what do you presume the Twins do, cut him and pay him 23 million not to play?

what do you presume the Twins do, cut him and pay him 23 million not to play?

If only.  I presume they could restructure his contract? Obliviously his play has declined and he's not even close to that amount of money.  Do we presume we just keep paying him 23 million for the next five years at his play level? This is a tough situation, but sometimes finding a way around it or cutting loses make for a better future.

At some point before the contract runs out the Twins will have at least two better options at 1B/DH than Mauer. Even this year, Park, Arcia and Vargas have an OPS projection from steamer greater than Mauer's. All three have too many questions but if two are clearly better a some point this season or entering next, it will be time to move Mauer to the bench and eventually release him.

Looks like the Twins are out the dough regardless what they do. Nobody else is going to pick up that tab.

If only.  I presume they could restructure his contract? Obliviously his play has declined and he's not even close to that amount of money.  Do we presume we just keep paying him 23 million for the next five years at his play level? This is a tough situation, but sometimes finding a way around it or cutting loses make for a better future.

It's not football. There is no restructuring of contracts. Yes, they will pay him $23 million for the next 3 seasons. (unless he retires and they do some buyout or something)

Also, you essentially said that he has coasted since signing the contract... but remind me what he was hitting when he went down with the concussion?

Also, you say he's essentially coased

It's not football. There is no restructuring of contracts. Yes, they will pay him $23 million for the next 3 seasons. (unless he retires and they do some buyout or something)

 

Also, you essentially said that he has coasted since signing the contract... but remind me what he was hitting when he went down with the concussion?

 

Also, you say he's essentially coased

So are we just supposed to pay him for under performing because he had a concussion? Could you tell me how he was doing before this situation and what happened after? Do we continue to let him suck up all that money for the next 3 years or do we get out now, save the extra 69 million that will be wasted and fill the hole with someone else. I understand your concern, but just because someone had a concussion a long time ago and the effects still linger do we waste that salary and position because he's a hometown guy? If it's the concussion or not, he's not the player we are paying for.

Mauer was underpaid the first half of his career and overpaid the second. In the end he will have been worth more to the Twins than they spent.

The money is committed and they have to pay him. They don't need to roster him though. He should be expected to earn that spot based on his performance. If the Twins can improve the team by replacing him, they must do so.

So are we just supposed to pay him for under performing because he had a concussion? Could you tell me how he was doing before this situation and what happened after? Do we continue to let him suck up all that money for the next 3 years or do we get out now, save the extra 69 million that will be wasted and fill the hole with someone else. I understand your concern, but just because someone had a concussion a long time ago and the effects still linger do we waste that salary and position because he's a hometown guy? If it's the concussion or not, he's not the player we are paying for.

1.) Yes, the Twins will continue to pay him.

2.) He hit .324/.404/.476 (.880) when his 2013 season ended with the concussion.

3.) They'll pay him.

4.) No, you spend the money because it is his salary. 

5.) The Twins, and every team, know what they're getting into with all these deals. Injury is part of that risk. So is decline. Should Mauer be able to ask for the $30 million he earned in those seasons with he was making league minimum, or less than $10 million?

1.) Yes, the Twins will continue to pay him.

2.) He hit .324/.404/.476 (.880) when his 2013 season ended with the concussion.

3.) They'll pay him.

4.) No, you spend the money because it is his salary. 

5.) The Twins, and every team, know what they're getting into with all these deals. Injury is part of that risk. So is decline. Should Mauer be able to ask for the $30 million he earned in those seasons with he was making league minimum, or less than $10 million?

I understand the concept of this situation and I think you are forgetting 2010-2012 he wasn't close to that pay either. I get people have a love for Mauer, but even in 2013 again before the concussion, his average was good (which I didn't downplay in the post) but the rest of his numbers dropped. To say that other than his 2009 year he didn't decline is ludicrous. Look, I like the guy a lot, and yeah, I'm sure he'll get paid, but as of right now he is a waste of a roster spot and I'd rather give someone else a chance. You can disagree with that all you want, but I've also watched him his whole time playing in the league and since 2009 he's been a underachieving C/1B at best even before his concussion.

There is honestly no one in the world I want to succeed more than Joe Mauer because of all the ridiculous hate towards him. Yes, he makes a lot of money. Yes, his production is down. There are numerous reasons, age, concussion, just simple regression but when I grow old he, along with Kirby Puckett will be two of the players I will be telling my kids and grandkids I had the pleasure of watching play. Not only is he one of the greatest Twins of all time, along with one of the greatest catchers of all baseball, but he is one of the classiest individuals in the game. I have never heard him say a negative thing towards anyone and I've always gotten the impression he has gone out and played as hard as he could. These threads pop up all the time, and even in other threads it always ends up on Mauer. They are completely unoriginal and everything that could possibly be said has been said and I wish people would just leave it alone.

I never said I hated him and I trimmed down the original post leaving out me being a huge fan from day one. But that was a long time ago and he isn't that player. Just because I don't want someone on a team doesn't mean I hate the person himself. It's a post to spark debate, and I've talked to many fans who agree and some who don't. If you take offense to the post I apologize, but yes people talk about it because it's an on going problem. You can't just expect people to enjoy watching a player because he's a class act. I wish people would understand that opinion on him, because many fans and many people who watch the league agree.

People - baseball contracts are guaranteed. This is a pointless topic unless you have a time machine - and then only pertinent if you've exhausted all the other time-machine related quests like killing Hitler and buying up Apple stock.

Late to the party, but this is terrible. See comments regarding restructuring contracts...baseball is a fully guaranteed sport, that can't be done.

Also, you just wrote an entire post about Mayer and production but didn't once mention he's suffered a concussion and now deals with the effects of a traumatic brain injury. Quoting you in regards to decking production since signing the contract is laughable.

You can probably begin to make the argument that Joe is not worthy of regular time, but this attempt at whatever it was misses everything so far.

So 2010-2013 before his concussion and after his big deal you would say his production didn't drop? Honestly, am I the only one seeing he went to from 28 home runs to and average around 10, his batting AVG went down 50 points, his triples and doubles either dropped or stayed the same. This is all BEFORE the concussion. I find it laughable you haven't looked at those stats and realized this. I'll apologize for bring up a sore subject for most, but the numbers after his deal and BEFORE his concussion are a major drop. Stop using the concussion as an excuse. Of course his play dropped AFTER the concussion as well, but if you want to look past his numbers from 2010-2013 that's on you.

So 2010-2013 before his concussion and after his big deal you would say his production didn't drop? Honestly, am I the only one seeing he went to from 28 home runs to and average around 10, his batting AVG went down 50 points, his triples and doubles either dropped or stayed the same. This is all BEFORE the concussion. I find it laughable you haven't looked at those stats and realized this. I'll apologize for bring up a sore subject for most, but the numbers after his deal and BEFORE his concussion are a major drop. Stop using the concussion as an excuse. Of course his play dropped AFTER the concussion as well, but if you want to look past his numbers from 2010-2013 that's on you.

I agree the production was sliding before the concussion, his K's rate had been increasing for years and his high BABIP hid the reduced production.  Once the BABIP went back to his career normal in 2014, you saw the big drop in BA.

But cutting Mauer makes no sense.  If he doesn't produce this year, you can just reduce his playing time.  He not worth what they are paying him, but he not a terrible player.  He's still a Twins HOF player and he should get respect for his prior contributions.

No one has mentioned that Mauer was the fortunate recipient of excellent timing. The Pohlads had used the "increased revenue keeps players" argument in getting public funding for TF. And along comes Joe! Hometown boy, big year of stats, and the very first opportunity for the team to pay up. I think the term is "The Perfect Storm"? Not many players get the chance to fill in the monetary blank on a contract themselves, but he did. If it would make anyone feel better, they could write off a percentage of the contract to goodwill, for that's what some of it was. He isn't going to be cut, he isn't going to be traded, he isn't going to renegotiate, and he isn't going to the bench! A discussion about his position in the batting order is valid. Anything else is futile.

This is my NUMBER 1 gripe with MLB.  Fully guaranteed contracts are a disaster for professional sports franchises.  This kind of contract gives WAY to much power to the individual player and allows slackers (see Mauer) to haunt a team for years, handcuffs a team into keeping cheaters / dopers (Arod & Santana), and gives them virtually no recourse against clubhouse cancers (Nolasco, Garza, etc.) who cause major problems once they get paid.  

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He isn't going to be cut, he isn't going to be traded, he isn't going to renegotiate, and he isn't going to the bench! A discussion about his position in the batting order is valid. Anything else is futile.

Just like all players, I hope his playing time isn't guaranteed.  He may have a longer leash than most, but if the Twins are a serious playoff team, they need to play the best players. 

According to Fangraphs, Joe Mauer has so far through his career been worth $274.5 million. To pay less than 200 million overall for that production (including the next 3 years) has been a GREAT deal for the Twins.

Yes, he has had some concussions. No, he is not able to play the sport at the same level as in 2009 because he didn't have a traumatic brain injury at that time.

Traumatic brain injuries effect everyone differently.

No, Joe Mauer's contract does not stop the Twins from spending whatever they want on any other players.

No, money in sports, and with celebrities, is not like the rest of us. To compare your 50k per year job to a sports athlete, especially one that was playing at a hall of fame level until he got injured, is just not fair.

Yes, he can still get on base. That is not something easily taught, and is frankly amazing what with having multiple concussions. Maybe the sunglasses will help him see better during the day, and he can be a better player going forward.

And finally, if he wasn't one of the best current players on the team, he wouldn't be playing as much. To say that Vargas demands time over him is laughable.

I never said I hated him.....

I would characterize the 2009 season as a spike in home runs, rather than calling everything after it a decline. True, Mauer is not the guy he was. I was on that boat in 2006. Mauer has had his health issues but my bigger complain is not Mauer but would be how the team is using him (batting him 3rd despite low OPS, etc.).

Two Questions! Will the Twins ever ever give a contract of this size to a player again, be he homegrown or from outside (see the future Sano, Berrios, etc)? 

Did the Twins make a mistake not only drafting the hometown kid #1 but giving him a franchise salary because he is a hometown kid?

Back when Joe was signed, the word seemed to fly that Pohlad would be run out of town if Joe signed with the Red Sox or anyone else for anything. He was and is the face of the franchise...at the time of the signing. My, how a few years, a position shift and some health issues change the entire picture.

Joe Mauer was/is good for the franchise. He is the hometown poster boy. He still plays ball. He could easily sit out the rest of his career and heal, it is not beyond comprehension that the body and mind should be taken care of before the team.

You can't trade him, although if he has a tremendous season and someone (anyone) is looking for a first baseman, you should consider freeing up the salary. But chances of that happening (see Ryan Howard) are not all that great. Sorry. He, sadly, brings nothing exceptional to another team to tie up that amount of salary.

I always felt that the Pohlad's needed to take Joe's salary out of the payroll equation in the beginning and thru the length of the contract and put it in the advertising/goodwill department of the team's budget. He is a fixture. He was a necessary need for the team at the time and serves best not eating up payroll that you should be expending on other players. His shoudl be that contract above and beyond.

Regarding playing time, he needs to earn his way. He may be the best at the moment, if you can find someplace else to play someone. And because he IS on the team and eating up salary, he will push aside the Kennys Vargas and cause you to maybe slow the progression of, say, Max Kepler as his replacement.

The bigger question will be where does Joe go after 2019 and how much will it cost to keep him around and can you find a place for him in the lineup or on the bench. If the money is right, you can always give a bench spot to a Thome-like player...a guy who comes off the bench in a situational and does something (hopefully). It's nice if he can play another position. Sure, it would be wonderful if you could plug Joe into the outfield or third base if the call came. Man, even Harmon Killebrew played first, third and the outfield after starting as a middle infielder.

2016 will be a telling year for Mauer and the Twins. Park has to show that he is a threat to stay in the lineup. The Twins need to find a space for Sano, especially if other outfield prospects develop. But we don't know that for this season and won't have a good handle until we head into the next season, and Joe can still be a valuable cog at first base even in 2017 as, who knows who will still be in the mix.

Unfortunately this is the structure of MLB contracts.  Look at what Madison Bumgarner is making and imagine what he will be paid when his current deal expires.  Will he be worth what he will be making in the last 3 years of that deal?  Maybe, but probably not.  He will be paid based on what he's done in the years leading up to the next contract.  The Twins could not let Mauer leave and thus gave him a deal that ensured he would likely retire a Twin.

So are we just supposed to pay him for under performing because he had a concussion? Could you tell me how he was doing before this situation and what happened after? Do we continue to let him suck up all that money for the next 3 years or do we get out now, save the extra 69 million that will be wasted and fill the hole with someone else. I understand your concern, but just because someone had a concussion a long time ago and the effects still linger do we waste that salary and position because he's a hometown guy? If it's the concussion or not, he's not the player we are paying for.

That and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee.  Not the good kind but the kind you get for a quarter.  Suck it up buttercup.  He's not going anywhere.  He's not retiring.  He's not re-structuring his deal.  And whether you like it or not, come April 4, he'll most likely be penciled into the 3 hole in the batting order.  And no, Sano is NOT a better fit for the 3 spot.  Sano spending the next decade and a half anywhere but the # 4 spot should be considered a fire-able offense for anyone making such decisions.  Slot Park in at # 5 if you like.  Plouffe fits nicely as a 6 hitter.  But whether you like it or not we don't have anyone else who is a better fit in the 3 hole.  Deal with it.

I'm curious.

The OP wrote another opinion piece on Vikings Journal "hating to break things to us" about NORV! under the blog title "Minnesota Groan".

Any opinions on the Wild? Especially ones that state someone isn't working hard? 

I don't think many (if anyone) likes the Mauer contract. But had they not paid him close to market value to retain him, the fan base would have revolted. 

The only question now is whether he plays well enough this season to keep his spot instead of paying him to DH or ride the pine. If he remains a sub .280 hitter with a lowered on-base percentage, and keeps the starting spot, then I'll start asking questions.