Doomtints

I think people are misreading Buxton again. The Twins and the rest of us keep doing that with this kid. His SLG might look nice, but it's due to his speed. His 9HR to end the season probably won't happen in a single month again for the rest of his career. His OBP might not look so nice, but that's because he's still a bit lost. As his OBP rises, so will his SLG. Be careful to not read that the wrong way. He's the fastest runner in baseball, not a power bat. Molitor putting him in a power spot in the lineup is more proof that Molitor is unqualified, just as keeping Dozier in the leadoff spot for so long has proved it.

It's a small list really. If they stay healthy If the pitchers can regain their control If they play solid defense If they can hit Right now the goal should be for them to simply rise to the level of mediocrity. If they finish within shouting distance of .500 this season will be successful.

Honestly Santiago could go either direction. The deciding factor on Santiago will be how the defense performs behind him. It's difficult to imagine the Twins having a good or elite defense this year. Betting against Santiago is the safer choice.

You must be living in a bubble because that's all Twins fans talked about when he was first signed.

Thing Sure, but consider that things went "better than expected" two years ago and such luck was short lived. Talent > magic.

It's all right. When we lose passion, all is lost.

A few people lost hair over nothing!

FLORIMON!

The point is, people are advertising pitch framing as being worth much more than 4 games a year.

So we are to believe now that managers barely affect games but pitch framers getting an extra strike a game are "moneyball coups"?

I would think that the way to prove k/9 and k/bb are effective would be an associated low ERA....

But should you do the median innings pitched, or should you do innings pitched for #3-#5 starters? Aces are aces in either league.

The DH difference in most years is about a third of a run per game. This is not enough to support the idea of NL pitchers "struggling" in the AL. This also has the fatal logic flaw of not considering that AL pitchers face the DH all the time. The question is why are NL pitchers worse than AL pitchers when they move to the AL? Nothing you wrote supports that, all you are doing is explaining DH. The truth of it is that NL pitchers, particularly bottom-of-the-order ones, are not in the habit of pacing themselves to be able to face batters late in games. They get pulled earlier than their AL counterparts.

The reason NL pitchers "struggle" in the AL is because in the NL they get pulled earlier. NL pitchers do not have to pace themselves as much. Were you expecting Vogelsong, or any #5 pitcher, to be pitching into the 6th-8th innings?

I agree with you. Some people are losing it in this thread over nothing but semantics. No one ever said Vogelsong is an ideal pitching candidate, not one person has defended him as being great. We would all love a better option. But he IS depth, he IS a backup plan if the young guys continue to not be ready. Some people are saying, hey, just pick up Dean or Pino or Albers or whoever again, forgetting that those guys are actually worse than Vogelsong and those are not backup plans. Those are panic moves. The Twins are being smart to have a guy who will be warmed up and familiar who can bridge any gaps that might be there when the season starts. Vogelsong's is "replacement level" but the other options being thrown out there are worse than he is. Ryan never bothered to sign short-term bridge players so perhaps some Twins fans are not accustomed to the idea. If Vogelsong can keep the Twins competitive in just 40% of his starts, he is a typical #5 pitcher and his ERA looks like he could do that. Dean, Pino, Albers, etc., won't give the team that. Putting those three out there are automatic losses. So calm down everybody. IF Vogelsong starts the year, it's a temporary solution to *help* the long term solutions by giving them some space in the minors. And this is still an *if* -- he might get cut and blood pressures would have been raised for nothing.

ROSARIO MVP 17

"Peripherals" are not a thing. You have to define what you are basing your opinion on.

Hold on. So there is no difference between a blowout meltdown by a starting pitcher in every start and a typical #5 starter's ERA?

You literally see no difference between Pat Dean's 6.28 ERA and Vogelsong's 4.79 ERA as a starter last year? I mean, sure, toss Dean back out there if you want to lose 103 games again until the rookies are ready. They're sure to perform well when they arrive to a team already eliminated by May!

But Viola flashed utter brilliance for stretches of those seasons too.

Well, yes. If those 3 young guys you just called out all start in the minors, which Vogelsong's presence would allow, they won't be in the majors. This is such a bizarre point it must be trolling on your part. But yes -- the idea is it's Vogelsong & giving young guys time to get warmed up in the minors v. no Vogelsong and someone being ready to play in the majors. The Twins are extremely smart to have an insurance policy for the very real possibility that none of them are ready on opening day, but at least one of them will probably be ready in another 6-8 weeks.

You could try by not responding to a side comment that was someone's attempt to change the conversation into something else.....

You can disagree with my point but flat out ignoring anyone said it is annoying. Vogelsong buys Berrios a couple of weeks in the minors if he is still unusable when the season starts which is a very real possibility. No one ever said Vogelsong is a long term option. So, for the last time, that's what his presence offers the 2017 Twins. Disagree with this if you want -- that's great -- but don't pretend no one is giving reasons for his presence.

Duffey was worse than the V and he does not have the excuse of being 40. Besides, Duffey profiles to be a reliever. Makes sense to put the guy where he can succeed, no?

Keeping a veteran/mentor around means giving up on a rebuild? Are the young guys supposed to learn everything in a vacuum?