Twins won't add to payroll

[gunnarthor]

 

Looks like the Twins will probably have a payroll under 100m this year.  I imagine the money saved will not be used to increase payroll a few years from now when we could use it.

[Cory Engelhardt]

If they were to trade Santiago and Dozier (for example) they still would have a decent amount of money to sign Jason Castro and another veteran (Rajai Davis for example) while mostly going young otherwise. That wouldn't be a bad thing. And their payroll would be less than last year.

[Doomtints]

Fun.

[Vanimal46]

I'm going to be very disappointed if they don't go get a legitimate C this off-season. They already have $10+ million off the books from last year - with Plouffe gone, and not having to pay the rest of Jepsen and Fien's salaries.... 

[diehardtwinsfan]

well, they already have an offer out to Castro for the record... that was posted elsewhere.  Not sure where they need to add anyways. If anything, they need to make room for the kids, which tends to mean cutting payroll.

[alarp33]

 

I'm going to be very disappointed if they don't go get a legitimate C this off-season. They already have $10+ million off the books from last year - with Plouffe gone, and not having to pay the rest of Jepsen and Fien's salaries.... 

 

Is there a legitimate C available this off-season? I'm on board with attempting to sign Castro, but lets not get overboard with a doomsday scenario if they don't sign him.  

 

This FA class stinks and the Twins just won 59 games... adding a ton to payroll seems foolish

[TheLeviathan]

There are less than 10 guys in all of FA I'd want anyway.  This is good news, it means the new guys see this team for what it is.

[spinowner]

 I think (or, probably more accurately, hope) that the 2017 season will see this team's future core emerge. It's not time to spend big money in the FA market. Yet. 

[mazeville]

I could literally care less about payroll this year. This team lost 100 games. Adding some high priced veteran isn't going to suddenly turn them into a 100-win team and I honestly wish people would figure that out. 

 

Even the Yankees -- the Yankees! -- are trading away high-priced veterans for prospects.

 

The Twins need to develop a strong core of players who will be here for years. That's how you rebuild. I still believe they could have a quick turnaround with the right couple of moves, but in no way should they start throwing money at high-priced veterans just to appease the "We Gave You Guys A Stadium" crowd.

 

Once this team starts winning games, then they can add some free agents or make trades for veterans to put them over the top. But it has to start showing promise first. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Is there a legitimate C available this off-season? I'm on board with attempting to sign Castro, but lets not get overboard with a doomsday scenario if they don't sign him.  

 

This FA class stinks and the Twins just won 59 games... adding a ton to payroll seems foolish

 

Castro, Wieters, or Ramos appear to be it for appealing C options... Castro is the best defensively. This team can afford a premium contract this off-season without future payroll issues... 
 

Bottom line is I'd rather spend $15 million towards a player or 2 instead of the Pohlad's pocketing an extra $15 million. 

[nicksaviking]

I agree with most of the sentiment above, the free agent class it pretty poor, I'd not like most of them on this team and nearly all that are desirable, likely do not reciprocate that feeling with the 100 loss Twins.

 

Only way I'd really want payroll to increase is if the Twins somehow swung a trade or two for some young guys who have already been extended or would need to by the Twins.

[alarp33]

 

Castro, Wieters, or Ramos appear to be it for appealing C options... Castro is the best defensively. This team can afford a premium contract this off-season without future payroll issues... 
 

Bottom line is I'd rather spend $15 million towards a player or 2 instead of the Pohlad's pocketing an extra $15 million. 

 

I was all about trying to sign Ramos this offseason, and then he tore his ACL.  Castro and Wieters are better than what the Twins currently have, but I'm not sure I'd break the bank for either. If they can sign Castro to a reasonable 3-4 year deal I would be happy, fwiw.   

 

We agree on the Pohlad's, I'm certainly not advocating for them to line their pockets more.  But I'm trying to be a realist. This FA class stinks, the team stinks.  Let's root for the best possible trades for Dozier and Ervin and start looking ahead to the 2018 FA class (Lucroy??)

[Doomtints]

The problem here as I see it is that the FO should be thinking a lot less about "keeping spending at the same level" and a lot more about the path to make the team competitive.  

 

I see a lot of people saying, "OO, awesome.  I don't see anyone they could pick up anyway."  But that's not the point.  The quote isn't, "They explored the free agent market and likely won't make a move at this time." Instead, the quote is, "They are keeping the spending at the same level."  Those are two completely different statements and different approaches.  The second one, if true, sounds a hell of a lot like what we have been hearing from the Twins over the years (and not much like the Indians and Rangers, mind you).  

 

Now, as far as quotes go, the above looks to be about as reputable as a box of kittens would be as far as predicting what the Twins are going to do.  We may as well start asking the Packers front office about roster moves the Vikings are going to do.  

[TheLeviathan]

You're reading way too far into it.  The quote is that a rival GM says it's well known behind the scenes we are rebuilding so Berardino inferred that meant the team wasn't looking to go out and add aggressively.

 

The only real takeaway here is that we're treating this like a rebuild.  As we should.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I could literally care less about payroll this year. This team lost 100 games. Adding some high priced veteran isn't going to suddenly turn them into a 100-win team and I honestly wish people would figure that out. 

 

Even the Yankees -- the Yankees! -- are trading away high-priced veterans for prospects.

 

The Twins need to develop a strong core of players who will be here for years. That's how you rebuild. I still believe they could have a quick turnaround with the right couple of moves, but in no way should they start throwing money at high-priced veterans just to appease the "We Gave You Guys A Stadium" crowd.

 

Once this team starts winning games, then they can add some free agents or make trades for veterans to put them over the top. But it has to start showing promise first. 

The thing about the Yankees, Cubs, and Dodgers...is that trading away established talent for prospects should be something that is automatically done whenever they are not in the hunt! It does not signal a long rebuild and can be refreshing for them, as they can just go and spend that money in the next offseason or two on other established FA's. Also, it is probably better for teams to be trading for established prospects by trading your older talent, as the picks they lose from signing new FA's in the offseason have more risk anyway.

 

Hell, that was always my #1 strategy in OOTPB, and I am "low number";)

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I do feel the Twins should focus on overspending to ensure they get Castro, or some other defensive framing specialist. I think the worth is even more in rebuilding teams because it can raise the confidence of young pitchers, and raise the value slightly of pitchers you might want to float in trades. Speeds up the curve a bit I would think, so the value is there. Don't think we get him.

 

Just worried that I have not heard too many good things about our catchers framing abilities in our system. I am fine having all glove guys at catcher, SS, and CF...right now, I guess that is what we currently have in CF. I do think Falvey sees the value in have a good SS...look what happened once Clevland got a good glove there!

 

*I am scared that autocorrect goes to "flakey" for Falvey.

[Mike Sixel]

Pretty tired of the "we shouldn't try to get better yet" crowd.....They should, imo, absolutely try hard for defensive catcher like Castro. They should try to sign a RP or two they can flip, or cut. They should maybe (if they trade ESan) sign a FA SP they can flip or cut.

 

None of that blocks a young guy, unless you think they should start with Garver and Murphy at catcher this year.

 

Every year you don't add talent is a year you don't get better. NO PLACE in this post am I implying they should be worried about the playoffs this year, or that they can spend their way to competitiveness, or any  other straw man.....

[Vanimal46]

 

Pretty tired of the "we shouldn't try to get better yet" crowd.....They should, imo, absolutely try hard for defensive catcher like Castro. They should try to sign a RP or two they can flip, or cut. They should maybe (if they trade ESan) sign a FA SP they can flip or cut.

 

None of that blocks a young guy, unless you think they should start with Garver and Murphy at catcher this year.

 

Every year you don't add talent is a year you don't get better. NO PLACE in this post am I implying they should be worried about the playoffs this year, or that they can spend their way to competitiveness, or any  other straw man.....

Preach it.... It IS possible to be a rebuilding team and spend some money to acquire players that play positions your organization is weak in.... 

[laloesch]

 

 

Looks like the Twins will probably have a payroll under 100m this year.  I imagine the money saved will not be used to increase payroll a few years from now when we could use it.

 

I'd take this tweet with a grain of salt.  Doesn't mean anything to me.  Just one guys opinion and supposition. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Preach it.... It IS possible to be a rebuilding team and spend some money to acquire players that play positions your organization is weak in.... 

 

It's also possible that we sign players and don't "add payroll".  Just saying.

[Mr. Brooks]

Pretty tired of the "we shouldn't try to get better yet" crowd.....They should, imo, absolutely try hard for defensive catcher like Castro. They should try to sign a RP or two they can flip, or cut. They should maybe (if they trade ESan) sign a FA SP they can flip or cut.

 

None of that blocks a young guy, unless you think they should start with Garver and Murphy at catcher this year.

 

Every year you don't add talent is a year you don't get better. NO PLACE in this post am I implying they should be worried about the playoffs this year, or that they can spend their way to competitiveness, or any other straw man.....

I think you have to be careful with any multi year deal though.

I'm all for the 3 or 4 years that it will take to get Castro, but that's because I don't think Garver or Murphy project as above average starters.

You might sign a guy not intending to block someone, but you can't predict future performance.

What I mean is, you might sign a guy to a 3 or 4 year deal because he's not blocking anyone yet, and he's a good enough player to flip once he is blocking someone.

But you could end up with a dud who is healthy enough to play, but not good enough to trade.

As long as the new FO is open to dumping multi year guys when they don't work out, I'm all for it, but Ryan never was, and that is what I'd be worried about when it comes to multi year deals.

[nicksaviking]

 

Pretty tired of the "we shouldn't try to get better yet" crowd.....They should, imo, absolutely try hard for defensive catcher like Castro. They should try to sign a RP or two they can flip, or cut. They should maybe (if they trade ESan) sign a FA SP they can flip or cut.

 

None of that blocks a young guy, unless you think they should start with Garver and Murphy at catcher this year.

 

Every year you don't add talent is a year you don't get better. NO PLACE in this post am I implying they should be worried about the playoffs this year, or that they can spend their way to competitiveness, or any  other straw man.....

 

I get it, but I just don't see where you spend money this free agent season. The board seems pretty agreeable to signing Castro, but that's not really adding payroll and the Twins clearly agree considering they sound like a top contender if not the top contender to sign him AND they allegedly have said they aren't going to add payroll.

[Mike Sixel]

I am not arguing for adding payroll....I'm arguing for adding more players that are either young, or can be flipped. Like other rebuilding teams do.....

[DaveW]

This is gonna be a fun year

[jctwins]

 

There are less than 10 guys in all of FA I'd want anyway.  This is good news, it means the new guys see this team for what it is.

 

 

This this this.

 

Why spend money on anyone at the MLB level when your developmental system needs to be rebuilt entirely? Doing otherwise is the same snake oil that Terry Ryan sold to the fan base for five years now.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This this this.

 

Why spend money on anyone at the MLB level when your developmental system needs to be rebuilt entirely? Doing otherwise is the same snake oil that Terry Ryan sold to the fan base for five years now.

 

To be clear, I'm pursuing those 10 guys for the major league level.  I'm pursuing them because we have open jobs (SP, RP, C, and maybe OF) where we can offer playing time for a guy to rebuild his value.

 

Then we trade them.  But I'm not looking to add payroll because we had 103 losses and we have to do some token spending to appease the masses.  The "why" and the "who" are extremely important here.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This this this.

 

Why spend money on anyone at the MLB level when your developmental system needs to be rebuilt entirely? Doing otherwise is the same snake oil that Terry Ryan sold to the fan base for five years now.

 

You can fix the minors, and sign FAs both......those are not either or.

[Mr. Brooks]

You can fix the minors, and sign FAs both......those are not either or.

The problem, and I'm just as open to flipping as you, is that in such a weak FA class, the guys that would typically get 1 or 2 year contacts, or even ST invites, are going to get 3+ year deals.

That makes finding good flip candidates tougher.

[Kwak]

"Weak free agent class" = Red Herring

 

The Twins will not attempt to sign the whole class--only one to at the very most three players. My guess is only one (probability = 60%). Signing two (probability = 25%), signing 3 (probability = 5%), and none at all probability  =10%.

 

To be brief: 59 win teams have lots of needs--both short and long-term. It appears that Catcher is a target for a free agent signing (success probability isn't all that high sadly). Relief pitcher signing? Plenty of room there for improvement (one guy most likely). A possible third player? That guy could be anywhere--even a second catcher!

[nicksaviking]

 

The problem, and I'm just as open to flipping as you, is that in such a weak FA class, the guys that would typically get 1 or 2 year contacts, or even ST invites, are going to get 3+ year deals.
That makes finding good flip candidates tougher.

 

That was my initial thought, but then Andrew Cashner went and signed a 1 year deal.

 

I'm not getting wound up about any signings or non-signings this year, but that's the kind of deal I would have been interested in, if he performs just OK he can be flipped midseason.

 

Cashner might be kind of an isolated case though, there aren't many bounceback types looking for a 1 year deal with his upside. Doug Fister and his 86 MPH fastball maybe? I threw up a little typing that though, so I guess I'd probably prefer not.