Eddie Rosario Demoted to Rochester

[alarp33]

 

They did this with Rosario.  It clearly wasn't working.  They did this with Buxton, and it didn't work.  I suspect the kids will get another shot, but I do think there's merit in recognizing when said kid isn't earning that job and demoting them accordingly.  The season is lost, and the guys you want to step up aren't doing that.  I don't have a problem with filler like Grossman for the time being.  You'll see them again at some point, hopefully that's at a point where they've earned it.

 

Buxton started 15 games I believe.  I don't think that's exactly what he meant by... "gain experience, let them take their lumps".  

 

 

[USAFChief]

He's had a terribly slow start at the start of the year. I don't know what specific, narrow time frame you picked out to pull that OPS number, but you're doing gymnastics to polish a turd Dave.

 

Mastro can manage good defense and a .580 OPS. We should've gone into the season with at least one player in the OF that we could count on as a defensive and offensive contributor. Hicks would not count towards that either.

We know Mastro can manage a .580 OPS.

 

What he can't manage is the .721 Aaron Hicks put up last year in 390 PAs as a 25 year old.

 

With good defense, a strong arm, and decent speed.

 

Dave's not the one doing gymnastics.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

They did this with Rosario.  It clearly wasn't working.  They did this with Buxton, and it didn't work.  I suspect the kids will get another shot, but I do think there's merit in recognizing when said kid isn't earning that job and demoting them accordingly.  The season is lost, and the guys you want to step up aren't doing that.  I don't have a problem with filler like Grossman for the time being.  You'll see them again at some point, hopefully that's at a point where they've earned it.

Yeah. Rosario wasn't just scuffling, he has major flaws that prevent him from ever being a consistent source of production. Many of us saw this coming going into the season so we shouldn't be surprised it happened.

 

Rosario is rocking an isoD of .019 on the season. That's ridiculous and something he can't just "work through" at the MLB level.

[HitInAPinch]

Well, yeah.  In the Strib articles, they delayed the biggest news of all:  Rosario was YANKED OUT IN THE 7TH INNING!  That should should have been the #1 item. It speaks volumes as to the status of this team.

 

and I'm usually a pretty positive guy....

[TheLeviathan]

 

We know Mastro can manage a .580 OPS.

What he can't manage is the .721 Aaron Hicks put up last year in 390 PAs as a 25 year old.

With good defense, a strong arm, and decent speed.

Dave's not the one doing gymnastics.

 

What is Hicks' OPS right now?  580?  

 

Right, so explain to me again how he'd have helped this team?

[Riverbrian]

 

If this is our baseball reality, I wish FSN would broadcast Rochester Red Wing games instead of the Twins.

 

I read this and laughed out loud. 

 

Then I thought about it

 

 

If the Twins are on Channel 623 and the Red Wings are on 624 at the same time?

 

Uff Da... I can't believe that I can't stand here and guarantee my Twins main club loyalty at this moment. 

 

Me? 

 

All this time I have invested in this product over decades

 

Me?

 

 

 

 

[DaveW]

 

What is Hicks' OPS right now?  580?  

 

Right, so explain to me again how he'd have helped this team?

.826 OPS this month so far. Which is better than everyone on the team not named Park. So I am guessing he would have helped at least a tiny bit, no?

[TheLeviathan]

 

.826 OPS this month so far. Which is better than everyone on the team not named Park. So I am guessing he would have helped at least a tiny bit, no?

 

Baseball Ref has that at .726 - where are you getting this number?  And this month is about 40 or so at-bats, so I'm not even sure it would have made a win's difference.

 

Sign someone actually good.  Not Mr. 580 OPS savior, that wasn't the key.

[Riverbrian]

 

I was listening to the Tigers radio guys on XM.  When Rosario threw home early in the game, they said that was a really terrible play- absolutely no chance to get the guy, put the hitter on second when there was no reason to do that- they said that stuff like that must just drive Molitor crazy.  I don't think he was sent down for taking the extra base.  I do think pulling him from the game at that time was unnecessary.

 

Rosario was absolutely horrible yesterday. I don't blame Molitor for being upset and benching him at all. 

 

I blame the organization for putting itself in the position of being forced to wait this long to make this move because they didn't seek out at least one professional veteran OF with talent to improve the club. after a somewhat hopeful 2015. 

 

So when Rosario has a game like he did yesterday it doesn't look like he was sent down in a blind rage.  

 

[Mike Sixel]

Well........there is clearly something wrong with their development process. These players look woefully unprepared to be MLB players. Not a little, a lot. A huge amount lot. Simple mental mistakes. Completely over matched.

 

This is a minor league system that is supposed to be loaded with talent. Yet, look at that MLB roster, 5 years into the not a rebuild......

 

Every time I am critical of how they handle the minor league players, it is because the system does not appear to work. It isn't every individual decision that is bad or good......but the number of decisions that are just not working out.

[beckmt]

Rosario needed to go down, he was not helping the club at this time. 

How Molitor handled this tells me he needs to go.  Stunts like this will destroy the confidence of young players and the wish to play for him as the manager.  Time to give a better people person a shot(Dougie anyone).

[Mike Sixel]

Many people on this site said they should sign a legit veteran OF, because they didn't have anyone with any certainty out there. Not one player. 

 

The Cubs signed one......he might be the best player in the NL so far this year.......

[Vanimal46]

 

Many people on this site said they should sign a legit veteran OF, because they didn't have anyone with any certainty out there. Not one player. 

 

The Cubs signed one......he might be the best player in the NL so far this year.......

Yep. Dexter Fowler has been a key cog to the Cubs, and my fantasy baseball team. You, me, and several others over the off-season where basically pleading for the team to sign a legit veteran OF and bullpen arm(s). This is the 2nd year in a row that the organization has completely misjudged the readiness of prospects in the system. 

[HitInAPinch]

 

Btw, if you had any doubt left as to why decisions like this are made, Molitor yesterday said he doesn't consider the season lost.sadly he was not clear as to when he would get to that point.

 

On the flip side:  what would you expect him to say?  "OK everyone, we're sucking now and we're gonna suck the rest of the year.  Everyone, exit the stadium and come back next year."        

[Riverbrian]

 

Many people on this site said they should sign a legit veteran OF, because they didn't have anyone with any certainty out there. Not one player. 

 

The Cubs signed one......he might be the best player in the NL so far this year.......

 

The Cubs signed two OF's actually and possibly a third if you include Zobrist and they had prospects coming out of their ears like the Twins... Perhaps more so. 

 

And they play 3B superstar Kris Bryant in the OF Frequently. 

 

The Cubs set out to improve their club after an encouraging 2015 and realized that they couldn't rely on youth as much. 

 

And despite being over run with youth and the acquisition of capable veterans to crowd the roster and creating that good problem to have. Joe Maddon still manages to get Soler and Baez at bats while Molitor can't find a place for Polanco to play. 

 

The similarities are numerous and yet I think it's safe to say that the Cubs and Twins took exactly opposite approaches. 

[Riverbrian]

 

 This is the 2nd year in a row that the organization has completely misjudged the readiness of prospects in the system. 

 

I'd say 4th year in a row but I'm willing to go with yours and declare that 2 is bad enough. 

[Riverbrian]

 

On the flip side:  what would you expect him to say?  "OK everyone, we're sucking now and we're gonna suck the rest of the year.  Everyone, exit the stadium and come back next year."      

 

Yeah... I agree... I think the manager needs to keep fighting the best he knows how until the schedule runs out. 

 

This is up to Terry Ryan to tell Paul in no uncertain terms.

 

"Paul... Try to win the games but we need to find out who will be able to help us next year at the same time"... Play Polanco while he is up with the big club".  

[alarp33]

 

Yeah... I agree... I think the manager needs to keep fighting the best he knows how until the schedule runs out. 

 

This is up to Terry Ryan to tell Paul in no uncertain terms.

 

"Paul... Try to win the games but we need to find out who will be able to help us next year at the same time"... Play Polanco while he is up with the big club".  

 

Right - my problem with the quote wasn't that he said they weren't giving up and the season isn't over... it was that he followed up with a; why would i play young guys, its not a time for them to learn... implying those young guys aren't capable of helping this team.  

 

If I was drawing up the best possible lineup for say, the month of June on, to try and win games... I'd probably have Kepler, Polanco, Buxton, Berrios... why be dismissive of these guys, if he hasn't noticed the vets on this team haven't been very successful

[Kwak]

 

Hicks had a .886 OPs last year agains LHP and a 97 OPS+ overall. Which isn't bad for at all for a CF. Especially a CF that is very good defensively. In fact that was pretty much average 97 ops+ at the dish.

Stop acting like hicks was drew Butera, he wasn't.

"Stop acting like Hicks was Murphy, he isn't!"

[Riverbrian]

 

Right - my problem with the quote wasn't that he said they weren't giving up and the season isn't over... it was that he followed up with a; why would i play young guys, its not a time for them to learn... implying those young guys aren't capable of helping this team.  

 

If I was drawing up the best possible lineup for say, the month of June on, to try and win games... I'd probably have Kepler, Polanco, Buxton, Berrios... why be dismissive of these guys, if he hasn't noticed the vets on this team haven't been very successful

 

I'd go with Polanco for sure. I've seen nothing but good AB's from him in his limited chances and that play he made at SS was the best I've seen from a SS in a Twins uniform in quite some time. He certainly isn't earning bench time. 

 

Berrios... It is certainly worthy of debate but I would have given him some more starts at the very least because he wasn't as far off as his stats suggest according to my eyeballs. And..And... this team needs a top end starter and won't sign one. Give him the same amount of rope that you are currently giving Brian Dozier at least.  

 

I'm Ok with Buxton being down... 50% strikeout rate was way too much and let's bring him back if he keeps hitting like he is in Rochester but I'd give him a little more time just so it ain't so yo-yo like.  

 

Kepler... I simply didn't see enough of him to form an opinion one way or another. 

[Twinsbar107]

 

This isn't about him leapfrogging buxton and Kepler. They have decided that those two are legitimate top prospects and they need more time in the minors. Grossman is being promoted because he is a warm body.

i think the answer to your signature is no. 

[alarp33]

 

I'd go with Polanco for sure. I've seen nothing but good AB's from him in his limited chances and that play he made at SS was the best I've seen from a SS in a Twins uniform in quite some time. He certainly isn't earning bench time. 

 

Berrios... It is certainly worthy of debate but I would have given him some more starts at the very least because he wasn't as far off as his stats suggest according to my eyeballs. And..And... this team needs a top end starter and won't sign one. Give him the same amount of rope that you are currently giving Brian Dozier at least.  

 

I'm Ok with Buxton being down... 50% strikeout rate was way too much and let's bring him back if he keeps hitting like he is in Rochester but I'd give him a little more time just so it ain't so yo-yo like.  

 

Kepler... I simply didn't see enough of him to form an opinion one way or another. 

 

I said beginning of June... stretch that to June 15th if you want to give those guys a few more weeks.  

 

Remember to consider the alternatives...

 

Buxton in lineup replacing Danny Santana who has been the worst player by WAR in baseball since 2015 started.  

 

Kepler in lineup every day instead of Arcia or Plouffe (in my "trying to win every game" lineup, Sano plays 3b vs righties, Arcia RF and Kepler LF... Arcia sits vs lefties, Sano in RF)... Plouffe vs righties and Arcia vs lefties on the bench takes out like a .630ops hitter.  

 

Berrios in rotation instead of Pat Dean... May would also be in this rotation instead of Hughes

 

These aren't good players being replaced.... 

 

 

[Rosterman]

Let's get the band back together! Jordan Schafer can pitch and play centerfield. In the Dodgers system and striking out many a guy in relief. Lew Ford is playing for the Long Island Ducks and also coaching. Could fulfill both functions for the Twins. 

 

Man, Neil Cotts, Craig Breslow, Brian Duensing are all floating around out there and Caleb Thielbar is about to start the season at St. Paul. He could moonlight with the Twins perhaps! 

 

And if we still need outfield help, Jason Repko is still available!

[Dr. Evil]

Who the hell is Robbie Grossman???? Why do we need to bring someone in from outside the organization?

[Riverbrian]

 

I said beginning of June... stretch that to June 15th if you want to give those guys a few more weeks.  

 

Remember to consider the alternatives...

 

Buxton in lineup replacing Danny Santana who has been the worst player by WAR in baseball since 2015 started.  

 

Kepler in lineup every day instead of Arcia or Plouffe (in my "trying to win every game" lineup, Sano plays 3b vs righties, Arcia RF and Kepler LF... Arcia sits vs lefties, Sano in RF)... Plouffe vs righties and Arcia vs lefties on the bench takes out like a .630ops hitter.  

 

Berrios in rotation instead of Pat Dean... May would also be in this rotation instead of Hughes

 

These aren't good players being replaced.... 

 

I'm not a WAR guy and miles from any conversion to a WAR guy but I agree that Santana shouldn't be our starting CF. I'd like him to remain on the team as utility slash pinch runner and I would move him around enough that he'd get some AB's. 

 

I'm not as horrified at Sano in RF as others are but I strongly feel that Sano should play 3B more often than he has.

 

However... A side note... If I was Trevor Plouffe... forget Molitor, Ryan or any of us. If I was Trevor Plouffe... I'd be begging for the chance to play OF or any other position. Plouffe has been an average 3B for his entire career and at some point down the road he will be fighting for work. He will have a better chance finding a job later and prolonging his career if he increased his position options and therefore increasing the odds that he will match up with more teams possible needs. He isn't talented enough to type cast himself as a 3B only in my opinion. 

 

I'd love to go along with your Kepler idea but I simply haven't seen enough of him.

 

I do think the youth movement needs to start right now but it needs to start slowly with a simple change of mindset. That mindset change is simple... If I Terry Ryan... call up a youthful player with promise such as Polanco... You Paul Molitor... will make that MLB experience as productive for the future as possible until he is sent back down to the minors... By Me... Terry Ryan. 

[kab21]

It is funny that this offseason there was so much concern about where Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Arcia were going to play since there are only 3 OF spots and the Twins had questionably filled the DH spot with Park. Now everyone is questioning why a legitimate starting OF'er wasn't brought in.

This board would have blown sky high if a decent OF'er would have been brought in and blocked Buxton or Rosario. This board hated Torii for filling that role last year.

[alarp33]

 

I'm not a WAR guy and miles from any conversion to a WAR guy but I agree that Santana shouldn't be our starting CF. I'd like him to remain on the team as utility slash pinch runner and I would move him around enough that he'd get some AB's. 

 

 

To just remove WAR from the equation, this is Danny Santana's batting line since 2015 began;  .221/.244/.299

 

And I think most of us can agree Buxton would be quite the upgrade defensively.  

 

I can't see an argument for this team winning games now (since Molitor said the season isn't over) with Santana playing every day.  Waiting a few weeks for Buxton is fine, but when he is up, he should be in the lineup every single day

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

It is funny that this offseason there was so much concern about where Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Arcia were going to play since there are only 3 OF spots and the Twins had questionably filled the DH spot with Park. Now everyone is questioning why a legitimate starting OF'er wasn't brought in.

This board would have blown sky high if a decent OF'er would have been brought in and blocked Buxton or Rosario. This board hated Torii for filling that role last year.

 

Well you totally misread the problem.  The problem was tossing Sano in the OF because they thought it was going to work.

 

Sign Fowler and trade Plouffe.  Problem solved and this team is far better off.  And - yes - some of us were saying exactly that.  Plouffe's value be damned - just move the log jam.

 

[DaveW]

 

It is funny that this offseason there was so much concern about where Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Arcia were going to play since there are only 3 OF spots and the Twins had questionably filled the DH spot with Park. Now everyone is questioning why a legitimate starting OF'er wasn't brought in.

This board would have blown sky high if a decent OF'er would have been brought in and blocked Buxton or Rosario. This board hated Torii for filling that role last year.

Hunter wasn't a decent OF'er last year, he was literally the 2nd worst hitting corner OF in all of baseball. That isn't decent... that is poor.

[Riverbrian]

 

To just remove WAR from the equation, this is Danny Santana's batting line since 2015 began;  .221/.244/.299

 

And I think most of us can agree Buxton would be quite the upgrade defensively.  

 

I can't see an argument for this team winning games now (since Molitor said the season isn't over) with Santana playing every day.  Waiting a few weeks for Buxton is fine, but when he is up, he should be in the lineup every single day

 

Yeah I wouldn't start Santana at this point in time if I didn't have to but I'd still hold out hope that he could turn things around.

 

Some of the same logic I use to declare that Dozier is no longer an everyday player at this moment but I'd like to keep him around in case he figures it out again.