streak, including multi-hit games in eight of his past 10. Maciel was hitting .249/.336/.305 on July 1 and is now at .291/.367/.338. He’s a plus-plus running center fielder with very limited physicality, but he understands what his offensive approach has to be to reach base and he has played well-executed small-ball throughout his pro career. There’s risk that this style of hitting won’t play against better defenses and that Maciel winds up as a bench outfielder.

 

From Fangraphs on 6/18/2018:

Jhoan Duran, RHP, Diamondbacks: If you’re looking for a deep-ish sleeper to keep an eye on, Duran is a name to know. He has a great pitcher’s frame but room to continue to get stronger and perhaps pick up even more velo. He’s already in the 94-98 mph range with his fastball, though, and it’s really the secondary offerings (breaking ball, change) that need the most focus. As is, Duran uses his height to create excellent downward plane on his heater and most hitters simply pound the ball into the air. He can miss bats, too, and has whiffed 47 batters in 41 innings since joining low-A ball in early May. The swing-and-miss ability paired with ground-ball tendencies makes him an extremely attractive pitching prospect and this 20-year-old hurler could be a valuable reliever if the secondary stuff doesn’t develop enough for him to be an impact starter.

 

I feel a little better after reading this report on Duran. This is a very good trade if this guy turns out to be an 8th inning guy or closer. It's a great trade if he becomes an "impact starter". 

 

It will look even better when they resign Escobar next year.

Edited July 27, 20188 yr by Major Leauge Ready

Great in 2022 when he makes his MLB debut him and Romero and Gonsalves and Graterol can be traded so the Twins can get some more A-level prospects 

When the Twins traded Liriano to the White Sox, who among us thought the Sox's young utility infielder would become a star? The general reaction to the trade was we got a bag of balls. We will only know in time if this trade today was bad or good. It looks more promising than what the Mets got for Cabrera.

 

I seem to remember a story about someone trading a prize bull (or was it an old cow) for 3 magic beans. Here's to hoping one of the beans sprouts.

A few people around here seem to be more concerned over where these guys are rated, rather than the results they're putting up on the field this year.

 

So, if the scouting reports and 2018 stats aren't enough to ease your hurt feelings, Baseball America apparently moved Duran into the D-Backs Top-10 list on their most recent update.

 

Rankings mean nothing compared to on-field production. Let us never forget that Baseball Prospectus in 2012 rated Robbie Grossman as the #76 prospect in baseball.

I like it. Good job FO. We'll be happy to have this organization depth in a couple years. It'll be fun watching Escobar contribute to a playoff team.

Edited July 27, 20188 yr by launchingthrees