Article: Planning To Fail

[jimmer]

 

Fair enough.  I'm sure even plenty of the "May to the rotation" people thought the rotation depth was a little better than  Santiago, Albers, and Dean starting a series in late August... 

Um, er, ummmmmmm.

[clutterheart]

 

Now imagine, a positive upbeat fan trying to follow his favorite team and having to wade through a sea of this sh*t every day. And before anyone tells me that I'm out of touch with reality let me say that to a large extent, reality conforms to your attitude and mind-set. Reality is what you make it, or as ObiWan said, many of the truths we cling to depend on your point of view. I don't know, maybe there's just a hell of a lot of bitter, miserable, depressed people in Minnesota and on this site.

 

If you feel positive and upbeat about this team, then write a post about the good things you see. I am sure lots of people would enjoy reading your unique takes.  

 

But folks like Nick are trying to write multiple articles a week about this team looking at many angles.  I think even the most upbeat person would be challenged to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Especially when the evidence that there are some real structural problems within this organization keeps piling up.    

Edited August 29, 2016 by clutterheart

[Nick Nelson]

 

No offense to Nick intended, but IMHO it's sh*t like this article that have made this site almost unreadable. The fact that I still come here so often speaks to what a strong fan of the Twins I am, and certainly not to the tone and quality of the content bring posted. It has pretty much been reduced to the following: Every move made by the Twins is sh*t. I know better than seasoned professionals what is right for this team. MY priorities are what matter, and if the team's don't align with them then they are wrong. If a player isn't performing like an All-Star RIGHT NOW, he's crap and not worth a roster spot. Anyone under the age of 25 is ok, anyone older is crap. If an All-Star player like Dozier or Mauer go through a stretch of rough play for a period of weeks, he's crap, cooked, worthless. Like all baseball video games have shown, a player performs at the same level all the time. And if his rating dips below All-Star, you trade him for a prospect that will always turn into a new All-Star, because that's how player development actually works. Now imagine, a positive upbeat fan trying to follow his favorite team and having to wade through a sea of this sh*t every day. And before anyone tells me that I'm out of touch with reality let me say that to a large extent, reality conforms to your attitude and mind-set. Reality is what you make it, or as ObiWan said, many of the truths we cling to depend on your point of view. I don't know, maybe there's just a hell of a lot of bitter, miserable, depressed people in Minnesota and on this site.

Reality? Reality is that this is one of the worst teams in baseball for half a decade running. Reality is that the Twins can't put people in the seats of their beautiful new stadium 5 years after it was built. Reality is a long-standing trend of poor planning and ineffective adaptations leading to the situation we are currently in. Reality is that interest in baseball around this town has dipped so low that I can't even engage friends and family members in conversations about the team anymore because they have stopped caring.

 

Reality is that as a lifelong Twins fans, these things are extremely vexing to me, and I know I'm not alone.

 

I realize that for most readers this sport is a hobby, and a pastime. Some people don't like any level of negativity involved in their enjoyment of the game and if that's the case for you (as it appears to be) there's plenty of stuff on this site for you to consume. Heck, there are plenty of fluff stories in the MSM pubs if that's your thing. If you find the site unreadable because the tone is dictated by the quality of the baseball being presented to paying customers, perhaps your frustration is misdirected? 

[Nick Nelson]

Also: Everyone is welcome to blog on this site, Joe. I see you have zero posts. If you want to change the tone of the conversation, then do it. 

[howieramone2]

 

Fair enough.  I'm sure even plenty of the "May to the rotation" people thought the rotation depth was a little better than  Santiago, Albers, and Dean starting a series in late August... 

Santiago has a pretty fair track record, and will be a starter somewhere in the majors come the start of 2017. No idea where Berrios will be. Interesting spin on Dean, he has positioned himself to garner the same number of votes for ROY as Berrios when the team votes this off-season.

[Deduno Abides]

No offense to Nick intended, but IMHO it's sh*t like this article that have made this site almost unreadable. The fact that I still come here so often speaks to what a strong fan of the Twins I am, and certainly not to the tone and quality of the content bring posted.

 

It has pretty much been reduced to the following:

 

Every move made by the Twins is sh*t. I know better than seasoned professionals what is right for this team. MY priorities are what matter, and if the team's don't align with them then they are wrong.

 

If a player isn't performing like an All-Star RIGHT NOW, he's crap and not worth a roster spot. Anyone under the age of 25 is ok, anyone older is crap. If an All-Star player like Dozier or Mauer go through a stretch of rough play for a period of weeks, he's crap, cooked, worthless.

 

Like all baseball video games have shown, a player performs at the same level all the time. And if his rating dips below All-Star, you trade him for a prospect that will always turn into a new All-Star, because that's how player development actually works.

 

 

Now imagine, a positive upbeat fan trying to follow his favorite team and having to wade through a sea of this sh*t every day.

And before anyone tells me that I'm out of touch with reality let me say that to a large extent, reality conforms to your attitude and mind-set. Reality is what you make it, or as ObiWan said, many of the truths we cling to depend on your point of view. I don't know, maybe there's just a hell of a lot of bitter, miserable, depressed people in Minnesota and on this site.

Joe, almost always I would agree with this type of position, but this time I don't. Here are some of the reasons.

 

1. All posters on this site are fans.

2. When a team is 49-81 after several years of mediocrity, the ratio of negative comments to positive comments is going to be at least 4:1. That's not bitter, miserable Minnesotans; that's just people. Often, it's actually surprising how many positive comments there are.

3. Many (all?) of the issues raised by Nick are not hindsight. They were generally-shared concerns at the time they were done, all of which worked out about as poorly as expected. Many more things could have been raised, such as having Kepler sit on the bench during April.

4. Despite the continuing team problems, there still seems to be a veneer of not facing reality on the part of management, with the possible exception of hyper-negative reality in its treatment of the youngest and most-talented players. "I don't believe in rebuilding." "We're going to be a playoff team this year." "We need former Twins with nothing left in the tank for clubhouse leadership." "I'd trade Wilson Ramos for Matt Capps again." "Terry Ryan is staying as long as he wants the job." "Total system failure, but don't blame upper management." "We have a good analytics program." "The next GM has to keep Molitor." "We're not going to clean house." "It's a good thing that we waited so long to implement video for our minor league teams." If there was a greater sense that the team had its arms around the problems and a clear plan to address them, many of the angst-driven comments that you don't enjoy would go away.

 

I did enjoy reading your post. Made me think.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Deduno Abides

[howieramone2]

 

If you feel positive and upbeat about this team, then write a post about the good things you see. I am sure lots of people would enjoy reading your unique takes.  

 

But folks like Nick are trying to write multiple articles a week about this team looking at many angles.  I think even the most upbeat person would be challenged to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Especially when the evidence that there are some real structural problems within this organization keeps piling up.    

No one is asking him to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Some of us would be happy to find something positive on this board once in a blue moon.

Edited August 29, 2016 by howieramone2

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Interesting spin on Dean, he has positioned himself to garner the same number of votes for ROY as Berrios when the team votes this off-season.

The team votes on rookie of the year?

 

Also, "spin on Dean"?  The context of the comment was the team's decision to bring May back to the bullpen at the beginning of July.  It has nothing to do with Berrios.

[alarp33]

 

Santiago has a pretty fair track record, and will be a starter somewhere in the majors come the start of 2017. No idea where Berrios will be. Interesting spin on Dean, he has positioned himself to garner the same number of votes for ROY as Berrios when the team votes this off-season.

 

 

What spin did I put on Dean? That no one expected things to go so poorly he would be making multiple starts?

[Otto von Ballpark]

FWIW, a Palka or Walker recall today would have provided a fine positive story...

[Nick Nelson]

 

No one is asking him to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Some of us would be happy to find something positive on this board once in a blue moon.

I would suggest you aren't looking very hard. You realize Seth writes on this site even more than I do, right? 

[USAFChief]

 

Also: Everyone is welcome to blog on this site, Joe. I see you have zero posts. If you want to change the tone of the conversation, then do it. 

"Be the change you want to see."

 

I read that somewhere.

[wsnydes]

 

No one is asking him to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Some of us would be happy to find something positive on this board once in a blue moon.

Didn't we just get a really nice piece on Alex Wimmers the other day?

[USAFChief]

 

Santiago has a pretty fair track record, and will be a starter somewhere in the majors come the start of 2017. No idea where Berrios will be. Interesting spin on Dean, he has positioned himself to garner the same number of votes for ROY as Berrios when the team votes this off-season.

Don't be so negative all the time.

[jimmer]

 

I would suggest you aren't looking very hard. You realize Seth writes on this site even more than I do, right? 

not only that, but your articles are most often very much on the optimistic side as well.  So once in awhile, your articles are less than optimistic and you get slammed for it? 

 

Some people on here don't want to face reality.

[Loosey]

I think you might have touched on this in the article or maybe it was another commentor but one of the biggest planning fails this team has made in the last 5 years is not going into a full rebuild.  I know you can't bring up a draft pick instantly, but the Twins tried to cling to mediocrity until the prospects got up here and the margin for error was razor thin.  Mediocre players are usually neither great nor terrible, but often times they are good or bad. 

 

2011 was the 1st 90 loss season the excuses came out fast and furious about it being due to injuries and bad luck. - Fine, move on and right the ship in 2012.

 

2012 was just as bad if not worse.  The injuries excuse wasn't going to fly anymore.  This team was toast and needed to start a complete rebuild - Career years were wasted and the team was unwilling to used them as assets (Willingham).

 

2013 the team did very little, brought up some players to fill out a roster, signed a few veterans to short term deals, traded Morneau with his value as low as possible.  It LOOKED like the rebuild was on.

 

2014 - Signed Nolasco and Phil Hughes.... two medicore pitchers who cost a decent amount of money, for a long time.  Rebuild over.  This is when the planning went off track in my opinion.  A rebuilding team (which they were) would just use AAAA pitchers or sign vets to 1 year deals to get through the rough years.  I think there was likely business decisions a part of this as attendance was down and winning solves that.  But Nolasco was no better than many cheaper guys, and Hughes has one nice season, which he was then extended for (also extended Suzuki).

 

2015 - Signed Santana (3 starting pitchers in 2 years), Extended Phil Hughes.  Team exceeded expectations and had a winning season.  Gave perception that the team had arrived and was ready to make the next step to compete for titles again.  Had a new wave of prospects ready to come up and build toward the future.

 

2016 - Didn't fix their weakest spots (bullpen, catcher). Didn't move Plouffe. Signed a repetitive piece in Park, Moved players all over the place because they thought they had "too many good players".  Prospects have not worked out yet and veterans have faltered.  

 

Basically they lucked into 2015, did nothing in prior years to improve the young talent outside of the draft and now are stuck in a weird place now.  One year removed from being competitive, but in a season in which they could end up with the worst record in baseball. 

 

Here's to a new GM/President of Baseball Ops putting together a plan.

[ashbury]

No one is asking him to find positive things to post 2-4 times a week. Some of us would be happy to find something positive on this board once in a blue moon.

Brian Dozier is having an all-star caliber season, although it took him a while to get rolling so got no consideration in July. Max Kepler is having a productive rookie season. Joe Mauer is hitting well enough to be a major league starter at an offensively challenging position. Ervin Santana has quietly put together a very professional season. Brandon Kintzler has been a pleasant surprise in the bullpen and has even shouldered the role of closer when desperation demanded it.

 

I think that about covers it. Somebody please split these into separate articles and flesh them out. Oops, maybe some of these have already been written; I guess that what makes it a blue moon.

[Nick Nelson]

 

not only that, but your articles are most often very much on the optimistic side as well.  So once in awhile, your articles are less than optimistic and you get slammed for it? 

 

Some people on here don't want to face reality.

Appreciate you saying that, as I do make a concerted effort to balance the positive and negative. Finding the bright side gets a little tough when things are as dire as they are currently. 

Most people come to this site looking for open, independent and candid coverage. In times like these, that means calling out mistakes and criticizing processes that continue to lead the team in the wrong direction.

 

Evidently some readers believe all of the content should be tailored to their own personal tastes and preferences. 

[Joe A. Preusser]

Reality? Reality is that this is one of the worst teams in baseball for half a decade running. Reality is that the Twins can't put people in the seats of their beautiful new stadium 5 years after it was built. Reality is a long-standing trend of poor planning and ineffective adaptations leading to the situation we are currently in. Reality is that interest in baseball around this town has dipped so low that I can't even engage friends and family members in conversations about the team anymore because they have stopped caring.

 

Reality is that as a lifelong Twins fans, these things are extremely vexing to me, and I know I'm not alone.

 

I realize that for most readers this sport is a hobby, and a pastime. Some people don't like any level of negativity involved in their enjoyment of the game and if that's the case for you (as it appears to be) there's plenty of stuff on this site for you to consume. Heck, there are plenty of fluff stories in the MSM pubs if that's your thing. If you find the site unreadable because the tone is dictated by the quality of the baseball being presented to paying customers, perhaps your frustration is misdirected?

 

Nick, I'm not an ostrich with my head stuck in the sand. I dont want to just read fluff pieces and feel good stories. I want baseball content. I am fully, painfully aware of how bad this team has been. The pitching has been gut wrenching. The fielding dismal at times. I am capable of great frustration with this team. Where I start having issues though, is when people allow this sub-par record/performance to color their perceptions of EVERY SINGLE move, decision, act or thought made by the front office, coaching staff, or anyone else involved with the org. I get it, it's been a long time since we've had a great team. But every relation is not a correlation. Every issue you raised in the original post i would bet has come up comparably with anothwr player and org this year or in then recent past. I bet our feelings about them wouldn't be quite so negative if they weren't ties to our angst about our own org. To me that speaks to a severe lack of objectivity. Just because Bux struggled, it doesn't mean coaching, player development, he's a bust, etc. It might mean any one of those things, or it might mean none of them. No one on this site is qualified to make that determination, or at least very few. Yet time and time again with frustrating situations like that one, it's an automatically over-negative response.

You mentioned I don't post much. I used to post multiple times a day here. Now I just stick to game threads and the Simpsons caption contest. I just couldn't take the inherent, automatic negative responses to literally everything I posted. I've never blogged before, maybe I should give that a try.

Lastly, I want to say there was a reason I started my last post indicating there was no disrespect intended to you. I have generally enjoyed reading you over the years. Actually, I followed you here from Nicks Twins Blog.

[KirbyDome89]

 In a vacuum I liked the Park signing and saw it as a sign the Twins were attempting to change the way they approach free agency. He was more than productive while he was healthy and at 3 million a year it looked like they finally had a savvy signing. Who knows exactly when he was injured but it likely was around the time his numbers plummeted. Vargas wasn't exactly a stud last year during his time up so I didn't have a problem with them bringing in Park, especially with his contract.  The problem became their inability to move Plouffe in the offseason. Reportedly there wasn't much interest which forced Sano into RF and we all know how that disaster ended. With Plouffe still on the roster after the trade deadline I don't think its unfair to question how willing the team was to part ways. This is unfortunate given how poorly the Sano to RF experiment went. I realize all the decision to bring Park in can't be judged solely in a vacuum. I think initially it was a good signing, but subsequent moves (non moves really) negated much of the positive. 

[Negativity Police]

Attention all TD Posters: you have the right to remain positive. Everything is perfectly fine. Remember, loyal fans, you cannot spell Twin without 'win.' So, there's that. 

[Nick Nelson]

Re: Joe. Ok, fair enough. I understand the general annoyance with people who are constantly negative and critical, but those exist in all walks of life and they're going to be more active at times like this.

 

I simply disagree with the characterization of this site's content as slanting unnecessarily or unfairly negative. I really do not believe that's the case. 

[mazeville]

I can't agree with this post enough. 

 

This team doesn't appear to have an identity and the FO doesn't appear to have a plan, or at least a good one. Too many question markets. Too many weird decisions. Too many holes. 

 

I'm really hopeful that the new president of baseball operations will fix things. But I've got a sneaking suspicion it will take some time. 

[Deduno Abides]

FWIW, a Palka or Walker recall today would have provided a fine positive story...

There is a good, positive story about Granite. Unfortunately, it does not say that he was promoted to MN.

[alarp33]

Wasn't most of the negativity this offseason that there didn't seem to be any sort of plan?  And that's basically exactly how things turned out...?  Is that negativity that people looked at this roster and thought "what are they doing"? 

 

 

[Minniman]

Terry Ryan thought he could re-create the 1987 Twins story.

 

Guess what? That was much harder to do in the real world than it was on paper.

 

Trying it without Mount Crushmore, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, and Cy Young candidates makes it look like a foolish attempt.

 

[mazeville]

 

No offense to Nick intended, but IMHO it's sh*t like this article that have made this site almost unreadable. The fact that I still come here so often speaks to what a strong fan of the Twins I am, and certainly not to the tone and quality of the content bring posted. It has pretty much been reduced to the following: Every move made by the Twins is sh*t. I know better than seasoned professionals what is right for this team. MY priorities are what matter, and if the team's don't align with them then they are wrong. If a player isn't performing like an All-Star RIGHT NOW, he's crap and not worth a roster spot. Anyone under the age of 25 is ok, anyone older is crap. If an All-Star player like Dozier or Mauer go through a stretch of rough play for a period of weeks, he's crap, cooked, worthless. Like all baseball video games have shown, a player performs at the same level all the time. And if his rating dips below All-Star, you trade him for a prospect that will always turn into a new All-Star, because that's how player development actually works. Now imagine, a positive upbeat fan trying to follow his favorite team and having to wade through a sea of this sh*t every day. And before anyone tells me that I'm out of touch with reality let me say that to a large extent, reality conforms to your attitude and mind-set. Reality is what you make it, or as ObiWan said, many of the truths we cling to depend on your point of view. I don't know, maybe there's just a hell of a lot of bitter, miserable, depressed people in Minnesota and on this site.

 

Wait. You're complaining about a post complaining about moves made by a team that is well on its way to its fifth 90-loss season in six years -- and quite possibly a 100-loss season?

 

Should people on this site just cheerlead every move they make? Really?

 

In my view, bloggers on this site -- and too many fans -- have been TOO patient with this team.

 

The perfect example of this was Terry Ryan. Many writers on this site gave him a pass when it came to constructing this team, even though he made several questionable free agent signings at a time when the team should have focused on development. They gave him all the credit for building the farm system even as other teams that were big losers at the time the Twins made their freefall have surged into contention behind the emergence of young players. 

 

Don't like all the negativity? Root for a winning team. 

 

 

[Jham]

There's a difference between questioning moves and stating opinions as fact.  Nick certainly has a right to question some of the moves in light of the results.  Statements like "the team did not have a plan" are inflammatory and untrue.  The plan did not work, obviously.  And there are a number of reasons for that, but don't say there's no plan.
 

In reality, we don't even know whether Terry Ryan was dismissed because he wanted to go young and rebuild, or rebuffed rebuild efforts and wanted to ride things out with vets.  

 

Would the team have been any better if Plouffe had been traded, and Sano was given 3rd base to start the season?  I'm less than convinced.

 

Would the team have been better if we had moved May into the rotation and cut Ricky Nolasco?  I again ask this thread to find 1 piece of evidence that throwing out of the pen is somehow more stressful and more likely to cause injury than starting.  I think it's ludicrous.  I think May always had limitations.  I'd move him to the rotation, but can't say keeping him in the pen was a mistake, per se.

Would the team be better if we never signed Park?  Extremely doubtful.  Power hitters are expensive.  We've got him for 3 more years.  He's not hurting the team, and could still be a net plus i a year or 2.  Anyone suggesting Vargas is a .950 OPS guy and that they knew all along might be lying.  He got sent down as he was likely regressing back to his expected level.

 

The biggest issues regarding the team's failures are all pitching related.  The team apparently did the right thing not extending Gibson.  Santana looks like a legit signing.  We traded Nolasco.  Millone had a career worst year.  May kept getting injured.  Berrios is a disaster, Meyer was a disaster, Hughes was a disaster.  We have an ability to improve the rotation, but we have to trade Buxton, Sano, Kepler, Gordon, or Dozier.  It sucks, but that's the truth.  And we've done none of those things.  If all 5 of those guys are still in the organization next season, I'll consider that a pretty big failure and a lack of planning.  This year was not a disaster on all fronts.  It's a disaster involving pitching and defense.  All the other stuff is needlessly piling on.

[ashbury]

Don't like all the negativity? Root for a winning team. 

Good luck with that. I was at Fenway last night (not particularly rooting for either team, just enjoying the game), and a shaky starter combined with the bullpen to cough up a lead in the sixth. Leather-lunged guy behind me was howling about Dumb-browski until it was time to leave to catch our train.

[mazeville]

 

Good luck with that. I was at Fenway last night (not particularly rooting for either team, just enjoying the game), and a shaky starter combined with the bullpen to cough up a lead in the sixth. Leather-lunged guy behind me was howling about Dumb-browski until it was time to leave to catch our train.

 

Yeah, but that's Boston. BOSTON. That comparison doesn't count ...