ewen21

If I did that I apologize.... I have read your posts and you seem like a good guy. The point I wanted to make is that Buxton's defense isn't countering his putrid offense by a longshot. The sum of his game right now isn't even an average player, even with the defense. He has a negative WAR which pretty much squares up with the eye test, at least in my opinion. For some reason I was concerned about Buxton coming into the season. He is still a bundle of nerves. He started off exactly how I hoped he wouldn't.

Wanna know how many defensive runs saved Buxton has this year? ONE. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=200&type=1&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d Just from the eye test, I didn't feel he was making as big an impact as he was last year. I go check it...lo and behold the numbers back it up. I am jogging through my memory trying to remember his truly great catches this year and the truth is that don't come up a whole lot. There is a lot of sensationalism when it comes to his defense. He can cover lots of ground, but he is becoming his own worst enemy.

Sorry, no. The numbers just do not support all the talk about how his marvelous defense saves this team boatloads of runs. He made about as big a contribution as one can make in the outfield last year with his glove. However, he might go (and has gone) weeks without making an upper-echelon catch. Last year for Buxton was a rather uncommon season for an outfielder to have defensively posting an amazing 24 defensive runs saved. We can brag on that and say he was the best defender in all of baseball, but the fact is his defensive wizardry amounted to 24 runs saved according to that metric. Mike Trout was probably the best offensive player with 181 runs created (according to wRC+). Allow that to sink in for a moment and then please acknowledge the difference. Still not convinced offense is a much bigger part of the game than defense at the major league level? The spread between Buxton's 24 defensive runs saved and the worst qualifying CF (Denard Span at -27) is 51 runs. The spread between Trout's 181 offensive runs created and the worst qualifier (Rougned Odor at 61) is 120 runs. As far as Buxton's bat goes, we had reason to feel better going into this season after how he closed out last year. However, I cannot say with any confidence that he CAN hit. What does that even mean? He hit last year for about 200 at bats. Does that sample offer more proof than the 800 other at bats he has had as a major leaguer? That counts only as much as any other consecutive 200 at bats someone can punch up. Miguel Dilone hit .341 over a full season in 1980, but couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat of the rest of his career. Do we say "he can hit" just on the strength of that? I am going to try to tone it down with the Buxton talk for a while. He is a very frustrating player to watch right now. I don't want to hear about the value his glove brings today. It's been so blown up for so long that he is starting to think he is Superman in the outfield. I don't see no S on his chest. Sorry. He literally had no chance with that ball last night. He was almost like a dog chasing a car on that one. It was cringe-worthy, in my opinion. I am almost ready to say send him to Rochester for a while and make him DH exclusively for the first 10 games.

That's all well and good, but I don't know too many others who would base EVERYTHING off "wRC+" Never mind that Ramirez beats him in every category, but for OBP and that is only due to walks.

I didn't say I was advocating for him and I was not talking about defense. I speaking strictly of his hitting. You know Ramirez is a better hitter so we are good now

i am not advocating for Hanley, but if you want to look back at his Boston numbers alone and stack them up against Grossman's career feel free to do that. Then also understand that Ramirez was the better hitter not only this year, but for the last four years

John, I was not talking about HOFers.. Did you honestly think I believe there are that many players in HOF? I have been there many times. I live a couple of hours away from there. I didn;t think I needed to explain that "many thousands" referred to mediocre hitters that didn't get a whiff of the HOF or even an all star team.

Amen. THis is now his fourth season, he is zeroing in on 1,000 at bats and he has a .681 OPS. Isn't it about time for people to speak freely about his substandard bat without having to worry about people clapping back on them? It is nice that Hunter, Roswon and his peers are hopeful. They are only going to accentuate the positive and all we ever hear about is his speed and his quest to make diving catches. How about a more well-rounded game? How about being a little smarter and more attentive when it comes to running into walls? I watched some videos of Hunter bashing into walls. Hunter has/had a much bigger upper body than Buxton. He also seemed to have much better awareness, whereas Buxton seems blind to the wall and he wears this as a badge on honor. It could be his ticket to a short career if he doesn't learn how to make catches without knocking himself unconscious. Part of the job is staying on the field and I wonder if he will be able to do that, let alone hit like an average/to slightly above average major league outfielder. One thing about defense vs. offense. No way does defense approach offense in terms of it's impact in the game. Would you rather have the best hitter in the game or the best defensive player in the game? Give me Babe Ruth over Ozzie Smith 100 times out of a 100, thank you very much., According records compiled by baseballalmanac.com the average number of putouts a CF makes a game on average is 2.5. Not sure how many catches Buxton makes a year that no other CF can make? Can we maybe assume ten? In then you would need to look at them to see if they actually saved runs. I think people imagine that each one of those catches are like a 3 run homer. Too much has been made about his defense to the point where it starts to go overboard. The fact is, there are very small zones on the field where Buxton can make catch no one else can and balls don't get hit there all that often. Entire weeks pass without him making a catch only he can make or only the top 5 CFs can make. During that time he can have as many as 35 plate appearances. I have heard friends say "he can hit .100 and still be worth it" and "just play him everyday no matter how bad he hits" Do standards not exist for him? I am sorry, but that is not good for a baseball team. He has to do his fair share with the bat. Defense can make an impact for sure, but to believe defense is going to make up for a guy with ridiculously terrible OPS is poppycock. I am tired of hearing it, and quite frankly, these kinds of articles are getting old.

Two names out of the many thousands that didn't. In the case of Smith, LONGEVITY was a big part of his entry into the HOF. If he played 12 years rather than 19 I sincerely doubt he'd have made it.

Byron Buxton is fast.

If wasn't the hyped up, Baseball America #1 prospect, second pick in the first round, "five tool player" the pundits claimed he was he would be in Rochester.

Huskey was looking for a chalk line to fall into

I read his quote a few times. It actually made me think a little deeper. In the video where Hunter interviews him he is asked the same question. He was not under duress and he probably knew the question was coming. He also mentioned that famous Jim Edmonds catch and how he really wants to make catches like that. In the interviews I have seen with Hunter and MLB programs he talks only about defense. The only time he mentions offense is when he talks about not taking slumps onto the field. This is all really nice, but two things about that: 1. He could end up to be Aaron Rowand 2.0, beat up before his time 2. He needs to embrace the language of hitting and start talking about it a little more. It sure as heck couldn't hurt him. Thrylos has his take. I have mine. You have yours. And the world is good.

WHy is that a bad thing? It's a theory. You say it is OK until a person who also "claims to know" what goes on between his ears comes to a different conclusion. THat is fine. Then we discuss it civilly and present evidence. I am offering my opinion based only off reading, listening, watching. It took a couple of years for me to get there on this. There is a difference between where I am coming from and being a "hater". I am not a hater., And just so you know, I am not going to have a problem with someone offering a differing opinion so long as they aren't snarky or condescending. Even then I will try to reach out with a PM in attempt to prevent problems on the board. I happen to think it's healthy to have discussions like this. Buxton started off the last three years horribly. He talked about being nervous last year and the year before. This year Paul tried to "assure him" that he was not a bad hitter. I don't think it is off base to wonder about where he stands as far as the mental part of hitting goes. Lots of people were sure he "figured it out" after last year. It would appear that was an assumption (or wishful thinking) at this point. Eventually he is going to need to figure this out and it just might go deeper than mechanics. I am not going to write a dissertation on mechanics. I will leave that to the staff writers here. I am not good with graphics, ect… I appreciate those articles a whole lot. However, to assume mechanics is the only possible reason really is closed-minded thinking, in my opinion. An entire field is dedicated to this kind of thing. It is called sports psychology and there most certainly is a psychology to the game. I don't think it is a mere coincidence (or can be explained away by "small sample size") that Buxton is 1-27 vs the Yankees with 17Ks. He looks and acts very uptight in the box against them. I literally read everything there is to read about the Twins, for better or worse. I have read direct quotes from Buxton citing his own "anxiousness" to the point where it is considerable with him compared to so many other young players I have seen come up with the Twins over the years. I am not pulling this out of the thin air or pretending to know something. I am reading what he is saying and watching him. If someone doesn't agree with me then OK. I took the time to do some searches and in 15 minutes I came up with a number of quotes on his "nervousness" in the box LeVelle last year with a quote from Molitor: Buxton is going to be a power-speed combo guy, I have no doubt of that. But the Twins have to help him settle down, relax and be a little more selective at the plate. "We're trying to get him to just settle in," Molitor said. http://www.startribune.com/twins-postgame-thoughts-on-polanco-buxton-and-the-royals/418580463/ He was a little anxious, trying to see the ball and battle with two strikes. They got him to chase a couple times,” Molitor said http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/professional/story/2015/may/05/sizzling-starlookouts-center-fielder-byrbuxtr/302426/ "He stopped pressing and is not worrying about every swing or every at-bat," Mientkiewicz said. Buxton prefers his speed on defense -- "I like taking base hits away from anybody," he said http://lacrossetribune.com/sports/local/pro/shipley-no-need-to-bury-twins-buxton-yet/article_2914ec8d-7264-527b-93d6-bdb10be0cf0f.html “I think I let the game speed up on me a little bit, which causes me to chase more pitches out of the zone. I just told myself to slow down,” he explained. “It’s tough,” Buxton said. “It’s very tough. That’s why I’ve got these teammates behind my back to pick me up, but it’s definitely tough starting off the way I do, and then you try to battle and figure things out. ... I’m just too jumpy, too anxious to want to get a hit. I need to slow the game back down and let it come back to me.” https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/MLB/2018/05/21/Byron-Buxton-hopes-to-get-going-as-Twins-host-Tigers/9411526915237/ "Just tried to get a feel of where he was at and I tried to affirm him about his ability to hit," Molitor said. "I think he knows it. He knows when he puts too much pressure on himself and tries to do too much and overthinks his at-bats." With regards to what Thrylos said, yeah.....he made sense to me. He was not under duress here in a sit down with Torii and he was asked that same question. What do I read into it? I don't know, other than he seems to like talking more about his defense. He explicitly stated it more than once and this time in a very comfortable setting. IN fact, I would not be shocked if he already saw the questions before TOrii asked. Maybe, just MAYBE Thrylos is onto something. Maybe not....but to shut him down completely and tell him he can't think like that? Do we really need to do that? I guess the mods can control that, but I don't encourage that. Another video..... Sitting down with Torii and Trout again, and not under duress, both were asked about a weakness.... and Buxton answers his throwing arm? He LOVES talking about the circus catches, too. Buxton even mentions "shyness" and overcoming that. I like that he admits it, but I sure hope that someday he isn't hampered by being "jumpy" in the box What is this all about? It is just a sample things to show that Buxton really does pride himself on his defense. He is also battles through shyness and nervousness and that shows up in his hitting. He can rely on his athleticism in the field, but hitting is a science and a psychology. He is having trouble with it for several reasons. Part of it is his struggle with mechanics, but no one can tell me that a decent chunk of it CAN'T be mental. That would be one heck of an assumption, imo. I hope you don't mind that I tried to explain where I am coming from and why I think concern for Buxton is warranted. HE has explicitly stated that he is "pressing" "shy" "jumpy" "nervous" "overthinking" THat kind of mindset and inner turmoil effects mechanics. Mechanics are tough to execute as it is. If you are stepping into the box in a panicked state your mechanics will not be as they should be. Rhythm, timing, focus, body awareness....all of those things are messed up if you step in the box all choked up.

I was ready to say.....That's a cheap shot! ....then I read the article

Unfair logic would be whatever thought process you used to accuse him of attacking Buxton personally. I saw it as "he needs to concentrate more on hitting than making circus catches". He can make a circus catch once every ten games, but he takes 25 to 30 at bats a week. As far as my favorite family member goes, I have no favorite. Simple answer. Just as it should have been for Buxton. How about this: "We won the game. Any way I can help is a good thing" And if they press him he could say: "Doesn't matter, we win" I do think Buxton needs to get the mental part of the game down. HIs mindset seems to be somewhat of a problem. Is that a bad thing to say?

I wouldn't think twice about the comment, but Thrylos made me think about it. I can see what he is getting at and that doesn't mean I support the comments. I don't think what he said is nonsense, but I am not required to defend it. I just think characterizing what he said as a "personal attack" is a bit much. The only reason I said the home run would be a better answer was because that isn't a strength of his. Notice also I followed that statement up with ………."but whatever. Personally, I don't see Buxton's comment as a big deal"

See, I don't know if that is a personal shot at all. Buxton himself said he would be more satisfied with making a game saving catch than a game winning homer. I guess, like me, Thrylos wonders, what would be the difference so long as the team wins? That SHOULD be what any player says, in my opinion. Buxton gave his preference. Certainly, Buxton is a much better fielder than he is hitter. I would actually think that hitting a home run would be the better answer for him, but whatever. Personally, I don't see Buxton's comment as a big deal, but I can see what Thrylos is saying. He never said Buxton "doesn't care". He questioned the rationale behind Buxton's answer. That's all. I don't read anything mean-spirited in his post.

OK so now what? Does Nick get punished!

Lighten up? Maybe you should follow your own advice. This is professional sports where men play for pay. Buxton and Dozier are both playing well below expectations. If you asked either of them they would tell you as much. As far as leaders go? How can Buxton be expected to lead with his level of performance? And for a guy who says, "You aren't there. You don't know" on one hand, on the other you boldly proclaim "Dozier is a leader" Oh is he? Is he still in 2018??? His leadership cred has taken a huge hit if you ask me based not only off performance, but off things he has said. He clearly was not happy about not getting an extension over the winter and talked about being excited for free agency. He's also fondly reminisced about both Gardy and Terry Ryan. Not exactly relevant to anything a leader wants to accomplish here since most of the roster has turned over already. No one has to be in the clubhouse to have an opinion about this team. MOst all of us watch this daily and some of us follow this team more than we care to admit. I hate to tell you, but not everything is going to be gumdrops and lollipops, especially when you are talking about a team that has 19-23. Nobody gets hurt here, so please..... There were no cheap shots in that article.

I hate when I hear that, too

Now you did it

He's playing like it's some throwaway game up in Rochester!

THat was not missed on me and who really knows how long Joe is going to take? FOr all we know right now this is the end for him

He made it clear Sano might not provide help to the lineup, so the rationale was already explained. As disappointed as I am in the guy he has the potential to start hitting home runs. There isn't anything in the system that actually has hit at the major league level. THat is basically the point and the problem. There are not any answers in our system for this struggling offense.