Article: Position Battle: Center Field

[Thrylos]

I think that the Twins' pitchers are probably cringing at the prospects of a Quentin-Santana-Sano (L to R) OF

 

Still too early to tell, I just think that the Twins will bring more bodies in Spring Training at this point.  And I think that it is hard to see CF in a vacuum away from the rest of the OF.   Ryan is notorious of bring in players he liked when they played against the Twins and were successful.  Quentin is an example.  I look at the FA roster out there and David Murphy being there just scares me, for example.

 

My best case scenario for the Twins' CF:

 

a. Buxton proves that he can hit breaking stuff and get it in merit, if not

b. Benson has the Spring of his life and wins the job, if not

c. Rosario would be it.

 

I would not consider Santana out there, sue me.  He has neither the stick or the glove to deserve a starting position...

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Thrylos

[HitInAPinch]

Why Byron Buxton Will Win The Job:  Because the Twins want him to."  Yeah, duh

I wonder how much it will take in SP to make this happen?  IF, Buxton is going to be a lead-off hitter, he'll need to show better plate discipline and take some walks.  Can he show that in SP?  I'm just not feeling it.  But it would be great to see him make it happen.

 

"Why Danny Santana Will Win The Job:  Santana already has some experience playing center in the big leagues, having performed well there as a rookie in 2014. His dynamic speed would be welcome in the lineup."  Nice to see someone drinking that HitInAPinch Koolaid   

I like Santana and would like to see him get a shot.

 

Rosario in CF:  and what human statue will they put in LF?

Ryan Sweeney, Darin Mastroianni, Joe Benson:  The Three No's

Edited February 9, 2016 by HitInAPinch

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think we're missing the obvious answer here. Oswaldo Arcia played a bunch of CF back in the day and was outstanding in the Venezuela Winter Leagues in CF as recently as 2014.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=arcia-001osw

 

It's not our "infielders in the outfield" approach that we have all but slapped a trademark "Twins Way" on...but I like it.

 

Revolutionary.  It's clear we don't give a hoot about outfield defense so let's just go all-in on that puppy.

 

[Danchat]

I think Rosario will start in CF. I think Buxton will light up AAA for a month and reclaim his spot. The only question is who will be playing LF during that period. Will it be Arcia? Or perhaps Nunez or Quentin (shudder) ?

[Paul Pleiss]

If you don't want Joe Benson to grow out his mane and make good on his prospect status from years past, then you're lying to yourself. Or maybe you, like me, wish that Aaron Hicks was still in the organization to make good on the last year of development. John Ryan Murphey? woof. Or maybe you still think Ben Revere and his lack of power, but million dollar smile should be in CF? Or that the Twins should have stuck with and then resigned Denard Span despite his injury history? Yes. All of those things.

 

As long as it's not Danny Santana or Darin Mastrioni I'll be a happy man on opening day, win, lose or extra inning marathon.

[Reider]

I was hoping that the Twins would sign an outfielder like Span this off season and for good reason. As of right now the Twins only have one bona fide outfielder that can be penciled into the line up right now. And that guy is Rosario and the position is left field. I have him penciled in at left field to start the season. If he has a sophomore slump at the plate, then that is out of our control and that's something that would have to be addressed during the season.

 

Center field will have to be filled by using guys like Buxton and Santana. Hopefully one of these guys can get their bat going this year.

 

Right field will have to be filled using Sano and / or some of the other guys the Twins have. It's a new position for Sano, but I believe in the guy as an athlete and if he takes things seriously, he might do just fine. Of course there will be some mistakes made. That is a guarantee. But he moves pretty good for a big guy and he has a strong arm, so he'll just have to work on his foot work, positioning, the lines he takes to balls, getting used to judging where he needs to be etc.. That will all take a lot of time and practice. Thankfully, one Mr. Torii Hunter is going to play a role in teaching him those skills.

 

To be honest, I see growing pains in the near future in the outfield. If it isn't Sano taking time to get used to the outfield, it may be Buxton/Santana/Rosario's bats. Considering the Twins didn't go out and get any serous outfield help, we're just going to have to brace ourselves and hope for the best.

 

I am staying optimistic. It might take a while, but in the end, it might just work out great. If/when Buxton gets his bat going at the MLB level, Sano develops into a decent (or better than decent) outfielder, and Rosario even improves a little bit at the plate. Those three will be dynamite in the outfield and at the plate.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Reider

[tobi0040]

 

I think we're missing the obvious answer here. Oswaldo Arcia played a bunch of CF back in the day and was outstanding in the Venezuela Winter Leagues in CF as recently as 2014.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=arcia-001osw

 

I can't believe the Twins had him play CF for four games in 2012 (AA). 

[d-mac]

 

Buxton and Rosario - the runs they save in CF and LF will make up for the runs lost in RF and their bats will bloom as the summer temps rise. 

 

Rosario was a plus defender in LF. But Buxton? SSS, but fielding metrics say no. Nor is it a given that his bat will heat up. 

[d-mac]

 

Neither Hicks nor Buxton were "rushed"--they simply learned one of life's lessons--success doesn't come easy!  Virtually everybody stumbles in life (Einstein even flunked math once!) and adjustments must be made.  Sadly most of life's success come with overcoming hardship, sailing calm waters just isn't possible everyday.  Should Buxton start this April?  Taken as a standalone problem of Buxton as the long-term CF--then yes.  

 

Ah, but Buxton and CF aren't the only issues that need to be addressed.  There is LF and RF to decide.  Where to put Sano?  Is Arcia viable anyplace?  Or is he destined to be DFAed?  

Rosario--a flash-in-the-pan (like Santana in 2014 or Scott Diamond in 2012)?  Or is he  2016's version of D. Santana?  Or, is Rosario a fixture in the OF?  As a starter? or as a reserve?  More time and information is required  which includes the performance of other players in order to decide.

 Sano?  OF, DH?  Which?  To say 3B is as much of a crapshoot as RF--DH is the only place where the Twins can safely deploy him.

Thus, the CF decision is not as simple and straightforward as Buxton.  These threads are woven with each other.  The optimum solution for the team will likely not be optimum for one position or certainly player.

 

Hicks was rushed. He was not ready. I don't know how any sane person that watched his first two seasons in the majors could come to any other conclusion. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think we're missing the obvious answer here. Oswaldo Arcia played a bunch of CF back in the day and was outstanding in the Venezuela Winter Leagues in CF as recently as 2014.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=arcia-001osw

I know this was tongue-in-cheek, but as an Arcia supporter it only provides me with more ammo

[d-mac]

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm ok with Rosario/Sweeney in LF/CF to start the year while Buxton's bat marinates in AAA. Yes, he was out of baseball last year, but Sweeney is a career .276/.333/.380 (wRC+ 94) career hitter. Plus he's been an above average defender in CF and plus defender in the corner over his career. He'll be a fine place holder for a few months, then when Buxton is ready, a great 4th outfielder and defensive replacement for Sano. 

[KGB]

 

Hicks was rushed. He was not ready. I don't know how any sane person that watched his first two seasons in the majors could come to any other conclusion. 

Other than a six week period last year from July to mid August, it still looks like he being rushed.

 

In Hicks case, it might not be being rushed, it he just might be a .220 hitter.

[nicksaviking]

 

I can't believe the Twins had him play CF for four games in 2012 (AA). 

 

They were rewarded for their confidence in him with a 1.000% Fielding Percentage. That means he was perfect, unlike Byron Buxton who had a .944 fielding percentage as a CF in 2012. I mean this isn't even a contest anymore.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm ok with Rosario/Sweeney in LF/CF to start the year while Buxton's bat marinates in AAA. Yes, he was out of baseball last year, but Sweeney is a career .276/.333/.380 (wRC+ 94) career hitter.

Of course, he was a 79 the last time he played, and then missed a full season.  Like Quentin, I don't think anyone should be comfortable giving that guy a 25-man roster spot to begin the season, there's almost no way for spring training to indicate it's worth clearing room on the 25-man and 40-man that quickly.

[nicksaviking]

I don't see much value in Sweeney as the 4th or 5th OF. If the team is going the AAAA route, at least Mastroianni or Benson might be able to swipe a bag as a pinch runner and both are likely more attractive options to go from 1st to 3rd or home. Sweeney has no speed or power, it's not like you'd ever want to call him off the bench.

[d-mac]

 

Of course, he was a 79 the last time he played, and then missed a full season.  Like Quentin, I don't think anyone should be comfortable giving that guy a 25-man roster spot to begin the season, there's almost no way for spring training to indicate it's worth clearing room on the 25-man and 40-man that quickly.

 

And Buxton was a wRC+54 last year. Your point? Sweeney has a track record of being a solid player. If this team is going to be a contender in 2016 we can't tolerate sub .600 OPS players in the line-up. The risk of Buxton OPS'ing .550 in April and May is a lot higher than it would be for Sweeney. 

[d-mac]

 

I don't see much value in Sweeney as the 4th or 5th OF. If the team is going the AAAA route, at least Mastroianni or Benson might be able to swipe a bag as a pinch runner and both are likely more attractive options to go from 1st to 3rd or home.

 

In what world is Mastroianni more valuable than Sweeney? He's a .212/.274/.289 career hitter. Sweeney's worst year (2014) he hit .251/.304/.338, the same year Mastroianni hit .116/.136/.186. Your comparing a replacement level player vs. someone with 8 career WAR. Sweeney's only 6 months older. Obviously, the caveat is that is he healthy? But if he is, what's not to like? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And Buxton was a wRC+54 last year. Your point? Sweeney has a track record of being a solid player. If this team is going to be a contender in 2016 we can't tolerate sub .600 OPS players in the line-up. The risk of Buxton OPS'ing .550 in April and May is a lot higher than it would be for Sweeney. 

A lot higher, really?  Sweeney is on a minor league deal, following a season of 79 wRC+ and then a season of not playing at all.  Ask Jason Bartlett how that worked out.  I don't think it's at all clear that Sweeney could out-hit Buxton on April 1st, in which case the deciding factor should probably be upside and future.

 

Now, if one is determined to get Buxton more AAA reps, I understand, but it's still not clear Sweeney as a placeholder would be worth the 25 and 40 man roster machinations required to add him for opening day over, say, shifting Rosario to CF or even using Danny Santana there a bit.  Sweeney is here on a minor league deal, presumably with the standard veteran June 1st opt out, and there is a reason for that -- he's probably not ready for opening day or to be evaluated properly based on spring training results alone.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In what world is Mastroianni more valuable than Sweeney? He's a .212/.274/.289 career hitter. Sweeney's worst year (2014) he hit .251/.304/.338, the same year Mastroianni hit .116/.136/.186. Your comparing a replacement level player vs. someone with 8 career WAR. Sweeney's only 6 months older. Obviously, the caveat is that is he healthy? But if he is, what's not to like? 

As hitters, I'd agree, but as base stealers, Mastro would have the clear edge.  And the Twins roster as currently constructed could have more use for a pinch running specialist than the modest bat of a reserve outfielder who shouldn't play much anyway.

 

Once Buxton is in CF (a predicate of this point, discussing Sweeney as a 4th/5th OF), if Sano is still in RF, with Rosario and Kepler, and perhaps even Arcia, Santana, and Walker still lurking around, the marginal benefit of Sweeney's bat on his rare opportunities to play would be minimal.  It's not hard to envision a good pinch runner being more useful.

 

Not that I endorse either Sweeney or Mastro at this point.  I'd prefer neither on the opening day roster, and would probably only entertain promoting them if they had a strong couple months in AAA and we still have an opening.

Edited February 9, 2016 by spycake

[spinowner]

 

As hitters, I'd agree, but as base stealers, Mastro would have the clear edge.  And the Twins roster as currently constructed could have more use for a pinch running specialist than the modest bat of a reserve outfielder who shouldn't play much anyway.

Mastroianni would lead the majors in SB's if stealing first base was allowed.

[d-mac]

 

A lot higher, really?  Sweeney is on a minor league deal, following a season of 79 wRC+ and then a season of not playing at all.  Ask Jason Bartlett how that worked out.  I don't think it's at all clear that Sweeney could out-hit Buxton on April 1st, in which case the deciding factor should probably be upside and future.

 

Now, if one is determined to get Buxton more AAA reps, I understand, but it's still not clear Sweeney as a placeholder would be worth the 25 and 40 man roster machinations required to add him for opening day over, say, shifting Rosario to CF or even using Danny Santana there a bit.  Sweeney is here on a minor league deal, presumably with the standard veteran June 1st opt out, and there is a reason for that -- he's probably not ready for opening day or to be evaluated properly based on spring training results alone.

 

A. Yes, I think it is imperative for Buxton to get AAA reps. 

B. I also think Sweeney would be better than Santana, a converted infielder. I'd rather have Buxton skip AAA than have Santana starting on this team for any length of time.

[d-mac]

 

As hitters, I'd agree, but as base stealers, Mastro would have the clear edge.  And the Twins roster as currently constructed could have more use for a pinch running specialist than the modest bat of a reserve outfielder who shouldn't play much anyway.

 

Once Buxton is in CF (a predicate of this point, discussing Sweeney as a 4th/5th OF), if Sano is still in RF, with Rosario and Kepler, and perhaps even Arcia, Santana, and Walker still lurking around, the marginal benefit of Sweeney's bat on his rare opportunities to play would be minimal.  It's not hard to envision a good pinch runner being more useful.

 

Not that I endorse either Sweeney or Mastro at this point.  I'd prefer neither on the opening day roster, and would probably only entertain promoting them if they had a strong couple months in AAA and we still have an opening.

 

I don't think base stealing from occasional pinch running appearance to be all that valuable. Even if we are only talking about 200 PA's, I'd rather have someone with the track record of a .700 OPS hitter vs a .500 OPS hitter. Much more valuable 5-10 steals of second base. Not to mention if Sano is in right, wouldn't we want a defensive replacement for him late in the game?

[alarp33]

 

A. Yes, I think it is imperative for Buxton to get AAA reps. 

B. I also think Sweeney would be better than Santana, a converted infielder. I'd rather have Buxton skip AAA than have Santana starting on this team for any length of time.

 

I have to be honest.  I did not expect to come across anyone in 2016 banging the drum for Ryan Sweeney to be the CFer over the #1 prospect in baseball.  Any relation to the Sweeney's?

[Ncgo4]

The key to all of this is Mauer. If Joe is a bust in spring training and through the first few weeks of the season and if Kepler, Buxton, Park, Sano and Rosario look they must be in the lineup it puts Molly in a position where he has to make real decisions. If Kepler, for example just DEMANDS a spot in the Line up then there just might be no spot for a very marginal fielding, marginal average and no power 1st baseman.

 

I've said it before, but I really believe Mauer's salary is like the water or heating bill. It's a utility, ust something you have to pay. The precious commodity isn't his salary, it's his spot in the lineup. Any 3 of Park, Sano, Buxton, Rosario and Kepler, if really performing could easily combine to make him an in-lineup liability. All 5 of them really performing and Plouffe could join Mauer on that list.

 

Realistically, however, good performances by 3 of the 5 would be terrific. 4 or 5 would be Christmas.

[nicksaviking]

In what world is Mastroianni more valuable than Sweeney? He's a .212/.274/.289 career hitter. Sweeney's worst year (2014) he hit .251/.304/.338, the same year Mastroianni hit .116/.136/.186. Your comparing a replacement level player vs. someone with 8 career WAR. Sweeney's only 6 months older. Obviously, the caveat is that is he healthy? But if he is, what's not to like?

 

I don't want either of them hitting and the Twins sure as hell better not be planning on any of them doing it regularly. I don't see value for the position other than defensive replacements, which is probably a push, and base running which Sweeney comes in third place.

[tobi0040]

 

The key to all of this is Mauer. If Joe is a bust in spring training and through the first few weeks of the season and if Kepler, Buxton, Park, Sano and Rosario look they must be in the lineup it puts Molly in a position where he has to make real decisions. If Kepler, for example just DEMANDS a spot in the Line up then there just might be no spot for a very marginal fielding, marginal average and no power 1st baseman.

I've said it before, but I really believe Mauer's salary is like the water or heating bill. It's a utility, ust something you have to pay. The precious commodity isn't his salary, it's his spot in the lineup. Any 3 of Park, Sano, Buxton, Rosario and Kepler, if really performing could easily combine to make him an in-lineup liability. All 5 of them really performing and Plouffe could join Mauer on that list.

Realistically, however, good performances by 3 of the 5 would be terrific. 4 or 5 would be Christmas.

 

There is a lot of truth here.  But Joe has been a .720 or .730 OPS guy the last two years.  So a guy like Kepler would have to really, really push that in order to see significant reps.  Like the way Morneau was hitting in AAA before being promoted.   I think .720 or .730 is not bad enough to bump the $23M fan favorite.   It should be, just don't think it will be.