Nice Data

There is the theory that pitch framing saves runs. Where is the actual data that proves it. Turkenkopf who was in on the idea from the start stated that there were not the runs saved as projected.

I think this way of parsing the data (by pitcher) helps clarify the picture a bit.

Someone with the time and interest might want to go even further with this and see how these catchers frame specific pitches.

Seeing Deduno's numbers don't surprise me - it seems that he struggles to hit the target that the catcher sets for him. His lack of pinpoint control means that the catcher's glove will be moving on most pitches.

It makes sense that catchers would have a tough time with Pelfrey, too, assuming he's throwing a sinking fastball. Even when he was pitching rather poorly, his stuff ends up moving quite a bit vertically in (and out) of the zone.

Pitchers that have a good deal of movement on their pitches I assume are harder to frame.

Is there data to suggest that over the course of the season these duos improve or get worse? Suzuki has not been a great pitch framer in the past, either, but in his defense he was learning the tendencies of a new staff in Minn. Maybe he gets better the more familiar he becomes with the movement of the pitches? That may just be wishful thinking, though.

There is the theory that pitch framing saves runs. Where is the actual data that proves it. Turkenkopf who was in on the idea from the start stated that there were not the runs saved as projected.

Dan Turkenkopf's work that showed the run value of turning a strike into a ball. I think the change referred to was from the original .16 to .14 due to count. We haven't heard from him in a while because he was hired by the Rays two seasons ago. It is his manager with the famous quote about Molina saving 50 runs. It is his organization that employs Molina in spite of a slash line of 195/239/201.

Dan Turkenkopf's work that showed the run value of turning a strike into a ball. I think the change referred to was from the original .16 to .14 due to count. We haven't heard from him in a while because he was hired by the Rays two seasons ago. It is his manager with the famous quote about Molina saving 50 runs. It is his organization that employs Molina in spite of a slash line of 195/239/201.

It was adjusted because there was a high rate of strikes being called on 0-3 and 1-3 counts. There was no adjustments or consideration ever given to the fact that there are significantly less calls per opportunity in extra innings. There is a decided variation in inning and pitch framing. That there is a variation by the inning would say there are other factors other than pitch framing going into these decisions thus the ability to impact the outcome is less.

Any manager would say anything to get into the heads of the opponent . If he can convince someone to swing at outside/low pitches and miss, his pitcher is way ahead.

Molina is having a career bad year at the plate. What are the other options? What is at AAA for the Rays probably would not hit, either. A 2 million contract on a low budget team Maddon has to play him.

It was adjusted because there was a high rate of strikes being called on 0-3 and 1-3 counts. There was no adjustments or consideration ever given to the fact that there are significantly less calls per opportunity in extra innings. There is a decided variation in inning and pitch framing. That there is a variation by the inning would say there are other factors other than pitch framing going into these decisions thus the ability to impact the outcome is less.

 

Any manager would say anything to get into the heads of the opponent . If he can convince someone to swing at outside/low pitches and miss' date=' his pitcher is way ahead.

 

Molina is having a career bad year at the plate. What are the other options? What is at AAA for the Rays probably would not hit, either. A 2 million contract on a low budget team Maddon has to play him.[/quote']

 

If you are interested, BP breaks down framing runs by count. The data by battery is linked above. They also have it organized by team and individual catcher in other data sets.

 

Many teams value this skill in their rostering decisions. It doesn't appear to be something you value. I think the Twins agree with you.

Good work jorgenswest.. is the league +/- percentage right at 0.0? If so I'd say Pinto is just fine as a pitch framer. (selectively throwing out Correia and Pelfrey, both who will not be around here much longer.)

I don't think it is set to 0. It happens to be close. The median team is slightly negative, but the 6 top teams weigh the data towards the positive side.

team data

Pinto isn't a good pitch framer. Suzuki isn't either. Both are better than Doumit. The Twins rank 30th again.

Both lefties on that list showed horrible with both (though so did Gibson and Pelfrey). I'd be curious to see Thielbar, just as an extra data point, though I honestly doubt you could determine anything by that.

Your own data could point to other factors affecting the call of the pitches. If it is pitch framing causing the ball to be called a strike you should relatively even numbers for all of the pitchers. That is not the case. Deduno has and Pelfrey had control issues. Their deviation is higher. Umpires are expecting them to be out of the zone and call it that way. Perkins pitches when the game is on the line, he does not get the free strikes. Umpires want to call a fair game when the game is on the line. Swarzak tends to pitch when the game is not on the line, he got more calls. That would support the notion the umpire wants to move the game along.

It is something that could be studied. The data has been shown to be consistent year to year for catchers. It is also easy for catchers to gather a large sample in a short time.

How consistent is the data for individual for pitchers? To get a better sample size pitching roles could be compared. Do mop up men do better since they are in low leverage situations? Is it more difficult for closers? Of all the Twins Burton has lost the greatest percentage of strikes this year so I am not sure how that fits.

Max Marchi, Dan Turkenkopf and Mike Fast are the pioneers in this area. All of them have been hired by major league clubs. Perhaps this is the kind of detail they are doing for their organizations.

Is there much historical data? For instance, Greg Maddux had the reputation for pinpoint control - I wonder how his catchers ranked as pitch framers - did they help him have better control, or did Maddux make them look like better framers because they usually didn't have to move their gloves very far?

Something I've noticed Pinto does with runners on base - wait till the last possible second to setup for a pitch for fear of tipping to the baserunner where the location of the pitch will be. This delays the umpire crouching and I suspect contributes to Pinto losing strikes.

I hope you're right that he figures it out.

Nice write-up

It is something that could be studied. The data has been shown to be consistent year to year for catchers. It is also easy for catchers to gather a large sample in a short time.

 

How consistent is the data for individual for pitchers? To get a better sample size pitching roles could be compared. Do mop up men do better since they are in low leverage situations? Is it more difficult for closers? Of all the Twins Burton has lost the greatest percentage of strikes this year so I am not sure how that fits.

 

Max Marchi' date=' Dan Turkenkopf and Mike Fast are the pioneers in this area. All of them have been hired by major league clubs. Perhaps this is the kind of detail they are doing for their organizations.[/quote']

 

As the correlation to pitch framing and ERA is very low, I would doubt it.

They all share these common traits: They know sabermetrics, they know the latest assessment tools and how to use them, and as writers they can clearly articulate a thought on a subject that is newer to the audience.

Fast was doing some work with hit f/x when he was hired. The thought being BABIP for a pitcher is not random. They were looking at a bunch of factors. Never found a follow up.