This really has less to do with marriage itself and more with not liking the lifestyle.  I think it's naive to think it would go away with this.

 

Don't confuse the vocal 5% on both sides with everyone else. Most people don't care. They just don't want to be forced to go one way or the other.

 

Don't confuse the vocal 5% on both sides with everyone else. Most people don't care. They just don't want to be forced to go one way or the other.

 

No one will force anything, that's a myth being pushed.  And the anti-gay marriage voting seems to indicate the vocal 5% have plenty of support.

 

I completely agree. I think the churches' fear this (the mandating part)... and sadly rightfully so. It is not set in law, and there are plenty that would take advantage of it. There's an easy solution here. Allow gay marriage while allowing churches to not perform those marriages.  95% of this debate would go away.

 

why would any church fear this? NO church has been told to give communion to someone else, or to ordain women, or anything by the government. That's the beauty of freedom of religion......

Wasn't the Catholic church just told they had to support contraception in their health plans? 

 

I agree that by and large for the most part no one would be forced to perform gay marriages, but like it or not, that is a REAL fear that many people in the church voiced.  If it is as you say and there's nothing to worry about, then put it down in law.  That will quell the fears of a lot of people.  Yeah, you'll still have that vocal minority screaming from the rooftops, but they loose a lot of power when everyone else just doesn't care anymore. 

That has nothing to do with the practice of their religion, really........but yes, they were. It's a hard line to draw, that one. What do you want people to put down in law, that freedom of religion as laid out in the US constitution is the law?

 

Easiest thing to do would be to totally divorce (heh....) religious ceremony and legal marriage. But many states still require religious or judges to preside over a marriage, which is stupid.

 

It stems from the fact we are the only civilized nation with national HC.......except Israel, which requires every citizen to buy a 2 year policy by law.

It's a mostly irrational fear though not entirely irrational.

 

The closest situation to this happening is when the IRS threatened to revoke the Mormon Church's tax exempt status when they refused to allow black people into the priesthood, though I'm not sure if that is urban legend or reality. The details are murky and it may not have happened at all.

 

But there was legal precedent for that happening. Race is a federally protected class in America. Sexual preference is not. Until sexual preference becomes federally protected - and I think we're quite a ways from that happening, though I'd be in favor of it - I don't see this fear becoming a reality.

 

2. Far more conservatives support Voldemort than liberals.

 

No that just isn't true, zero conservatives support Trump.  Every racist who has ever voted Democrat supports Trump.  I have to imagine that's a pretty large #.

 

Ron Paul would say get out of the Middle East.  Ted Cruz wants to carpet bomb them.  How can you be a supporter of RP and TC? I don't see it.  Those are pretty much diametrically opposed.

 

Because I'm not a single issue voter, and because if the threat is real even Ron Paul would do something about it.

 

Because I'm not a single issue voter, and because if the threat is real even Ron Paul would do something about it.

 

If your answer to "do something" is "carpet bombing", that's not a libertarian position.  That's "shock and awe" with a new name.

Edited December 18, 201510 yr by TheLeviathan

No that just isn't true, zero conservatives support Trump. Every racist who has ever voted Democrat supports Trump. I have to imagine that's a pretty large #.

Something like 65% of his supporters self-indentify as conservative. Your opinion does not jive with reality.

 

No that just isn't true, zero conservatives support Trump.  Every racist who has ever voted Democrat supports Trump.  I have to imagine that's a pretty large #.

That just is not true. Making stuff up in your mind might seem true to you, but it just isn't.

 

No that just isn't true, zero conservatives support Trump.  Every racist who has ever voted Democrat supports Trump.  I have to imagine that's a pretty large #.

Well this is one way to have people not take any more of your takes seriously.

I love the BS myth that Obama is not doing anything about ISIL and terrorism. By this logic, every single world leader is not right now......

 

I love the BS myth that Obama is not doing anything about ISIL and terrorism. By this logic, every single world leader is not right now......

 

It's politics at their worst.  Other than Rand Paul every single other plan up there is the same as what Obama is already doing.  

 

Well, and Trump too, but I try not to count him.

 

That just is not true. Making stuff up in your mind might seem true to you, but it just isn't.

I just have to say I think this in just about all the baseball threads I read. I've just learned not to say so any more.

 

No that just isn't true, zero conservatives support Trump.  Every racist who has ever voted Democrat supports Trump.  I have to imagine that's a pretty large #.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there will be more conservatives than liberals voting Trump regardless whether he ends up running as a Republican or an Independent.

 

Just a hunch.

yeah, like it or not, there's a reason Trump is running under the Republican party. He has the 'outsider' label, and he's generally a neo-con, just under a different name. That's how the parties succeed with a disenfranchised voter base.  Just keep re-branding the same as something else and hope they never get it. Problem is that it works.

 

I thought Trump would be interesting b/c of the trainwreck that I suspected would eventually happen. Now I'm afraid we are going to see 4 years of trainwreck. I don't see Hillary beating him, and something happens where a guy like Rand Paul gets some serious love, I don't see anyone beating trump. Cruz, Rubio, and Carson are more of the same. No one wants another Bush.

 

It is time for some fundamental change with politics in America, but that's only happening when the Reps and Dems get shoved aside.

 

yeah, like it or not, there's a reason Trump is running under the Republican party. He has the 'outsider' label, and he's generally a neo-con, just under a different name. That's how the parties succeed with a disenfranchised voter base.  Just keep re-branding the same as something else and hope they never get it. Problem is that it works.

 

I thought Trump would be interesting b/c of the trainwreck that I suspected would eventually happen. Now I'm afraid we are going to see 4 years of trainwreck. I don't see Hillary beating him, and something happens where a guy like Rand Paul gets some serious love, I don't see anyone beating trump. Cruz, Rubio, and Carson are more of the same. No one wants another Bush.

 

It is time for some fundamental change with politics in America, but that's only happening when the Reps and Dems get shoved aside.

 

I'm feeling quite the opposite actually. The guy's a side show, and he's not actually going to get many conservative votes. If Trump somehow gets the nomination, the actual sane conservatives just aren't going to turn out to vote. mickmcgrimes got a hard time for the last post, but he's right in that there is a good chunk of conservatives that will disown the guy if they already haven't. Not all, but more than enough.

 

I think Clinton is going to run away with it if Trump ends up on the ballot under any symbol. I think a fiscal conservative could one day take back the White House, but I think the days of social conservatives getting the big job are done. Fair or not, social conservatism is just too tied to oppression, bigotry and hateful rhetoric and with the social media the way it is today far more people like to shame that stuff than embrace it. And again, I'm not saying whether it's fair or not to tie social conservatism to those things, but it just seems they are now.

 

Something like 65% of his supporters self-indentify as conservative. Your opinion does not jive with reality.

 

Right, that's like saying a certain percent of people who support higher taxes and are pro choice think they are conservative.  You know how you can tell if a Trump supporter isn't conservative?  Ask them if they support Trump.

 

Listen there is pretty solid evidence Trump is a friend of the Clinton's and they play a role in his campaign.  Maybe he's just this much of a shmuck and the Clinton's are taking advantage of that, but this is a guy who up until 2008 supported liberal policy and voted for Barrack Obama.  One of three things have to be true.  One sometimes Democrats are really racist.  2 Trump while playing the role of fake Republican thinks being really racist will accomplish what he set out to accomplish.  3 Trump recently changed his mind on just about anything notably becoming really racist despite the fact 9-11 was way before 2008.

Edited December 19, 201510 yr by mikecgrimes

 

Right, that's like saying a certain percent of people who support higher taxes and are pro choice think they are conservative.  You know how you can tell if a Trump supporter isn't conservative?  Ask them if they support Trump.

 

Most of the stage, including your boy Gomer, are singing the same tune.  Gomer wants to increase the military spending, initiate Shock and Awe 2, cut down illegal immigration (another huge spending venture), and has basically built his campaign on "I'll keep you safe"

 

Trumps rhetoric would look insane next to the Democrat field.  It blends in, with some differences, to the Republican field.  

 

You're blaming Trump when the real culprit is what conservatism has become - bitter and stupid.  And it's further evidenced by the kinds of morons the party is electing into all levels of government.

Right, that's like saying a certain percent of people who support higher taxes and are pro choice think they are conservative. You know how you can tell if a Trump supporter isn't conservative? Ask them if they support Trump.

 

Listen there is pretty solid evidence Trump is a friend of the Clinton's and they play a role in his campaign. Maybe he's just this much of a shmuck and the Clinton's are taking advantage of that, but this is a guy who up until 2008 supported liberal policy and voted for Barrack Obama. One of three things have to be true. One sometimes Democrats are really racist. 2 Trump while playing the role of fake Republican thinks being really racist will accomplish what he set out to accomplish. 3 Trump recently changed his mind on just about anything notably becoming really racist despite the fact 9-11 was way before 2008.

Instead of accusing Voldemort of being a political mole in an attempt to distance him from modern conservatism, you should take a moment to examine what modern conservatism has become and why you try so hard to defend it.

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, Voldermort's policies are popular with conservatives. This is not my opinion, nor is it up for debate. It is reality. Instead of trying to deflect this reality in a vain attempt to justify your support, maybe it's time to take a hard look at what the GOP has become and reconsider why you support these people and their horrific policy. It's what I was forced to do ten years ago.

 

Instead of accusing Voldemort of being a political mole in an attempt to distance him from modern conservatism, you should take a moment to examine what modern conservatism has become and why you try so hard to defend it.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Voldermort's policies are popular with conservatives. This is not my opinion, nor is it up for debate. It is reality. Instead of trying to deflect this reality in a vain attempt to justify your support, maybe it's time to take a hard look at what the GOP has become and reconsider why you support these people and their horrific policy. It's what I was forced to do ten years ago.

It's exactly this why I will vote for the lesser of two evils and vote for a Democrat because of what the Republicans have become. While the Dems have their own issues, it is literally too frightening for me to think of what a Republican controlled Congress, Senate and White House would do to many of us, but particularly anyone who isn't a white male.

 

Let's clarify the definitions. 

 

Carpet bombing ISIS means carpet bombing Syria.  There's little difference.  Plenty of Syrians get killed via carpet bombing ISIS' b/c carpet bombing ISIS could give a rats you know what about WHO actually pays the price for said action.  The Ven diagrams of the two don't overlap much, but the results obliterate both sides and give power to ISIS.

 

And Neocons...  well, let's just say that they don't believe in free market capitalism.  Free market capitalism would have put the people who caused 2008 in jail, yet no one to this day has been prosecuted. And don't blame Obama here, b/c we know that those people bribed plenty of people in the Bush admit too. Free market Capitalism is a joke b/c neither party actually abides by it.

By the way, I totally agree that those crooks should be in jail, and just about all Americans, except the bankers, politicians etc. probably agree.

 

It's exactly this why I will vote for the lesser of two evils and vote for a Democrat because of what the Republicans have become. While the Dems have their own issues, it is literally too frightening for me to think of what a Republican controlled Congress, Senate and White House would do to many of us, but particularly anyone who isn't a white male.

This comment about white males is absouloutly offensive. You have to remember that there are woman, black, hispanic, etc. Republicans in the government, and to say something like that is absouloutly ridiculous, because when you do so you are inferring that people who vote Republican do so because they are sexist, racist and bigoted.

This comment about white males is absouloutly offensive. You have to remember that there are woman, black, hispanic, etc. Republicans in the government, and to say something like that is absouloutly ridiculous, because when you do so you are inferring that people who vote Republican do so because they are sexist, racist and bigoted.

No, you missed her point......big time.

 

No, you missed her point......big time.

It may not be her point, but she is inferring that.

 

 And it's further evidenced by the kinds of morons the party is electing into all levels of government.

 

Oh

 

No, you missed her point......big time.

 

The point was made pretty clearly.  Of course another point was made, but it kind of got overshadowed when the point was made.  By the way why do you think the fake Republican who voted for Obama is going out of his way to appear racist?  it's so easy to spew this stuff when you think nobody will call you out on it.

Have you stopped to consider why no one is calling him on it?  Perhaps you should?

Great comedy from the Democrats again tonight.  Hey I wonder why they hide all these debates on Saturday nights.