You cannot assume that regardless you trade him or not.

At least you are getting something back for him this way, instead of letting him walk.

Don't trade him if they could not get back a major league ready prospect similar to Mejia because it's not worth it. Most of the prospects do not make it to the major league.

 

I thought players wanted to win?
Wouldn't giving him a chance to win be a favorable look to free agents?

NY Yankees always win, pretty much every season.

Not every players want to play for NY though.

Sometimes feeling is also important. Money is not everything.

NY Yankees always win, pretty much every season.

Not every players want to play for NY though.

Sometimes feeling is also important. Money is not everything.

Where did I mention money?

 

Most of the prospects do not make it to the major league.

 

And this is a matter of attitude. 

 

For example:  Who would you rather stink up the Twins bullpen right now?  Matt Belisle or Kohl Stewart?

 

I'd take Stewart.  One might find out something about him before he is gone with the wind as a MiLB FA next off-season

 

If you want to extend him...what do you offer?  4/40M?

 

Why is that?  

Let me bet, if Escobar gets traded and comes back to the Twins next season, I will leave the country.

trading Escobar would be the same mistake they made when they let Cuduyer walk. That leadership void was not recovered until they signed Tori Hunter again you lose Escobar and what little you have in that Clubhouse is gone.

Escobar needs to stay. He is a solid ML player. He may not hit this way next year, but overall he's been a solid player and nothing short of an all-star in the clubhouse and off the field. Unless you are getting a pitcher who slots into the rotation right now (which Eddie the Stick is probably not going to) or a third baseman that can play right now (again, probably not happening) I think you need to keep him. Offer him an QO and if he doesn't accept, then you can still continue to negotiate with his agent and if some other team signs him, you get a draft pick. Even if he accepts, while the one year deal would be a high salary, the Twins have plenty of money to spend.

 

That's fine, that's his right as a FA.  But the future of the Twins requires them to at least explore moving him.

How much of the 'future' can this trade bring in for the Twins? Is it worth losing heart and soul of the team? That's the question.

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by jun

 

Where did I mention money?

Sorry I meant winning. winning = money

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by jun

 

trading Escobar would be the same mistake they made when they let Cuduyer walk. That leadership void was not recovered until they signed Tori Hunter again you lose Escobar and what little you have in that Clubhouse is gone.

Based on how garbage this team has been playing and how little effort some of the players seem to be giving it, I'm pretty sure the clubhouse is already gone. And if it isn't gone, why would we want to maintain the sort of clubhouse culture that currently exists and is providing us with the embarrassing quality of play that we've been witnessing all season?

 

If you want to extend him...what do you offer?  4/40M?

3/36M sounds reasonable.

 

And this is a matter of attitude. 

 

For example:  Who would you rather stink up the Twins bullpen right now?  Matt Belisle or Kohl Stewart?

 

I'd take Stewart.  One might find out something about him before he is gone with the wind as a MiLB FA next off-season

Escobar is a veteran. They certainly like veterans. He is no Belisle though. Not even close. Do the best to extend him, extend him for what he deserves (3/36M), if he still wants to test the market, trade him for the best return possible. Stewart is way too inconsistent. His ceiling might be a long reliever in the major.

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by jun

I highly doubt Kohl Stewart will be in a bullpen in the majors. He just isn't that good; probably should have stuck with football.

Not fielding and considering trade offers on anyone, with the exception of Berrios, would be a huge mistake.

 

Obviously, don't give anyone away, but you have to be realistic. Letting short-term contracts rot on a deeply flawed team isn't accomplishing anything other than milking a few more clicks and ticket sales in the short-term, at best. At least pick up a few lottery tickets and give us a chance down the road.

 

People joke about the lottery being a poor retirement plan. But, which situation is more likely to pay off, a lottery ticking or lighting the dollar on fire?

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by Darius

I highly doubt Kohl Stewart will be in a bullpen in the majors. He just isn't that good; probably should have stuck with football.

Yeah, because a college scholarship worth $120k and CTE beats a multi-million dollar signing bonus to play baseball for a living.

 

I hope you're not working for Edward Jones, or anything like that.

 

Based on how garbage this team has been playing and how little effort some of the players seem to be giving it, I'm pretty sure the clubhouse is already gone. And if it isn't gone, why would we want to maintain the sort of clubhouse culture that currently exists and is providing us with the embarrassing quality of play that we've been witnessing all season?

Eds are not the problem. Letting Ed walk can only make the matter worse. The problem is not enough Eds on the team.

The only veterans we should be, at the very least, thinking about holding onto are Escobar, Lynn, and Pressly based only on my expectation that they’re more likely to make positive contributions in 2019 then the others. That being said, depending on the return, all 3 could be dealt and life would move on. Although I’m not sure how I’d cope with an Escobar trade.

I would offer him a 3 year extension for $12-15 per year. If that doesn't get it done, trade him.

How much of the 'future' can this trade bring in for the Twins? Is it worth losing heart and soul of the team? That's the question.

I value clubhouse chemistry, but right now this clubhouse is producing losses. Everyone loves Eddie, but the duty of the FO is to field talent. They would be negligent not to see what kind of talent Esco’s season might yield.

 

I value clubhouse chemistry, but right now this clubhouse is producing losses. Everyone loves Eddie, but the duty of the FO is to field talent. They would be negligent not to see what kind of talent Esco’s season might yield.

What's the best case scenario? Getting a prospect who might one day be as good as Escobar? Salary is zero issue for the next several years. I'll take the known quantity. 

What's the best case scenario? Getting a prospect who might one day be as good as Escobar? Salary is zero issue for the next several years. I'll take the known quantity.

 

He’s not a known quantity come November.

 

Eds are not the problem. Letting Ed walk can only make the matter worse. The problem is not enough Eds on the team.

I agree that Escobar hasn't been a part of the problem. I just meant that poster made it seem like if we traded Escobar we'd be ruining a good clubhouse environment, and I was saying I don't think there is a good clubhouse environment to ruin. So, for me at least, the whole leadership/good clubhouse presence angle is a non factor in any Escobar trade discussions. I know the players and fans all love the guy and he's definitely a good clubhouse guy, but I do not care about that at all if we're not winning games. 

Eddie has always been, to me, a player that had to fight for playing time and for respect. Obtained from the White Sox in 2012 in mid season, I believe he was viewed by the organization strictly as the utility player and probably 25th man. During 2013 to 2016 he seemed to solidify that role- hitting from the .220’s to the .270’s.

Last year, however, with Sano’s struggles and injuries, he blossomed into a player that I bet frankly surprised the Twins. He produced career highs in AB’s, hits, runs, rbi’s, SB’s, and homeruns, and played a terrific 3B.

The first half of this year has seen him eclipse last year’s production to the point that he is a possible selection to the year’s All-Star game.

OK, OK, you say. We ALL know this. Get to your point, Curt.

 

1. If traded, we would have no one to play 3rd the rest of this year, and most assuredly next year as well, and

I think the Twins know that.

2. To this point in his career, let’s just say Eddie hasn’t made the “big Bucks.” So, therefore Eddie can hardly

wait to get to free agency, so he can finally be PAID.

3. For this reason, I’d offer an extension immediately (3-33 reasonable) and I think he would do it. Why?

a) his remarkable climb has happened so rapidly, I think he realizes it could go in the other direction just

as fast, and the free agent offers might be down to only a drizzle if he chose free agency.

See Point 1 above. The Twins have no one capable of playing 3rd for the remainder of this year AND

NEXT YEAR.

c) He’s a much better value for the Twins than Dozier

d) He is the Twins’ clubhouse leader, without a doubt, and I would go as far as to call him a fairly popular

Celebrity in the Twin Cities.

e) This is just a guess, but I think he likes this area, and I bet someone has already talked to him concer-

ning possible business opportunities after his career is over.

 

Get the checkbook out Mr, Pohlad, and get him signed now!

I haven't read any of the previous 145 posts. I don't know if I'll be able to slog through all that later or not. But in general I would not sell anyone who could be valuable in 2019. The team should be preparing for a big push next season because I think it's reasonable to expect that having Polanco, a rehabilitated Buxton, and a rehabilitated Sano in the lineup will produce a quantum leap in offensive production over this year's team. That means Dozier, Lynn, Rodney, and possibly Mauer should be the ones on the list to be traded. Escobar, as high as his value is right now, should not.

It’s pretty tough to get behind any position given we don’t know what type of contract it would take to keep him or what type of player we get back. We have to make assumptions. Let’s start with what will it take to keep him. I am going to assume 3/27. I doubt the Twins or any other team would make a $17M+ QO with the low cost infield depth we have. That money would be more valuable invest elsewhere.

In terms of return, Mejia or an even slightly better prospect seems reasonable. Escobar has been better this year than Nunez was the year we traded him and he was better last year as compared to the year prior to the Nunez trade.

 

Therefore, the benefit(s) of keeping him IMO is that they have a slightly better chance of signing him next year. The benefits are a prospect slightly better than Mejia and $9M to spend elsewhere. Put the $9M toward a really good bullpen arm. Plus, 6 years of an inexpensive #4 starter and there is just no way I can justify extending Escobar. Of course, the prospect might bust and it might be the next Corey Kluber or Noah Syndergaard. The $9M bullpen arm might be mediocre but Escobar could also return to his career numbers. Letting him go has a considerably higher potential upside. If the return is a better prospect than Mejia, sorry, I am trading Escobar unless I can sign him at 3/21.

In terms of return, Mejia or an even slightly better prospect seems reasonable. Escobar has been better this year than Nunez was the year we traded him and he was better last year as compared to the year prior to the Nunez trade.

I don't think you can count on a better prospect than Mejia. That deal was generally considered an overpay at the time. Just like if you have a reliever better than Matt Capps, you can't expect a better return than Wilson Ramos. More so than FA contracts, trades are very much context-dependent. There may not be an aggressive 2016 Giants or 2010 Twins team in this market, looking for a rental infielder.

 

Also note that Escobar is making about 3 times what Nunez made that season, and Nunez had an extra season of control. The 2017 Giants-Red Sox Nunez trade is probably worth looking at too. There Nunez brought back a recent 3rd round SP in high-A, ranked #18 in Boston's system, and a 17 year old lotto ticket pitcher.

Absolutely no way I would extend him right now. I am fairly confident we will see his offensive performance drift downward by the end of the season (his wRC+ has already fallen from 151 to 133 over the past 10 days), and the FA market was very reasonable last winter for this class of player. Even if you want him back, there is a real chance you could do it for $6-10 mil or something. Absolutely no need to guarantee him $27+ mil right now (which would also torpedo any trade value he might have next month). We have to let this play out.

 

Let me bet, if Escobar gets traded and comes back to the Twins next season, I will leave the country.

 

I can already see the potential loophole in this bet. It's going to require a term provision. 

 

 

 

I agree that Escobar hasn't been a part of the problem. I just meant that poster made it seem like if we traded Escobar we'd be ruining a good clubhouse environment, and I was saying I don't think there is a good clubhouse environment to ruin. So, for me at least, the whole leadership/good clubhouse presence angle is a non factor in any Escobar trade discussions. I know the players and fans all love the guy and he's definitely a good clubhouse guy, but I do not care about that at all if we're not winning games. 

I understand your point and I agree. I value clutchness over so called 'leadership'. That's the main reason why I would like to see Escobar back with the team. Trading him for a prospect who may never reach the major league just does not make much sense. Trading him can only make it harder to bring him back.