Article: Urgency To Trade Plouffe Growing

[nicksaviking]

 

Problem is, by the same token, most teams are not yet committed to being buyers. We saw the steep price the Padres paid to get out ahead of the market with Shields.

 

I'd do the same in a heartbeat to get out from under Hughes or Nolasco.

 

Most teams aren't sure about being buyers, but seeing as the Royals and Mets were in the WS last year and wish to do so again, you'd have to assume they are. I'd give teams a discount on the return to get some of these guys off the books now simply to ensure they are off the books by the end of the year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd do the same in a heartbeat to get out from under Hughes or Nolasco.

 

Most teams aren't sure about being buyers, but seeing as the Royals and Mets were in the WS last year and wish to do so again, you'd have to assume they are. I'd give teams a discount on the return to get some of these guys off the books now simply to ensure they are off the books by the end of the year.

It's not just about determining whether you are a buyer or a seller. The Royals and Mets won't be sellers, but they may not need to buy. They will probably take the next two months to evaluate internal options. Remember when everyone here was convinced we could deal Plouffe to the Giants? Then Matt Duffy emerged. Teams aren't particularly willing to give up anything for an average-ish and scuffling player like Plouffe now, if they don't need to and it might cost them a trade chip or money to put towards more on an impact acquisition closer to the deadline.

 

And Shields is by all accounts healthy and a roughly league average starter even through his San Diego struggles. Nolasco and Hughes, you would pretty much have to eat near 100% with no prospect of significance coming back, I think.

[nicksaviking]

 

Teams aren't particularly willing to give up anything for an average-ish and scuffling player like Plouffe now, if they don't need to and it might cost them a trade chip or money to put towards more on an impact acquisition closer to the deadline.
 

 

If no teams want the players than there's nothing to do.

 

I'm just saying the Twins should be aggressively trying to move these guys ASAP, they should not be playing the traditional game of chicken hoping they'll get better value later, because A ) the player being shopped would have to improve his play, and B ) you'd have to hope the market hasn't been diluted with better talent. Those are two things beyond a GM's control.

 

Being a seller when there are very few sellers is the only time this front office will have to manipulate the system. Be aggressive, don't sit back and wait for other GM's to make the first move. The buyers are going to want to make the best deal possible. That need not be a requirement for our GM, make the other guy an offer that is intreguing enough for him to take our guy and not wait to see who becomes available later this summer.

 

Let the other guy "win" the trade.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Agreed on that. These circumstances call for aggressiveness.

[tobi0040]

You had me until you suggested the Twins trade Sano.

If he won't sign long term and we aren't good for 2-3 years I think you have to consider it.

[alarp33]

Mets trade for Kelly Johnson and give up what appears to be a decent relief prospect (Akeel Morris, I know nothing about him but a career MILB 12k/9).  I bet if the Twins would have called and offered to cover a couple million of Plouffe's salary they could have gotten the same return.  Nice "work" TR!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting.  Akeel Morris' age and stat line looks not unlike Lester Oliveros circa 2011, when we got him for Delmon Young.  Probably not much of an asset, but an interesting piece for a rebuilding club.  (Oliveros' tenure with the Twins may have been somewhat more interesting if he hadn't gone down for TJ surgery within a year of being acquired.)

 

Kelly Johnson probably had something like ~$1.3 mil left on his 2016 contract, as compared to $4.8 for Plouffe.

[alarp33]

 

Interesting.  Akeel Morris' age and stat line looks not unlike Lester Oliveros circa 2011, when we got him for Delmon Young.  Probably not much of an asset, but an interesting piece for a rebuilding club.  (Oliveros' tenure with the Twins may have been somewhat more interesting if he hadn't gone down for TJ surgery within a year of being acquired.)

 

Kelly Johnson probably had something like ~$1.3 mil left on his 2016 contract, as compared to $4.8 for Plouffe.

 

Agreed on Morris

 

I would say Plouffe is the slightly better player at this point, so I think if you make that $4.8 something like $2 or $2.5 you could've made a deal.  Who knows, my guess is its far more likely TR never picked up the phone. 

 

I also think a prospect like this is probably best case scenario for Plouffe

Edited June 8, 2016 by alarp33

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I would say Plouffe is the slightly better player at this point, so I think if you make that $4.8 something like $2 or $2.5 you could've made a deal.  Who knows, my guess is its far more likely TR never picked up the phone. 

That's my guess too.  Or even if he has picked up the phone, TR isn't willing to eat any money at this point.  Of if no one has called the Twins, everyone in baseball knows TR won't eat any money at this point.  (Have the Twins ever eaten any money in trade? I remember them dragging out the Morneau discussions with Pittsburgh over his final month's salary.)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So the Mets have been shopping for guys who can play corner infield. This is pretty disappointing.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That's my guess too.  Or even if he has picked up the phone, TR isn't willing to eat any money at this point.  Of if no one has called the Twins, everyone in baseball knows TR won't eat any money at this point.  (Have the Twins ever eaten any money in trade? I remember them dragging out the Morneau discussions with Pittsburgh over his final month's salary.)

It seems contradictory to me that the Twins are willing to receive cash in a trade, but not offer cash in a trade. What am I missing?

[wsnydes]

 

I'd think Polanco is ready to be given a fair shot.

 

The urgency really isn't about getting a good return for Plouffe, the urgency is to move guys who might not be movable once the A's, Angels, Yankees, Tigers, Brewers, Phillies, Rockies and other teams also decide they will not compete this year.

 

The Twins already know they're sellers.

I agree and it's about time the team figures out what he can do at the MLB level since they've exhausted his option years without already figuring that out.

[wsnydes]

Incidentally, the Mets acquired Kelly Johnson today.  That probably lessens their desire for a trade for a 3B a bit even if Johnson is a utility guy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It seems contradictory to me that the Twins are willing to receive cash in a trade, but not offer cash in a trade. What am I missing?

Not sure what you mean.  I'm more willing to receive cash than offer it too.

 

Twins generally haven't received much cash in trade either -- probably something like the waiver price.  Like what we probably paid to get Neal Cotts last August.  I guess the Mariners picked up the tab on Bret Boone back in the day, not sure if there have been others.

[Vanimal46]

 

Incidentally, the Mets acquired Kelly Johnson today.  That probably lessens their desire for a trade for a 3B a bit even if Johnson is a utility guy.

For a 23 year old, near MLB-ready, high K rate RP... 

Hello Terry? Are you out to lunch? I think we could use 1 or 2 of those guys.

[Winston Smith]

 I think we spend a lot of time talking about Terry doing things his history shows he rarely will do.

[alarp33]

 

 I think we spend a lot of time talking about Terry doing things his history shows he rarely will do.

 

Right, seems like pretty much everyone here (even those that were against it this winter) has agreed that Plouffe should be traded.  The thing we are ignoring, is Plouffe is still playing 3B every single day, and as far as we know, TR still sees him as the 3rd baseman for the next 5 years *shudders *

 

They have proven to value their mediocre veterans much higher than the rest of the market does.  The Mets not trading for Plouffe doesn't surprise me at all, he probably would've asked for Matz or someone.  

 

Wasn't it Willingham that baseball execs around the league said TR's asking prices were "laughable"?

Edited June 8, 2016 by alarp33

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Wasn't it Willingham that baseball execs around the league said TR's asking prices were "laughable"?

Sounds about right:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/os-working-on-morse-trade-unlikely-to-land-willingham.html

 

 

In the most recent Ortiz thread, I posted a quote from Epstein that said the Twins asked for "a pretty good prospect" in trade talks before simply releasing Ortiz too.

 

I get the feeling that the Twins ask for decent prospects and for the other team to pick up 100% of the salary.  And the other teams probably say "well, if nothing else works out, we'll get back to you" so nothing happens until the end of July or more likely August or not at all, and we generally get nothing back but <2 months salary relief at best anyway.

[amjgt]

Here's how it should go down...

 

1) Trade Plouffe

2) If #1 happens, then start Sano there every day

3) If #2 fails terribly, then stopgap the position with Nunez

4) If #3 fails terribly, then we've seen that the offseason supply of major league 3b exceed the demand. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

4) If #3 fails terribly, then we've seen that the offseason supply of major league 3b exceed the demand. 

Heck, you could probably even bid on getting Plouffe back, assuming his new team also isn't thrilled with his potential $10 mil arb award.

[nicksaviking]

 

Right, seems like pretty much everyone here (even those that were against it this winter) has agreed that Plouffe should be traded.  The thing we are ignoring, is Plouffe is still playing 3B every single day, and as far as we know, TR still sees him as the 3rd baseman for the next 5 years *shudders *

 

 

If Ryan viewed Plouffe as the every day 3B for the next five years, Ryan would have already extended him.

 

There is plenty to criticize, we don't need to create phantom problems to get upset about.

[alarp33]

 

If Ryan viewed Plouffe as the every day 3B for the next five years, Ryan would have already extended him.

 

There is plenty to criticize, we don't need to create phantom problems to get upset about.

 

5 years may have been an exaggeration, and I'm not claiming that is Ryan's thinking.  Just pointing out for all we know he has 0 plans to trade Plouffe, and he may be in their long term plans.  He's not a Free Agent after the year, and there aren't a ton of examples of starting players with control left who Ryan has traded

[Platoon]

It seems contradictory to me that the Twins are willing to receive cash in a trade, but not offer cash in a trade. What am I missing?

A degree in arithmetic?

[jorgenswest]

Yulieski Gourriel could make it more difficult to find a buyer for Plouffe or even Nunez as a 3B. There is no prospect cost attached to Gurriel.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/cubas-next-impact-free-agent-is-slugger-with-possible-yankees-fit/

[wsnydes]

 

Yulieski Gourriel could make it more difficult to find a buyer for Plouffe or even Nunez as a 3B. There is no prospect cost attached to Gurriel.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/cubas-next-impact-free-agent-is-slugger-with-possible-yankees-fit/

That's definitely the case.  A higher price tag with a larger contract period would likely be the case however.  I would think these players would be sought out by two different markets, but it will still likely be a factor.