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Torii's Next Stop, The Mound


Ted Schwerzler

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Last night, Torii Hunter decided to officially hang up his cleats after 19 seasons playing Major League Baseball. Having spent the majority of his career with the Twins, the fan favorite no doubt will go down as one of the most celebrated Minnesota sports figures ever. What he should not do though is see his number hung from the rafters (er above Barrio in left field). Instead, his next stop should be the mound for a ceremonial first pitch.

 

There's little denying that Torii Hunter gave both the Minnesota Twins and the game of baseball a significant amount of lift. He was a nine-time Gold Glove award winner, he went to four All Star games, and he won two Silver Sluggers in his career. The Arkansas native belted 353 career home runs, tallied 2,452 hits, and drove in 1,391 runs. By all measurable standards it was a great career.

 

That also presents the issue for Hunter in regards to retiring number 48. It was great, but not exceptional.

As things stand currently, the Minnesota Twins have retired just seven numbers. Those include Kirby Puckett, Harmon Killebrew, Kent Hrbek, Tony Oliva, Rod Carew, Tom Kelly, and Bert Blyleven. Four of those players are in the Hall of Fame, one is an eight-time All Star, another is a two-time World Series manager, and the final is somewhat of a by-product of being a hometown hero. So, where does Torii fit among that grouping?

 

In terms of statistical quantification, Hunter has compiled a career 41.6 fWAR. That number is higher than only Tony Oliva (40.7 fWAR) and Kent Hrbek (37.6 fWAR). It trails significantly behind Kirby Puckett (66.1 fWAR), Rod Carew (72.3 fWAR), and Bert Blyleven (102.9). Hunter's best season by fWAR standards came in 2012 (with the Angels) when he posted a 5.2 mark. On a per season basis, he's averaged just 2.19 fWAR. To put that into context, Eddie Rosario posted a 2.3 fWAR for the Twins in 2013.

 

When deciding whether or not to retire Hunter's number, it's probably less about the numbers than the other factors surrounding it. Looking back on his career, you'd be hard pressed to argue that Hunter's value across Twins Territory was not first and foremost felt through an emotional attachment. He was fun to watch, played the game the right way, and got it done. As noted above though, he was great, but not exceptional. Allowing him in the club opens up a difficult door.

 

Looking back at some of the teams Torii was best known for, there's two other names that would seem to be in his class. Both Brad Radke and Joe Nathan could have a similar claim to make should Hunter's jersey be no more. Radke owned a 38.7 fWAR despite being a pitcher and playing for only 12 seasons (he also was with the Twins for all of them). While Nathan can't be quantified through WAR, his Twins record saves total comes full circle.

 

In total, the suggestion is far from Torii Hunter not being celebrated, he absolutely should. However, he should not be revered, and the honor of a number no longer being available should remain a sacred right of passage. Hunter has my vote to throw out the first pitch on Opening Day 2016, but leave the jersey retiring to those who achieved more.

 

For more from Off The Baggy, click here. Follow @tlschwerz

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Not in the HOF but a lifetime Twin? I'd say yes, retire his number.

 

But spending as much time away from the Twins as he did, I just couldn't see retiring his number.

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I disagreed with retiring both Hrbek's and Blyleven's numbers. I would disagree with retiring Torii's as well, but he is a Twins Hall of Famer for sure. Congratulations to Hunter on a fine career.

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If Hunter had not come back this year, I would've said no. Now, let's see what happens the next couple of years. If this team makes a World Series and the young OF are a big part of the success, Hunter might become part of a final Twins HOF-type story. Retire his number? Probably not.

 

 

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I disagreed with retiring both Hrbek's and Blyleven's numbers. I would disagree with retiring Torii's as well, but he is a Twins Hall of Famer for sure. Congratulations to Hunter on a fine career.

 

I have to disagree with you about Blyleven. He was a dominant pitcher throughout his early twenties. He just didn't get much support. He had a 47.1 fWAR in his first seven years (6.7 WAR/yr), then returned to help win a World Series. His fWAR was second in MLB to Tom Seaver in his first Twins stint.

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No question Hunter is a Twins Hall of Famer. It may not even be all that long before they do it. 

 

I also think he's done enough in his career to be one of those guys that stays on the MLB HOF ballot for a few years. His numbers, coupled with his defense are very impressive.

 

However, for me, retiring a number is bigger and needs to be more exclusive. In my opinion, it should be just about their Twins career. When it comes to bWAR, Hunter during his Twins years only, is tied for 15th all-time in Twins history (1961-present) with Jim Perry.  

 

That said, I would be fine if no one wore that uniform number again, just not formalizing it in the banners. 

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I would not retire his number either. It's already too easily done. And this would lower the bar further. That's not particularly a shot at Hunter. It's more of a call to keep the standards higher. Hrbeck? Lifelong Twin, although I still think a bit of an underachiever. But also, face of the franchise, and leader. Blyleven? In the HOF, nuff said. Hunter? Great Twin, but also took the money and ran. Had a very convenient and profitable 10.5m epiphany at the end.

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I disagreed with retiring both Hrbek's and Blyleven's numbers. I would disagree with retiring Torii's as well, but he is a Twins Hall of Famer for sure. Congratulations to Hunter on a fine career.

Bert is a toughie only in the sense that he only played half his career here but that is still 11 years. His win totals while with the Twins are as follows;10, 16, 17, 20, 17, 15, 4 in first stint, 8, 17, 15, and 10 during his 2nd. He was traded during the season in the 7th year of his first stint and didn't leave for greener pastures.

He was vital to the 87 team's success, our first major sports championship since the forgotten Mpls Lakers. He is in the HOF as much for what he did here as anywhere else.

I am old enough to remember the aging nucleus of the Twin's teams he played on early in his career, thus his nearly .500 record. They won 98 games his rookie year then went on to win totals of 74, 77, 81, 82, 76 and finally 85 until he was traded. Many of his losses were low scoring 1 run games as evidenced by an ERA well under 3.00 during 4 of his 6 first season and at or very close to 3.00 the other 2 seasons. The complete game and innings pitched totals he put up were astounding and he still lasted over 20 seasons. He would be a GOD now with those stats.

The Twin's all time pitching stats include those of the Washington Senators so I'm excluding them when I attempt to find Blyleven's place among Twin's pitching records. He's second to Jim Kaat in wins for the Twins, 4th in ERA with way more innings pitched than those above him, 3rd in #of starts, 2nd in innings pitched, 1st in SrikeOuts, 5th in WHIP, again with 1300 more innings pitched than the closest guy above him.

Kaat, Radke and Santana all played for much better Twins teams than Blyleven, yet still trail him in most pitching categories. Kaat only bested Blyleven in number of wins, innings pitched and HR and BB allowed rates per season though he did surpass Blyleven in total Hr's and BB's allowed with all the extra innings pitched.

Kaat had more wins for way better teams, but his ERA and WHIP weren't as good and Bert struck out nearly 200 more guys in roughly 450 less innings. Radke was near him in wins but gave up over 80 more HRs in 100 less innings. Though Radke did walk far fewer guys than Blyleven he still has a higher WHIP of 1.26 vs 1.19 which tells me that Radke was far more hittable. Radke was the quintessential "pitch to contact" guy that the Twins based their drafting on for too many years.

You have to go back to Walter Johnson, one of the all time best ever to find a more dominant pitcher with reasonable longevity in the Twins/Senators organization, than Bert Blyleven. Blyleven is arguably the most dominant pitcher to ever don a Twin's uniform for a reasonably long period of time. Jim Kaat is the only one who comes somewhat close, with Brad Radke and Johan Santana perhaps tied for a distant 4th.

I think yes Bert did enough, and certainly more than any other Twins pitcher, to deserve to have his jersey number retired.

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