Twins Daily Comment Policy

[glunn]

This thread includes comments and elaboration from the TD moderators. TD members are welcome to comment by posting here instead.

Twins Daily Comment Policy

 

We believe Black Lives Matter and that all people deserve to participate in our conversations. We will be inclusive in our language, our tone, and our actions.

Inclusiveness is language that is free from words, phrases or tones that reflect prejudiced, stereotyped or discriminatory views of particular people or groups. It is also language that does not deliberately or inadvertently exclude people from being seen as part of a group. Inclusive language is sometimes called non-discriminatory language.

We do NOT want to stifle conversations around sensitive topics. We DO want to remove comments and language that would make anyone feel uncomfortable participating in any conversation on Twins Daily. False assumptions and stereotypes can be difficult to detect and while it's not a perfect science, try put yourself in the shoes of another gender/race/background that might be getting discussed, and try to gauge how a particular statement would make you feel. Unfairly grouped? Needlessly generalized? Objectified for the sake of someone's argument? Those are the kinds of comments we will remove.

Twins Daily prides itself on the community of fans it serves, and understands that the forums, comment sections and blogs are central to many members’ enjoyment of the site. We strive for civil, insightful, intelligent, inclusive discourse that welcomes and challenges our passionate readers. Please understand and follow these rules when posting, and consult the more detailed explanations in the comments section below if you require further guidance:

• Respect for others is expected in everything we write, and personal attacks are not allowed.
• Do not be disruptive through trolling, flame-baiting, and thread-jacking.
• A minimal level of grammar and spell-checking is required.
• Avoid inappropriate language.
• Do not copy entire stories from elsewhere on the internet.
• Commercial spam will be deleted on sight and the poster will be banned.

• The site moderators have the capability and authority to edit or delete offending posts, and/or issue warnings which are sent via the site’s Notifications system; warning points may be recorded at that time when necessary. Additional infractions (including attempts to circumvent a ban, such as alternate accounts and IP proxies) may subject you to further moderator action. Please see the comments section below for information on warning points. We always prefer to work with members to avoid bans, but will act when the best interests of the site are at stake.

• If you see a posting that violates these guidelines, do not attempt to police the thread yourself with a complaint there in the thread, and most definitely do not respond with a post of your own in a similar offensive style; either approach may draw moderator actions toward yourself instead of your intended target. If it is a minor violation, it is usually better to just ignore it. However, if you believe it is a serious violation, flag the offending post to the attention of the moderators by clicking the "Report" link found at the bottom of each post (to the left of "Quote"). Appropriate action by the moderators in response to a flagged post may take some time; meanwhile just ignore the post in question, as well as anyone else’s ill-considered responses to it. And remember that an unchecked violation of TD policies does not mean it is suddenly open season.

• Multiple user accounts are not allowed. If you are having difficulties accessing your original account (forgotten/lost password, some other issue), please contact the administrator, using the Contact Us link at the bottom of the site's main page, to have it fixed.

• If you have a question or a concern about these policies or about moderator actions, please don't derail a baseball discussion. Instead, feel free to PM a moderator, or post in the "Questions About MinnCentric" forum, and we'll do our best to respond quickly.

glunn, Head Moderator
snepp (on hiatus)
USAFChief
SQUIRREL
diehardtwinsfan
twinsnorth49
stringer bell
nicksaviking

Hosken Bombo Disco

SwainZag (on hiatus)

Sconnie (on hiatus)

spycake

Thank you for your understanding and commitment to Twins Daily.

[ashbury]

(Note: this and the following posts elaborate on each of the items in the Comment Policy. The intent is to help clarify the meaning - NOT to try and define exactly where the boundaries are. When in doubt, stick with the simple statements in the main policy statement, and try very hard to avoid probing the limits.)

1. Respect for others is expected in everything we write, and personal attacks are not allowed.

This means respect for fellow TD members. It means also showing respect for players, team staff and ownership, journalists, the other teams and their players, player agents, players’ wives… everybody!

It means giving others the benefit of the doubt; it means not being combative, nor looking to take offense at someone else's supposed "tone"; it means not labeling and classifying other posters or groups of people, or applying disdainful nicknames; it means turning the other cheek even when we feel we’re not being treated with respect ourselves. If your purpose in posting is to belittle someone, think twice. If you're trying to express your utter exasperation with another poster, think twice again.

We talk about what has occurred with our favorite team and players, we debate past moves and speculate on future actions, we dissect ideas, we sometimes make jokes and kid each other. But it crosses a line when it becomes overly personal - questioning manhood, courage, honesty or intelligence, or pretending to know how another person’s mind works, or telling somebody to learn baseball. Characterizing others as, for instance, "Negative Nancys" or conversely as "Front Office Apologists", does little but invite bickering. We don't get into arguments about who is a "real fan" or a "true student of the game". We don't use dehumanizing terms like "garbage", "animal", or "thing" in regard to a human being. The line is crossed whether it is about a fellow TD member, or about someone in the public eye.

It's much easier to be accidentally disrespectful to other members (or unnamed groups of members) when you make it be *about* them. That doesn't mean it's always improper to address someone else personally; part of the fun of the site is the sense of community, and we can also joke with each other if it's not likely to be misinterpreted. But when in doubt or when it's contentious - especially if you somehow think you can correct someone else's behavior or change their opinion - just stick to the topic under discussion. It's usually more effective to find a way to say "this is wrong" instead of "you are wrong." Again: the single biggest way posters run afoul of posting respectfully is when they start worrying as much about to whom they are responding as about the topic being discussed.

 

One reason to be wary of making it personal is that you can not control how someone else will interpret what you say. No matter how clearly you try to write, shades of meaning can creep in. When someone misunderstands your statement of fact, they will usually say something that makes clear where the problem is. By contrast, when they misunderstand what you perhaps meant as a gentle joke at their expense, it becomes much harder to recognize and bickering may result without meaning to.

 

The other side of the coin is to avoid making it be about yourself. If you laud your own credentials, or tout some past record of predictions, or even just use yourself as an example of something, you make it very difficult for other posters to resist responding in a way that is also personal. If you choose to make it be about yourself, grow some thick skin, while at the same time not assuming that the others around you have that same hide; and please don't come running to the moderators over minor affronts, nor turn it into bickering. (Back to the first side of the coin, though: if other people do make it about themselves, you don't get a free pass to be disrespectful in response. Resist that temptation.)

Sometimes it is difficult to separate the person from the subject being discussed. Maybe someone's opinion is truly stupid or laughable; it's still better to say "I disagree because..." rather than "that's stupid/laughable because...". Trying to maintain that "I said the idea was idiotic, not that you are idiotic" is too fine a distinction to make in a thread with multiple posters and hundreds of readers. Words like "silly" and "ridiculous" are going to catch a moderator's eye, likewise a response consisting only of "lol". Explain why an idea is mistaken, don't just lazily attach an adjective, epithet or emoticon to the idea. And don't imply that the other person isn't being honest, or is not arguing in good faith. The appropriate response to a "stupid" post is either to rebut it respectfully, or to ignore it and move on - attacking the "stupid" poster will draw moderator attention and action.

Affecting an air of superiority when you are certain that the other party is incorrect is not only contrary to TD policy, it rarely has the desired persuasive effect anyway. Even seemingly innocent phrases like "let's all just..." and "I think we all agree...", or repeating someone's turn of phrase mockingly, can have the effect of talking down to your audience. Keep the discussion to the facts as you see them, and avoid being dismissive or condescending, when you feel the urge to assert your superior analytical powers.

The opposite of respect might be "contempt". Here is an illuminating 3+ minute audio essay by a relationship counselor on that topic. While it is aimed toward helping couples, the overlap to posting in a public forum like TD should be evident:
http://kunr.org/post/contempt

Here is another audio by this counselor, on "emotional intimidation". It too is aimed toward couples, and is aimed even more toward the physical cues in interactions, but the part about bullying contains several nuggets that also apply surprisingly well to a written forum, such as getting caught up in the intensity:
http://kunr.org/post/different-types-intimidation

The hard part is recognizing yourself in these descriptions; as this counselor states at one point, "who ever calms down when they're told to calm down?"

 

Finally, a word about privacy. Twins Daily respects the privacy of its visitors and members; the privacy policy can be read here. By the same token, we expect members to be respectful of each others' privacy. In particular, revealing personal information about another poster (beyond which that poster has specifically chosen to publicly disclose here, and regardless of how "easy" it may be to discover via searching) will be dealt with on a case by case basis and may result in warning points and/or loss of posting privileges. This extends to behavior found on other Internet sites tying the identity of a poster to a Twins Daily account. It amounts to stalking and will not be tolerated.

[ashbury]

2. Do not be disruptive through trolling, flame-baiting, and thread-jacking.
 

Or, stated even more briefly, don't become a Pest to fellow members.

 

A good forum thread often contains digressions - indeed they may be the most interesting or illuminating parts of a given discussion. And a negative opinion is not necessarily more disruptive than a positive one.

But...

• inserting a pet idea into thread after thread, or
• casting in a negative light everything someone says and does, or
• laughing derisively at a post but providing no counter-argument, or
• starting "See I Told You So" threads, or
• making “I was wrong, you were right” your goal in an exchange, or
• accusing another poster of rooting against the team or a player, or
• bantering that looks more like trash talking, or
• making comments destined to revisit standard arguments, or
• contributing one-line comments that add nothing but question everything, or
• "whataboutism," responding to a question by raising a side issue, or
• creating a "sockpuppet" account for deceptive purposes or simply to make annoying posts, or
• inserting politics, religion, etc., where it's not relevant, or with no better purpose than just to stir the pot (including political avatars), or
• making excessive use of sarcasm to slam anyone or to overstate their position, or
• posting that the subject of the thread itself is not worth discussing, or
• making an extreme case for your side and/or putting up a straw man for the other side and/or putting words in someone else's mouth, or
• dwelling on one small point, or
• turning a small-scale discussion into an overly broad one, or
• aggressively defending against a perceived slight, or
• harping on a past trade and posting a daily performance update, or
• getting in someone's face about anything, or
• making it your mission in life to educate your inferiors, or
• reminding readers that you correctly predicted some outcome, months ago, when others happened to disagree, or
• bringing up someone’s words from another thread as though a judge and jury were weighing your evidence about the topic or this other poster,

...these do not contribute to a lively discussion and instead cause participants to at best tune out or in many cases bicker pointlessly, often talking past one another.
 
Bickering in particular is something the moderators will take action against. If you feel the need to angrily post "you completely mis-stated my position, if indeed you even bothered to read it", consider that if the other person isn't reading what you wrote, another post won't change matters. Instead, *IF* you think you can clarify what was misunderstood, try re-stating your position one more time, and after that let it go. Other readers will draw their own conclusions about who is making sense, if you've stated your position well. Don't keep arguing until others concede - all it takes is two such posters, and the argument will go on forever. Just, at a certain point... Let... It... Go.

When in doubt about introducing a tangent, consider instead starting a new blog entry or thread topic, and invite readers of the current thread to come discuss your tangent over there. Or, if the topic of the discussion doesn't appeal to you, or you think it is irrelevant until all other larger issues have been resolved - well, life is short! Just move on to a thread you consider more constructive. And injecting the same opinions with marginal relevance into thread after thread, whether it be about the manager, a coach, a highly paid player, a poorly performing player, the general manager, the owner, etc., is not acceptable posting behavior.
 
Posts by fans of other teams, done for the purpose of making derogatory remarks about the Twins or their fans, or excessively touting their own team, obviously will not be tolerated. Less obvious, perhaps, is that when a fan of another team takes part here in good faith, trolling of that person will not be tolerated either. Let's be good hosts to our visitors. And visitors, please remember that at the end of the day this is a Twins site and not a neutral baseball forum. Behave as you would if visiting another team's ballpark, and you'll be fine. Probably.

Referring to site moderation is not condoned, because it invites side discussions that steer away from the topic of the thread. If you have specific concerns about moderator actions, send a personal message to one of the moderators civilly instead, as we are more than willing to discuss this with you. Or if you wish to publicly discuss Twins Daily moderation and help us improve the site, feel free to create a thread in the "Questions About MinnCentric" forum and open a discussion. This policy is not an attempt to stifle conversation about moderation; its purpose is to improve baseball-related discussion and prevent thread-jacking.

We remind you to try to ignore what you find distasteful or, if you can't, report it. Please do not try to police offenders yourselves or respond to them publicly. Actions the moderators take in response to reports are sometimes not apparent to the readership at large, but we do take all reports seriously and do our best to take action in an appropriate manner considering all the variables of content, intent and poster history, and not just a single word here and there. In the end you may not agree with or like our actions, or think them 'fair.' At such a point, please, just move on.

Again, feel free to contact any of the moderators should you wish to have a private conversation.

[ashbury]

3. A minimal level of grammar and spell-checking is required.

No, we ain't no Grammar Nazis here. And nobody's going to hassle you about a tpyo (unless it's inadvertently fanny). But if it's not worth your time to do at least a proof-reading pass of what you're about to submit, maybe it's not worth your readers' time either. If it looks like it was typed on your phone keypad upside-down after one too many adult beverages, orwithoutspacingandparagraphbreaksresultinginawalloftext, or with SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS, or with too many abbreviations and overly obscure "text-speak", it stands a chance of being deleted by the moderators, lol;#omg;rofl@u.

[ashbury]

4. Avoid inappropriate language.

This includes swearing, ethnic slurs, lewdness, and crude terms for body parts, bodily functions, and physical acts. This also includes visuals such as avatars and linked images. Certain terms (you can probably guess which) are automatically removed by the posting software - censor-bypass attempts are grounds for moderator action. Please be mindful that comments relating to racial, cultural, religious, national, gender and sexual identity can be offensive, ditto locker room talk, even when there is no disrespectful intent. TD encourages humor, but please consider how someone who doesn’t know you might interpret your post. Overall, we don’t want content that the FCC wouldn’t approve for broadcast - keep it family-friendly.

[ashbury]

5. Do not copy entire stories from elsewhere on the internet.

Copyright law gives broad protection to content, and we want to respect that. Be particularly wary of posting more than very short excerpts from pay sites. The TD site software allows you to easily insert, into your post, a link to an article’s URL. If you're pulling a quote or an example to give people a taste of a story, or relaying a short Twins-specific note found in a long article about a broader topic, then it is likely “Fair Use” and it's fine to insert the words directly; indeed the author or organization may appreciate the publicity via the URL link. But if you're copying everything because you're too lazy to summarize yourself, then that's not fine.

 

In a similar spirit of protecting others' content, discussion of illegal streaming options or how to circumvent paywalls, etc. are not allowed on Twins Daily.

[ashbury]

6. Commercial spam will be deleted on sight and the poster will be banned.

We all know what spam is when we see it. The Bad Guys don't care one bit about the purpose of the site. Use the Report button to alert the moderators if you happen to see spam before they do.

 

Sometimes posts from legitimate TD members enter into a gray area. To be clear, cross-promotion of baseball blogs and so forth always has been strongly encouraged at TD. Just make sure your post contains content of interest to Twins followers, isn't purely commercial ("buy my book") unless authorized, and doesn't consist merely of "click this link to see my site". Here is a post from one of the site owners explaining more to a fellow blogger:
 

 

Welcome to the blogging community.

By all means, if you have a post that you think our community would enjoy, post it here. I think you're much more likely to get feedback on a specific topic than just a general "look at my blog" post. And maybe even better response if you only do so with a post that you're especially proud of.

I'd also encourage you, if you have a post you really like, to consider double-posting it on your blog here at TwinsDaily. If it's really good, we'll promote it to the front page, including any links back to your site that you include in the story. Thousands of people will see it on the front page and it might really help people find/bookmark your blog. You can find your blog here by clicking on "Blogs" and then "My Blog".

We want people to find you. And we want to serve our readers by helping them find great Twins content. Keep it up, and welcome.

On a totally separate topic, here is a writeup pertaining to a type of forum thread that differs greatly from the others.

Game Threads

We believe the daily game threads during the season should be a little more relaxed than the normal thread. Think of sitting in the left-field bleachers with a few friends and acquaintances - people have a tendency to just chat and crack jokes during boring games or down times, and that's okay - we want you to stick around, even if you really have nothing to say. Deep discussions and extended back-and-forths may get made fun of here. Civility is still the rule, but a little more is tolerated. Okay: short posts, off-topic conversation, PG-rated joking with one another. Not Okay: hurtful posts, locker-room talk, blatant rule violations, or being a grouch.

[ashbury]

A post from June 2013:

 

I'm often asked by people who have been banned or whose posts have been deleted "I just want to know where the line is." Or "I just want to know what the limits are." Here is the answer:

 

We are working in a very nebulous and dynamic environment. We are figuring out our policy for maintaining civil discussion as we go along. There are [several] moderators with different opinions. Every time each of those moderators checks in, they're in a different state of mind. And finally, we all have limits to the time we can donate to these forums.

 

So there is no line. There is no limit. There are a lot of them, and they're always changing and that's the way it has to be. So just stay the hell away from it.

 

And frankly, that shouldn't be so hard. In fact, I can objectively PROVE it isn't that hard. Here you go:

- We have 2757 users right now on Twins Daily.

- Every day, we have about 300 active posters.

- We keep needing to delete stuff or warn about 5 to 10 members.

 

When about 97% or our community can consistently stay away from the line, I'm confident that the other 3% can figure out a way to, too.

 

And if you are unfairly penalized - deal with it like a grown up. Re-do your deleted post in a more civil manner so you can still make the point. Sit out of the forum for three days (or seven days) and just read things. Maybe see how others stay away from the line. Or enjoy another site. Or do something else. You'll live.

 

Let me share one last thing. I've talked to several people who run national sites much bigger that TD and here's how they do things - they see a post that makes them think they probably don't want that guy on the board and they just block the IP address. They do not think twice about it. No deleted post. No warning. No temporary ban. This is common, because they just don't have the time (or, frankly, the incentive) to rehabilitate anyone who looks like a moron.

 

When they told me that a year ago, I was aghast. It seemed arbitrary and unfair. Now, with as much time as I find having to moderate or explain the process of moderation to others, I'm a lot more sympathetic. To be exceptionally candid, my life would be a lot easier with permanent bans on about seven members. And as stretched as we are right now with time, that might be enough reason. That might be the new line.

 

Again - this isn't that hard. Be civil. Leave your ego out of it. Don't try to "win". Stay away from the line.

[ashbury]

TD moderators sometimes invest considerable time composing messages to fellow site members. Here are a few collected over time, edited slightly into short essays, on the subject of contributing respectfully. They seemed worth sharing more widely.
 
1:
I wish you could just make your point without characterizing the other poster in the process.
 
2:

• Report,
• ignore,
• walk away,
• or respectfully rebut.

There are many people on here who will, intentionally or unintentionally, push your buttons. Above are your four options. I know you can 'take care of yourself' in such instances, but doing so creates the problem of 'unenjoyable' reading for others. So, refrain! Be the hero, and let it be.

 

 
3:
Worry about yourself, and less about other posters.
 
4:

It isn't constructive to argue about whether or not a TD poster's personal opinion trumps that of the Twins. This is an internet site where everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as they are respectful; people are well within their rights to have differing opinions. Arguing that someone's opinion doesn't matter because they aren't a member of the Twins front office is inherently disrespectful, and isn't a good place to go given that this board has only 1 confirmed member of the Twins front office posting here and this forum is open to the public.

5:

If you see yourself in one of these images, maybe just take a break and come back tomorrow.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

 

 

6:

This site is here to discuss baseball and we wouldn’t be here if there weren’t divergent opinions. Further, articles are written and topics chosen to provoke discussion. The writers know that some will agree, some disagree. Your post wasn’t about the topic but rather to mock other posters. That won’t fly here. Stick to Twitter or the STrib comments section if that’s what you want to do.

 

7:

Maybe you're an Overachiever? Want to go beyond the requirements of TD's Comment Policy, and become an elite rhetorical contributor? Have a look at this:

 

Rapoport’s Rules to Criticize Someone Constructively

 

The page provides this helpful summary: "You should attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly, and fairly that your target says, 'Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.' You should list any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement). You should mention anything you have learned from your target. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism."

 

I wonder how many of us could reach this lofty standard.

 

8:

Here is a restatement by a relationship counselor about one simple rule.

"The premise was simple, he said: Nothing you do or say to each other should drop below the level of simple respect. That was it."

 

9:

Q: Why is this site's Policy so long?

A: 1) It's not. At heart what we ask is, "post respectfully, and don't troll." 2) Tolstoy said in one of his novels, "happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." The parallel to unhappy posting habits is apt, and the variety of examples and re-phrasings of our policy reflects this.

[ashbury]

About Warning Points

 

The vast majority of posters never need be aware of the TD warning system. But in cases of violation of posting policy, site owners and moderators have the authority to issue warnings, which usually come with one or more points. Such warnings are delivered in an automated fashion via the Notifications system (accessed via an icon near the top of each page that will be highlighted if you have a notification pending), indicating the reason. Please note that a moderator might also choose to reach out to you informally via a PM; unless a warning point is mentioned, such a PM is informational only, and is merely a request to modify your behavior.

 

Warning points ordinarily are assessed one at a time, but flagrant violations could result in more. Each warning point expires (becomes no longer active) 120 days after being issued. The site staff can view everyone's warning record, but no other readers will see or know about yours.

 

The system is automated, so that when you reach a certain number of active points, your posting privileges are temporarily suspended, i.e. you are "banned". Do not expect a separate warning message that this has happened, or is on the verge of happening. If you can't post or send PM's, check your warning point total before asking for help.

 

Each time a warning is given, whether or not one or more new points are assessed:

• 3 active points results in a 24 hour ban. You can still send PM's.
• 4 active points results in a 72 hour ban. You can still send PM's.
• 5 active points results in a week-long ban. You cannot send PM's.
• 6 active points results in a month-long ban. You cannot send PM's.

Site staff also have the capability to make a ban permanent, if a poster demonstrates chronic indifference/hostility to site posting standards.