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Starting Over with a New Minimum Floor Rotation and How do the Twins Proceed from There.


Brandon

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With the rotation in shambles with the failure of Shoemaker and Happ and the ineffectiveness of Dobnak and his injury which put the Twins in a hole where they were best served trading their best pitcher Berrios.  The Twins are now working on a new floor for the rotation, so they have something to work with going into the offseason.  As of now the rotation for 2022 is setting up to be Maeda and ????

To start setting the floor the Twins kept Pineda and there is talk he could sign an extension and stay a while longer.  That would be a boon to our floor.  We have also started Bailey Ober several times and he is starting to turn in some decent starts and may be a solid 4th or 5th starter next year.  We are also currently looking at Griffin Jax and Charlie Barnes to see what they can do.  If either of these 2 guys show that they can be counted on to post a 4.5 era we would have another 4th or 5th starter who is at least capable at the end of the rotation.  I hope a few others get opportunities too. 

Does anyone know the timeline for Smeltzer’s, or Thorpe’s return from injuries?  With Dobnak’s contract do we know when he will be back too this season.  I know he will be in the mix next season to show this one was the aberration.  As for now the starters we end up keeping will at least give us depth or a long man for next season. 

So now we end 2021 with a rotation of:

Maeda, Ober, Jax, Barnes or anyone who shows promise of being a 4th or 5th starter.  We also go into the offseason with a stable of pitchers who are almost ready to contribute at the major league level.

Other potential 4th or 5th starters or depth include Thorpe, Smeltzer and Dobnak

We have several pitchers near ready including the three we just acquired Joe Ryan, Strotman, Woods-Richardson.  And the those we developed internally, Balazovich, Duran, Winder, Sands, and maybe Vallimont. 

So how do we turn all of this and other available talent and potential free agent signings into a great rotation that can compete in 2022?

Which pitchers will be available for trade?  With all the pitchers we have, maybe a trade of a 4th / 5th starter type like Ober and a developing pitcher like Winder or even Joe Ryan and a player like Larnarch can bring us a decent starting pitcher in a trade?  Who are the available free agents?  It seems we should have around 60-70 million available by back of napkin simple math

Based on the available assets with which to build out a rotation I suspect we will have a competitive rotation.  How do you see us rebuilding the rotation with these pieces for next year? 

Here is the list of most of the starting pitchers who are free agents (I removed a few easy no's):  I do not know who is available for trade. 

Brett Anderson (34)               Marcus Stroman (30)            Noah Syndergaard (29)               Julio Teheran (31)                  Jose Urena (30)                     Vince Velasquez (30)        Anthony DeSclafani (32)           Justin Verlander (39)       Michael Wacha (30)               Alex Wood (31)                   Chase Anderson (34)                                                  Tyler Anderson(32)                    Chris Archer (33)                   Mike Fiers (37)                             Jake Arrieta (36)                     Dylan Bundy (29)                   Trevor Cahill (33)              Alex Cobb (34)                            Johnny Cueto (36)                 Zach Davies (29)                          Danny Duffy (33)                    Kevin Gausman (31)              Jon Gray (30)                    Zack Greinke (38)                       Andrew Heaney (31)             Rich Hill (42)                                Merrill Kelly (32)                     Yusei Kikuchi (31)                                                  Kwang-Hyun Kim (33)               Corey Kluber (36)                   Wade LeBlanc (37)                       Jon Lester (38)                        Michael Lorenzen (30)         Jordan Lyles (31)              Carlos Martinez (30)                 Wade Miley (35)                     Mike Montgomery (32)             Matt Moore (33)                     Daniel Norris (29)                                             Ivan Nova (35)                          James Paxton (33)                   Martin Perez (31)                       Michael Pineda (33)               Jose Quintana (33)                 Robbie Ray (30)                Garrett Richards (34)               Tanner Roark (35)                   Carlos Rodon (29)                       Drew Smyly (33)                     Eduardo Rodriguez (29)                                            Tyson Ross (35)                        Aaron Sanchez (29)                 Max Scherzer (37)                

Here is my guestimated rotation for 2022

1.  Maeda     2. Pineda (Resign 2 year 26 million)    3. Johnny Cuerto (1 or 2 year contract w/ no draft picks attached 15 million per season)     4.  Ober     5.  Dobnak     6.  Ryan, Woods-Richardson, Balazovich and Winder on the cusp.   

The Twins seem to prefer not signing pitchers to long term contracts if they can help it.  A 2 year extension for Pineda is the norm.  and Cuerto is advancing in age and is still effective.  A 1 or 2 year deal may work out for him.  Maybe Noah Syndergaard too but he is more of a ? at this point.  I thought of someone like Gray as he is durable and wont cost too much on an annual basis.  There is room for a starter to come up and replace either Ober or Dobnak at any point even both.  (A benefit to having a floor is the floor is replaceable)  Let me know how you see the rotation stacking up for next season.  

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This is all a little premature to speculate on the offseason but also a natural consequence for fans supporting a team in a lost season. Thus, the floor for me would be signing a top free agent, trading for a solid pitcher, Maeda as a #3, and two pitchers from the field to fill out the rotation. The FA will require more than $100 million and the trade may be at a steep price. For sure, the Twins will need to be active or tear it all down. Happ, Shoemaker, and Colome didn't cut it and neither will similar signings. 

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32 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

This is all a little premature to speculate on the offseason but also a natural consequence for fans supporting a team in a lost season. Thus, the floor for me would be signing a top free agent, trading for a solid pitcher, Maeda as a #3, and two pitchers from the field to fill out the rotation. The FA will require more than $100 million and the trade may be at a steep price. For sure, the Twins will need to be active or tear it all down. Happ, Shoemaker, and Colome didn't cut it and neither will similar signings. 

The idea was to show where we are now.  What the Twins goal should be the rest of this season and how developing a pitcher or two gives us a floor going into the offseason where we really need 2 starting pitchers or 1 if we resign Pineda.  I also wanted to show the assets available for trades or money available for free agents.  With all that flexibility, we have so many ways to build the rotation.  I think we resign Pineda and sign a starter on a short term deal to see who develops from the minors and in a season or 2 we can go after a big name pitcher if we want and if we successfully develop some pitching as well.

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The Twins need 4 starting pitchers next year since the only definite rotation spot they have is Maeda. I feel their legitimate rotation options are, in order of likeliness:

  • Ober
  • Ryan
  • Winder
  • Balazovic
  • Sands

I suspect the Twins will plan to use Ober and Ryan and fill two other spots in free agency. How the Twins view their 2022 season will be formed entirely on the pitching rotation they decide upon. Verlander and Stroman = aiming for World Series. Pineda and Cueto = likely statements about how 2022 didn't go the way they were expecting and hoping on their way to 90 losses.

I honestly admit in a previous topic, I think the Twins will go with Pineda and Cueto (exactly my picks).

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I would like to see them sign Dylan Bundy, Danny Duffy, and Yusei Kikuchi.  And bring back Pineda.  That would give the Twins five major league starters and allow the next wave to start in St. Paul and await their call up.

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http://So how do we turn all of this and other available talent and potential free agent signings into a great rotation that can compete in 2022?

This club has too many holes to "compete" in 2022, even if Pohlad opened up his wallet.  Realistically, best outcome would be around .500 with an outside chance of competing for a WC.  So getting a short term expensive FA like Cueto makes little sense.  What makes more sense for a potential contender in 2023 and beyond is to acquire a FA who has shown potential at the big league level to be an ace.  Thor stands out here.  Acquiring a Stroman or Gausman would be ok, I suppose.

It is unlikely any Twin's prospect will jump into a #2 or 3  slot in next 2-3 years, so assuming Maeda takes one of these slots, the FO must decide whether Pineda fits the bill for the other.  If not(and that would be my guess) than a trade for an established mid-rotation guy makes added sense.  We actually have a surplus of IFs/DH candidates and even at C position with Garver or Jeffers providing catcher-hungry teams with an enticing trade candidate.  Such a trade might help alleviate a logjam of Polanco, Arraez, Martin, Lewis and Miranda that seems likely over the next 2-3 years.

As for the 4,5 spots in the rotation, these should be left open for two of Jax, Ober, Balozavic, Duffy, SWR, Winder and/or Strotman.  If none of these prospects can make the jump, than Falvine should be relegated to the dustbin of history, certainly no later than the end of 2022.  Can't even begin to tackle the bullpen woes yet.  That's an issue for another column.

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Maeda and Pineda are fine ML pitchers  ..but id say they are 3, 4 on a good roster. Twins need a #1 and # 2,,and they aren't going to find them in their own Farm system.. they have a bunch of possible 3,4, 5 guys in the system....they always seem to get out AAA and AA hitters but struggle big time when called up. only way Twins are in contention next year is if front office steps up and throws the bucks at 2 quality starters and 2 quality relievers. ..cuz if history repeats itself none of these young guys will get the job done

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