My bullish-ness on Baez has been tanking lately. I'm actually pretty concerned about Baez at this point. His K rate is getting extreme and he's offering at 47% of pitches outside the zone now this season with a brutally low 62% overall contact rate and whiff rate cruising past 20%...

I mean... those numbers make Nick Gordon's look solid. There are a lot of other free agent shortstop options out there.

It's pretty obvious the FO has moved on from Gordon.  If he were a legit major league SS, he'd be starting.  He's not and his offense is not good enough to keep him up here.

As a Chicagoan, have to agree with Bean that Baez has regressed offensively.  He's become an all or nothing player. We don't need another one of those!  Correa, Seager, or Semien would be a big upgrade in FA.  The problem is, if the Twins are really in a retooling rather than rebuilding mode, their need for top of the rotation and a closer preclude signing a top FA SS, unless Pohlad wanted to go all in.  By now, we all realize that ain't happening!

Personally I think the Twins should try out Palacios at the MLB level.  I like Gordon but the lack of power, lack of walks and his error rate at short don't give me great confidence he will stick there.  Palacios has power 16 HR's on the year and counting.  His K rate is only 22% and his walk rate is close 100 points above his BA.  It looks like a pretty solid profile to me.  From I have heard not seen he seems to be OK defensively although some think he profiles better at 2nd.  

I know those nice stats will take a dive at the MLB level but given where he is at if they want to keep him they would have to add him to the 40 man at the end of the year anyway.  With Simmons so poor at the plate and not as great as he once was defensively Palacios can't do much worse. If they don't like what they see with Palacios then they can DFA him as he would have been lost to rule V anyway.  If he looks solid then they would finally have a legit shortstop prospect who they know can handle the position and fill in as needed in 2022.

I think they can afford to take that kind of chance on a player who has all the required skills at short and give him some MLB time to see where he is at.  He could be the solution to short they have been looking for.

At this point, I would be comfortable with the team DFA'ing him right now. It may not send a positive message to potential FA's, but he has not performed at a level anywhere near worthy of being on an MLB roster at this point. 

His defense numbers at Baseball Ref. say you are wrong; you are blaming him for a team that is under performing as whole and while too many think the Minor League Rookies are some sort of miracle cure.

26 minutes ago, RpR said:

His defense numbers at Baseball Ref. say you are wrong; you are blaming him for a team that is under performing as whole and while too many think the Minor League Rookies are some sort of miracle cure.

Well every MLB player starts out as a Rookie so technically they are the "miracle cure".  I don't have anything against Simmons but he can't help this team get to the playoffs and his current negative war means he isn't part of the future either.  A rookie might not perform any better but at least they would have a chance to be a part of the future and that is greater than any value Simmons can bring to the Twins at this point IMO. 

Simmons needs to go but we're kidding ourselves if we think the Twins will spend the money for Baez, Seeger, or Correa. This team will spend it's money on pitching and either move Polanco back to SS or sign a Freddy Galvis / Jose Iglesias stop gap SS for next year.  I think it's telling that Simmons is still playing SS every day with Polanco at 2B. That tells me that the Twins have already decided that they are not going back to Polanco at SS next year and that Gordon isn't a SS option.  Otherwise, we'd use the rest of this year for Polanco and/or Gordon to play SS and see if either can play the position well enough to be the SS next year. Get ready for a filler again next year while we wait for Lewis, Palacios or Martin to come up longer term. 

26 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Simmons needs to go but we're kidding ourselves if we think the Twins will spend the money for Baez, Seeger, or Correa. This team will spend it's money on pitching and either move Polanco back to SS or sign a Freddy Galvis / Jose Iglesias stop gap SS for next year.  I think it's telling that Simmons is still playing SS every day with Polanco at 2B. That tells me that the Twins have already decided that they are not going back to Polanco at SS next year and that Gordon isn't a SS option.  Otherwise, we'd use the rest of this year for Polanco and/or Gordon to play SS and see if either can play the position well enough to be the SS next year. Get ready for a filler again next year while we wait for Lewis, Palacios or Martin to come up longer term. 

Yep no question in my mind they are going to need a filler yet again next year.  It is too important a position to trust to guys with little to no MLB experience.  It depends on what they do with Buxton to some extent but have to believe they think Lewis or Palacios can still handle that spot on the cheap for them once they are ready.  

They are not going to overpay for Baez, Seeger or Correa and the teams they are currently with might work out deals with them in the end anyway.  It will be another filler year and hope someone comes up through the system to take that spot.  Lewis might be able to do it by mid 2022 or 2023 but his bat is such a wild card it is hard to say.  Palacios looks solid at short to me but not likely going to be an all star defensively or offensively. He would be best as a utility player but might be good enough to carve out a shortstop role. That would be betting on the high end of his potential though so not a likely outcome.  He kind of reminds of Escobar a little bit.  Talented but would need to refine a skill or skills to be better than average. Esco got that hit tool working for him and made him a very good player.  He started at short but ended up at third and I could see the same thing happening to Palacios

I don't understand Twins management of this roster. Simmons is only taking up space at this point.  Release him.  No reason to keep him here when you have players that need MLB experience/ devolpment/ evaluation time.  

46 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

I don't understand Twins management of this roster. Simmons is only taking up space at this point.  Release him.  No reason to keep him here when you have players that need MLB experience/ devolpment/ evaluation time.  

Because if fans want to watch the Saints, they will go to Saints games, not pay big league prices to watch rookies prove they are still rookies.

22 hours ago, Dman said:

Yep no question in my mind they are going to need a filler yet again next year.  It is too important a position to trust to guys with little to no MLB experience.  It depends on what they do with Buxton to some extent but have to believe they think Lewis or Palacios can still handle that spot on the cheap for them once they are ready.  

They are not going to overpay for Baez, Seeger or Correa and the teams they are currently with might work out deals with them in the end anyway.  It will be another filler year and hope someone comes up through the system to take that spot.  Lewis might be able to do it by mid 2022 or 2023 but his bat is such a wild card it is hard to say.  Palacios looks solid at short to me but not likely going to be an all star defensively or offensively. He would be best as a utility player but might be good enough to carve out a shortstop role. That would be betting on the high end of his potential though so not a likely outcome.  He kind of reminds of Escobar a little bit.  Talented but would need to refine a skill or skills to be better than average. Esco got that hit tool working for him and made him a very good player.  He started at short but ended up at third and I could see the same thing happening to Palacios

 

Won't be surprised if Simmons is in the FO plans for next year at the right price.  As mentioned in these comments and elsewhere, the Twins need to focus their money on pitching and what are they gonna find that's overall better than Simmons with whatever is left over?  Maybe a trade will be done to fill this hole but it isn't like whatever we put out there with what we have today is going to be that much better.

28 minutes ago, heresthething said:

Won't be surprised if Simmons is in the FO plans for next year at the right price.  As mentioned in these comments and elsewhere, the Twins need to focus their money on pitching and what are they gonna find that's overall better than Simmons with whatever is left over?  Maybe a trade will be done to fill this hole but it isn't like whatever we put out there with what we have today is going to be that much better.

Sure they might bring him back on a discount deal but with a 560 OPS it would take a pretty steep discount.  I can't think of any players off the top of my head that would survive that level of offensive futility in MLB.  I think you would have to start looking at pitchers to find someone close to that number.  That is not a bat you want to pencil into the lineup on a daily basis.

Simmons is going to have to take a MiLB deal at this point, and a guy like that doesn't provide an obvious plan at SS for 2022. Not sure why some people feel watching horrible veterans play instead of potentially excellent rookies makes for more entertaining games, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

21 hours ago, RpR said:

Because if fans want to watch the Saints, they will go to Saints games, not pay big league prices to watch rookies prove they are still rookies.

Or the opposite. Fans will go to see the new young players because wins at this point don't really mean much in the standings (is finishing ahead of Detroit and Kansas City meaningful?). Regardless of what the metrics say, Simmons is not providing game saving defense or adding much to the offense. Like Dman mentioned, maybe a Palacios audition could provide value.

Count me in the small crowd that thinks we should be keeping Simmons thru the year and consider re-signing him. He is in the top five among SS in both DRS and OOA. He is the only SS in the top five of both lists. He's a near lock to win the AL Gold Glove.

I'm willing to sacrafice offense for that kind of defense at SS. Sure, I'd prefer both, but understanding payroll limitations, I'm good with it, especially when the alternative seems to be moving Polanco over. We should do what we can to help our young pitchers for the remainder of the season. 

4 hours ago, AceWrigley said:

Or the opposite. Fans will go to see the new young players because wins at this point don't really mean much in the standings (is finishing ahead of Detroit and Kansas City meaningful?). Regardless of what the metrics say, Simmons is not providing game saving defense or adding much to the offense. Like Dman mentioned, maybe a Palacios audition could provide value.

To 98.6 percent of the fans, winning is every thing, or they would not go.

It's time for him to go after his latest twitter post today. His views are completely contradictory of the organizations. These posts all came after he caused the Covid shutdown as OP mentioned.

This has to be the last straw with him. If they don't DFA him today, then they won't. 

2 hours ago, RpR said:

To 98.6 percent of the fans, winning is every thing, or they would not go.

Of course we all go to see the Twins win, but does it benefit the team for the future to put the best probable winning team out there just to win today? It's important to see who might be a contributor to a possible championship team next year and following.

30 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

Of course we all go to see the Twins win, but does it benefit the team for the future to put the best probable winning team out there just to win today? It's important to see who might be a contributor to a possible championship team next year and following.

That is what AAA is for; they get to the big show when they have already shown, they may be ready, not for more training.

All have to adapt, but I doubt many are sent up as maybe-kinda-sorta ready; injuries in the big league may force that but that is no longer the case for bringing up any more wannabes -- well pitching possibly.

11 hours ago, Minny505 said:

Count me in the small crowd that thinks we should be keeping Simmons thru the year and consider re-signing him. He is in the top five among SS in both DRS and OOA. He is the only SS in the top five of both lists. He's a near lock to win the AL Gold Glove.

I'm willing to sacrafice offense for that kind of defense at SS. Sure, I'd prefer both, but understanding payroll limitations, I'm good with it, especially when the alternative seems to be moving Polanco over. We should do what we can to help our young pitchers for the remainder of the season. 

There's a limit to how much even an airtight defender can contribute with the glove. At a site called the Fielding Bible I found Simmons's DRS given as 9 runs, good for a rank of 3rd. I'll assume whichever source you use has something similar. Conventional analytics has about 10 runs worth a win, either in terms of what's added over a season or what's saved.  So our starting SS has saved approximately a win versus a replacement player from AAA. Meanwhile his bat is somewhere around 0 wins, relative to the same replacement level. An average MLB player is about 2 wins above a AAA replacement. Giving Simmons credit for similar rate of production for the remainder of the season, he's still not average. I.e. below average. I can't see investing in a declining asset if we're trying to win anything next season.

If SS is that worthless then Polanco should still be a short, or Arraez should be there, as "Figures won't lie: but men that draw up the tables may."

22 hours ago, AceWrigley said:

Of course we all go to see the Twins win, but does it benefit the team for the future to put the best probable winning team out there just to win today? It's important to see who might be a contributor to a possible championship team next year and following.

Me personally I have zero interest in going to the game to watch a bunch of fielders and hitters in way over their head. Example Gordon and Palacios  this year. I want Miranda up, but not going to pay to go see him.

Bring up Balazovic or Canterino  to start a game, and I will be at target field. (Maybe even Winder)