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Developing Yordano Ventura


jorgenswest

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The Twins have been notoriously slow at moving pitchers through the system while they wait for consistency. I thought it might be interesting to see how some of other young pitchers moved through their systems. How about Yordano Ventura? Yordano Ventura and Alex Meyer both pitched in the Carolina League in 2012. Meyer started in low-A and arrived about the time Ventura was leaving. What was the Royals plan for Ventura? Did they wait for consistency?

 

2010- He started the year in the Dominican summer league. He pitched 52 innings in the Arizona rookie league mixing 6 starts in 14 games. What would the Twins do? Elizabethton or Low A?

 

2011- The Royals moved him to Low-A. This was Ventura's first full year in the United States. At 20 years old, he started 19 games and threw 84 innings for a 4.27 ERA. He averaged a little over 4 innings a start. He also was injured midseason. What would the Twins do? Would they begin him at the same level at 21 and hope that he found some success and confidence or would they move him up in spite of only 84 shaky innings and the injury?

 

2012- The Royals moved him up.He started the next year in high A. He started 16 games for Wilmington. On July 15 he moved up to AA. He pitched well in high A with a 3.30 ERA and lots of strikeouts and a good number of walks, but what about consistency? His start prior to the call up lasted 2.2 innings and he gave up 7 hits and 6 runs. His 5 starts prior consisted of outings of 1.2, 5, 7, 5 and 2.2. He was not the winning pitcher in any of those starts. In those 21 innings he did strike out 31 but he walked 9. What would the Twins do? Move him up?

 

2012 AA- The Royals moved him up. He was challenged. He struggled mightily in his first start at AA that summer (4 IP, 9H, 7R). Then he was injured and missed much of August. He returned at the end of August to start two more games. This must have shaken his confidence. How did he respond?

 

2013- He started in AA. He pitched really well in April and May. Through June 1, he had a 2.34 ERA and the only blemish was 20 walks in 57 innings. Was he consistent? His start on May 22 went 4.1 innings giving up 9 hits and 7 runs while walking 3. What would the Twins do? On June 1, the Royals moved him up.

 

2013 AAA- He started 14 games in AAA. He struggled with an ERA of 3.74 and a WHIP of 1.458. In his last three AAA starts, he gave up 22 hits and 10 runs in 16.1 innings. What would the Twins do?

 

The Royals called him up. They didn't wait until 2014 to put him in the rotation. They called him up in September of 2013 in spite of his AAA performance.

 

The Royals had a plan for Ventura's arm. His innings at each level are remarkably consistent. From Low A to AAA, He pitched 84, 76, 87 and 77 innings spanning 66 starts between low A and AAA. He did not show consistency. He was out twice with injuries. He struggled with walks. The Royals saw the arm and the strike outs. They didn't wait until he mastered a level. They didn't worry about shaking his confidence. They continued to challenge him.

 

If Alex Meyer had been a Royal, would we have seen him in the postseason?

 

Has Berrios been following a path similar to Ventura? He has 44 starts from low A through AAA at this point. Do the Twins have a plan for him to hit the majors later this year? Will he need to show consistency in AAA before we see him?

 

Lewis Thorpe has 16 starts in over 70 low A innings. Where will the Twins start him next year? What would the Royals do?

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There are way too many variables here to draw valid conclusions about what one organization would do compared to another.  Every pitching prospect needs to be regarded uniquely. For example, Meyer was injured, and Ventura was a more highly-rated prospect. Ventura was ready in 2014. Meyer would have had his head handed to him, if you ask me. Maybe the Twins are slightly more deliberate in advancing prospects, but it's hardly a pattern that allows one to conclude something about one organization's success compared to another, IMO.

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Alex Meyer was the better rated prospect by both MLB.com and Baseball America at the time the Twins acquired him.

 

The Royals gave Duffy a combined 15 starts in AA and AAA before he hit the majors.

 

Jake Odorizzi followed the same route as Ventura. Low A, Hi A/AA, AA/AAA/September call up.

 

In mid June last year, Meyer had 14 starts for AAA. He had good numbers certainly comparable with Ventura in as many AAA starts. He had many more AA/AAA starts than Duffy. The Twins were looking for a replacement for Deduno. The Twins went with Yohan Pino. I think the Royals make a different decision.

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Perkins Garza, Baker, Blackburn all came up through the system rather quickly.. Berrios is doing that now. Gibson would have except for arm issues.

Odorizzi may have been called up, but the pitching savvy Rays sent him down the following year.

Had Meyer not have had shoulder issues the Twins might have brought him up for September. There are differernt issues for each pitcher. To say that the Twins handling of Meyer represents an overly cautious system is a stretch.

The biggest problem in assessing how the Twins handle a drafted pitcher's progression to a  major leauge caliber starter is that there was such a dry strech that there is not a reference point.

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Alex Meyer was the better rated prospect by both MLB.com and Baseball America at the time the Twins acquired him.

 

The Royals gave Duffy a combined 15 starts in AA and AAA before he hit the majors.

 

Jake Odorizzi followed the same route as Ventura. Low A, Hi A/AA, AA/AAA/September call up.

 

In mid June last year, Meyer had 14 starts for AAA. He had good numbers certainly comparable with Ventura in as many AAA starts. He had many more AA/AAA starts than Duffy. The Twins were looking for a replacement for Deduno. The Twins went with Yohan Pino. I think the Royals make a different decision.

Ventura, by anyone's estimation, was a superior pitcher to Meyer in 2014. Part of this may be related to Meyer's return from injury.

 

Duffy has had his struggles. Could this be in part because he was rushed?

 

Jake Odorizzi has yet to establish himself as a rotation mainstay, although he's closer than May or Meyer at doing so. Like Meyer, he's likely to do so in 2015.

 

Yohan Pino was the better pitcher at the time of that decision. Meyer was on a pitch limit and had some control issues. I think the Royals make the same decision.

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Perkins Garza, Baker, Blackburn all came up through the system rather quickly.. Berrios is doing that now. Gibson would have except for arm issues.

Generally agree, but you probably want to leave Blackburn off this list -- it was over 6 years between his draft and his debut at age 25 and a half.

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I get the situational factors around Meyer, but I don't think this phrasing is going to win many arguments.

Yohan Pino was the better performer at the time? ;)

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The Twins were mildly aggressive (is that a thing? :) ) when they acquired Meyer, slotting him into AA.  He injured his shoulder on June 1st that year, which knocked him out over 2 months and pretty much nixed his chance at a midseason or late season promotion.

 

True, they handled him with kid gloves in 2014, including passing him up for promotions which many of us disagreed with, but it does seem to be health-related.  As a poster upthread mentioned, Perkins, Baker, Slowey, Garza, Gibson, Hendriks, and now Berrios have all been moved quickly through the system.  (Lohse, Radke, and Milton are a few older names that moved quickly. Adam Johnson too.)

 

The Twins problem has been lack of such prospects, or the prospects busting.  Maybe we're more conservative with international guys rather than draft guys, but in the Terry Ryan era, we don't even have a international signing equivalent of Yordano Ventura to compare against, really.

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