Starters can be hitters.... Not pitchers. I think they can find a DH and ok catcher for that price. Maybe two relief pitchers. But if they sign Escobar for that much, how many more players will they sign that matter? One? Maybe?

 

Sorry... I misunderstood "starter"

 

Given our current payroll ($130M-ish) and the amount of money we have committed for next year, plus the guys we are likely to retain via options and arbitration, we'll likely have about $65M to spend to get back to the $130M number

 

I doubt it, but anything is possible. 

 

Zach Cozart, who is actually a really good comp if you look at their careers, got 3/38 last offseason. 

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cozarza01.shtml

 

However Cozart is 2.5 years older than Escobar.

 

(Cozart didn't get a QO though)

 

Edited June 28, 20188 yr by amjgt

Jay Bruce is another good contract comp (again he is a little older than Escobar though)

 

What contract would you expect Escobar to get?

or

What contract extension would you max out at for him right now? 

No, unless someone blows you away.  And by that I don't mean someone similar to Mejia.

 

If necessary, I would offer the Mighty Mouse a QO, however, prefer to sign him to an extension this summer.

 

He is the heart, soul and pulse of this team.  

Sorry... I misunderstood "starter"

 

Given our current payroll ($130M-ish) and the amount of money we have committed for next year, plus the guys we are likely to retain via options and arbitration, we'll likely have about $65M to spend to get back to the $130M number

Does anyone really think the will get closer to that? Look at the free agent list....

Smart answer: Yes, they should trade him. I think teams recognize that he probably won't maintain this level of play, but he's still a really valuable player who is able to fit on a lot of teams given his ability to play multiple positions.

 

Heart answer: No way, never! Not for all the gold in Fort Knox.

Hanging onto Escobar is the kind of half move that has gotten this team where it is, imo.

 

Does anyone really think the will get closer to that? Look at the free agent list....

ESPN had Dozier as a top 10 free agent for 18/19, besides the top 3 (Manny, Harper and Kershaw) the other top free agents are 30+.

Hanging onto Escobar is the kind of half move that has gotten this team where it is, imo.

Disagree. Hanging on to guys like Escobar hurts us way less than hanging out hope on big reputations that don't fit real production. We haven't had enough players who could have returned much if anything that would have moved the needle.

 

For instance, would we better off with Nunez and whatever Sano would have brought in (probably a lot), or Sano in A and Mejia in AAA?

Shop him and trade him for the best offer.  Then tell him you're calling him on the first day of free agency to ask him back.

 

He's a free agent, why not trade him? You can sign him in the off season

 

Its riskier, though.  If the team that trades for him wants him, he could be more likely to sign there.

 

I'd keep him with a 3/40 offer.  If he doesn't want that, I'd go so far as giving him a $17.4 million qualifying offer.

 

Someone is giving him 3/45 this offseason. 

Yeah, so if you do the 17.4 qualifying offer and he signs elsewhere, you get a draft pick.

 

Disagree. Hanging on to guys like Escobar hurts us way less than hanging out hope on big reputations that don't fit real production. We haven't had enough players who could have returned much if anything that would have moved the needle.

For instance, would we better off with Nunez and whatever Sano would have brought in (probably a lot), or Sano in A and Mejia in AAA?

 

It's this argument that kept them from trading Perkins, or others.

 

How does holding onto this guy for 2-3 more months help this team compete long term?

 

If we are going to assume Lewis and Kirriloff and others go the way of Sano....which is what your last sentence reads as, there is no hope.

 

No one is trading Sano 2 years ago, no way, no how. That's not even a realistic thing to discuss. No one trades a 22 yo budding super star under control for 5 more years.

I'd pull an Aguillera 2.0: trade and re-sign him the off-season to be the starting second baseman or whereever else there might be need.

 

Smart answer: Yes, they should trade him. I think teams recognize that he probably won't maintain this level of play, but he's still a really valuable player who is able to fit on a lot of teams given his ability to play multiple positions.

 

Heart answer: No way, never! Not for all the gold in Fort Knox.

 

 

Well, I tend to believe that, although we got him for Frankie, so he was not that much in demand back then, he has improved every year since. Given the opportunity to play regularly, he has bloomed.  I don't think anyone who makes good once he got the shot should be talked about as "well, he will decline".  In my opinion, guys like Eduardo get better with the opportunity. Offer him 3/39. Stop talking about him like he is still a utility guy. He would start on many teams in MLB. Plus, he is a spark plug. We need those. 

 

 

 

Shop him and trade him for the best offer.  Then tell him you're calling him on the first day of free agency to ask him back.

 

Yeah, that will make free agents wanna play here.

 

 

 

Hanging onto Escobar is the kind of half move that has gotten this team where it is, imo.

 

Disagree completely.

 

Not identifying difference makers has hurt this team. And I think we moved Nunez because we already had Eduardo. 

 

Guys like Eduardo are found on practically every championship team.They make things happen.  So many look at players as pawns to be moved around on a chessboard. But you don't play baseball on a chessboard.  I look at guys like Eduardo as where to hit him in the order from 1-5. He is definitely playing somewhere if I am manager.

 

And THAT is why you keep him. 

 

 

 

I'd pull an Aguillera 2.0: trade and re-sign him the off-season to be the starting second baseman or whereever else there might be need.

But that assumes that he won't prefer playing in a different city. It assumes he would want to come back over staying in LA or some other place that might be a better place to play. You cannot assume he wants to come back T. 

 

Its riskier, though.  If the team that trades for him wants him, he could be more likely to sign there.

 

I'd keep him with a 3/40 offer.  If he doesn't want that, I'd go so far as giving him a $17.4 million qualifying offer.

That makes far more sense than spinning the cylinder and pointing at your temple. 

 

Disagree completely.

 

Not identifying difference makers has hurt this team. And I think we moved Nunez because we already had Eduardo. 

 

Guys like Eduardo are found on practically every championship team.They make things happen.  So many look at players as pawns to be moved around on a chessboard. But you don't play baseball on a chessboard.  I look at guys like Eduardo as where to hit him in the order from 1-5. He is definitely playing somewhere if I am manager.

 

And THAT is why you keep him. 

 

but they can trade him and then sign him......NO ONE is saying he's not good right now, some of us are saying he's more valuable next year and beyond in trade.

 

But that assumes that he won't prefer playing in a different city. It assumes he would want to come back over staying in LA or some other place that might be a better place to play. You cannot assume he wants to come back T. 

 

Then why would he sign an extension w/o being traded? If he wants to be someplace else, he'll be someplace else whether they trade him or not.

If they think they can re-sign him for a reasonable contract next season don't trade him.  I think he is a very good replacement for Dozier as the team begins it's transition to Gordon and Polanco.  He can also slide over to 3rd if Sano either never comes back or ends up at 1st base if he does make it back.  

 

Unless the return is something that will improve the team in the relatively near future I hold on to him.  He seems to be too good of a guy to have in the clubhouse and is a good baseball player, which right now the Twins have very few of.

It's this argument that kept them from trading Perkins, or others.

 

How does holding onto this guy for 2-3 more months help this team compete long term?

 

If we are going to assume Lewis and Kirriloff and others go the way of Sano....which is what your last sentence reads as, there is no hope.

 

No one is trading Sano 2 years ago, no way, no how. That's not even a realistic thing to discuss. No one trades a 22 yo budding super star under control for 5 more years.

Budding superstar? In retrospect, would you put Sano's minor league resume up against Trout? Cab? Griffey Jr? Those are Super stars. Perk was an All Star closer and left handed. Name one offer that we turned down that hurt this team.

 

No one would trade away a blue chipper? Moncada, Delmon, Will Meyers, Wilson Ramos. k that one is a bad example, but you get it.

 

It's not 1 or the other. It's about constantly acquiring more talent. I doubt Escobar returns an equal talent. So why bother? We still have to field a team, teach young kids how to be pros, and field a roster next season. Trading and resigning isn't as easy as extending.

 

Budding superstar? In retrospect, would you put Sano's minor league resume up against Trout? Cab? Griffey Jr? Those are Super stars. Perk was an All Star closer and left handed. Name one offer that we turned down that hurt this team.

No one would trade away a blue chipper? Moncada, Delmon, Will Meyers, Wilson Ramos. k that one is a bad example, but you get it.

It's not 1 or the other. It's about constantly acquiring more talent. I doubt Escobar returns an equal talent. So why bother? We still have to field a team, teach young kids how to be pros, and field a roster next season. Trading and resigning isn't as easy as extending.

 

But you can't make the decision in hindsight, that's my point....no one trades a guy like Sano to keep Nunez. 

 

Why bother? Because he's gone after this year, and you get nothing for him (or a draft pick, maybe). Is there any evidence trading and signing as a free agent is harder? It might happen less often, but that doesn't mean it is harder.

 

but they can trade him and then sign him......NO ONE is saying he's not good right now, some of us are saying he's more valuable next year and beyond in trade.

But you are putting yourself into the position that he may like the team that you send him to, and you open it up to any team courting him in free agency.

 

That is a lot of variables to introduce into the equation.  

 

I'd tell him we want to thank you and reward your contribution and keep you a Twin. Never mind those slinky girls waiting to dance with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why would he sign an extension w/o being traded? If he wants to be someplace else, he'll be someplace else whether they trade him or not.

 

If it is handled right, his eyes won't wander. That's why

 

If it is handled right, his eyes won't wander. That's why

 

You don't think he's thinking about FA right now? I'm guessing he's been thinking about it, and where he might go, for 1-2 years now. His eyes are already wandering, and they should be, for his sake, as is true of every FA to be.

 

Yeah, that will make free agents wanna play here.

 

They traded Aguilera in '95 then resigned him as a FA in the offseason. Signed Molitor, Roberto Kelly, Dave Hollins that offseason, too.

 

Signing a FA to more than one year then trading him in the same season is bad mojo, but that's not what's being proposed here.

 

Yeah, that will make free agents wanna play here.

 

You mean before or after they see that we went 70-92?

 

How does keeping Escobar change that equation at all?

 

You mean before or after they see that we went 70-92?

 

How does keeping Escobar change that equation at all?

 

I'm not saying it does.  But treating  people like cattle does little to make them wanna play for your organization. Treating them like a valuable member of the family is what loyalty is about. And loyalty is a door that swings both ways. When players earn a raise and promotion, give it to them. And do it in a way that they feel good about it for more than monetary reasons. 

 

This organization needs to become a place where players want to come. We are no longer Calvin Griffith's plantation.