chopper0080

It was the move that had to be made. That is the business of sports. Hopefully the Twins focus on building a staff to work with and develop young talent. That seems to be the direction that they are going.

I would wait. I don't see the win for the team in paying him more for his prime years while also acquiring more of his less prime years. I would prefer to negotiate an extension closer to the age of 30, more leverage.

My honest question is this, and it is partially related to Hicks and Santana and Arcia. Is this team in any way the place to foster and develop young talent? Hicks has underachieved. Santana doesn't have a position. Arcia has decided to go with his own hitting approach. Even if you buy the magic prospect beans, what has this team done with young prospects that makes you feel like they will be successful in developing them? I just don't see it.

Hell, I could be successful with this plan. Be awful enough to acquire a bunch of top 10 picks, and wallow in losses under the premise that the ship will magically come in "next year". This year was a trainwreck, just like the previous three. Unless something changes, next year will be the same. Players will get hurt. Other will exceed expectations despite the circumstances. Some will fall short. In the end, we will struggle with timely hitting, consistent pitching, and situational baseball. We will lose a bunch of games with the promise that things will be better in 2016. Rinse and repeat.

This seems short-sighted to me, but par for the course for the Twins. IMO, I can find serviceable CFs easier than SSs long term. Honestly, tough for me to be shocked by any decision from the franchise that will likely keep a manager who has lost 90+ games, four seasons in a row.

If Gardy returns, please put me down as the first to say it will be 5 90+ loss seasons in a row. With so many succssful teams in baseball, you would think the Twins could find one manager to poach who would be able to at least lead us to 90 loss seasons just like Gardy. I think this board gives him both too much credit, and too little accountability for a manager of a team who has lost 90+ games, 4 seasons in a row. Someone said it isn't smart to make change for change sake, I'm pretty sure we would be making a change because we are one of the worst teams in baseball for the 4 year in a row.

It is funny how people can maintain that there isn't a losing culture, or that the coaching staff/front office are not to be held accountable for this mess. Why should Gardy and his staff get fired? Because they couldn't figure out how to make Hardy, Liriano, and CARLOS FREAKING GOMEZ work for this team. I'm pretty sure that as a leader, your job is to motivate and foster the development of the individuals on your team. When you start to fail to do so is the time the team moves on. That ship has sailed. Why should Ryan get fired? How about holding onto a coach who is driving off talent, and not developing it. How about signing broke down players like Mike Pelfrey. How about not dealing players at the peak of their value, and instead waiting for their value to decrease so you get nothing for them. How about using the cost of free agency as a reason to not bring in outside talent. I'm sorry, but this is professional sports in the era of free agency, and revenue sharing. Local media contracts. The experience of the park. In a time where youth interest is at an all time low for baseball, the plan is for patience? News flash, the five year development plan days are over. Done. It is a washed up excuse that is only bought by fans who are living in the past. St. Louis. San Francisco. Baltimore. Tampa. KC. Cleveland. These are competitive teams. The excuses for a lack of money, and a long term plan are over. The Twins are being beat at their own game. Payroll is no longer an excuse. It isn't the payroll. It isn't the market. It isn't the farm system. The Twins are losing 90 games for the 4th season in a row because almost every other team in baseball is doing it better. Better free agents. Better talent development. Better coaching. Better roster development and mix. Better strategy. The time for excuses is over. You either change, or you stay in this spiral. End of story.

The problem is that we have several rosters spots WORSE than Suzuki and Plouffe which is a problem. Yes, good teams have players like Plouffe or Suzuki on their roster, but they are the weak links and they are not counted on to win games. You can't expect to win when you are counting them to be consistent while your young, sporadic players like Vargas, Santana, and Arcia are going thru the ups and downs to breakinginto the big leagues. You can't have holes at SP, holes in the OF, holes at SS, and then say that you are counting on Suzuki and Plouffe with expectation that is is a winning formula. We need to add significant talent at some sort of mix of OF, SP, SS,3B, and C. If there is an upgrade over Suzuki at C, we need to take a hard look at it. If there is an upgrade available at 3B, we need to look into it. SP is the same. OF is the same. Now, not every position is going to have those opportunities in an offseason, but the ones that are, need to be acquired.

That fact that they weren't IS the problem, and pretty much the reason we are a 90 loss team.

Here is what I am comfortable with going into the 2015 season...Not saying they are going to be great or not regress, but I am either comfortable with their production or I am comfortable letting them develop IN the starting lineup. C-Not 1B-Mauer/Vargas 2B-Dozier SS-Santana (or Not if teams puts him in the OF) 3B-Not LF-Not CF-Not RF-Arcia DH-Vargas SP1-Not SP2-Hughes SP3-Not SP4-Gibson SP5-Not (though we can pencil in Nolasco because Twins won't eat his contract) CP-Perkins I count 7 positions that I am not comfortable with heading into 2015, and need to be upgraded in order to improve this team. One spot the Twins will eat because they will not cut Nolasco despite being terrible. They will hope and pray on that one. So that leaves 6 starting positions that need to be filled with better talent in order to compete for a title. I don't believe that will happen, I believe this team is comfortable trotting out players like Kurt Suzuki and Trevor Plouffe while they wait on their prospect pipe dream, despite that resulting in 90 loss seasons year after year.

Just to put my thoughts on this matter... What I know is that on our roster, only Mauer, Dozier, Hughes, and Perkins have produced at a high enough level over multiple recent years to be penciled in for a starting spot. I'm am not counting other bullpen arms. 1B-Mauer 2B-Dozier 2SP-Hughes CL-Perkins What I know is that on our roster, only Arcia, Vargas, Santana, Gibson, and May have produced enough to deserve a role on the team, but have the talent to earn a starting spot. However, there is a high possibility of initial regression in 2015. DH-Arcia w/ RF potential DH-Vargas w/ 1B platoon potential Util-Santana w/ CF/SS potential 5SP-Gibson w/ 3SP potential RP-May w/ 3SP potential I know we are committed financially to Nolasco, and he has shown to be a 5SP at best. Potential as a 4SP. I know both Suzuki and Pinto could be significantly upgraded at C. I know that SS is a hole, but the team has not commited to using Santana to plug that hole, and instead relied on mediocre talent to do so. I know that Plouffe is totally upgradable at 3B. I know that Santana has been our best OF in 2014 but may be the teams SS in 2015. I know that Arcia has excellent power potential but is not a great fielder. What I know leaves us with holes at C, 3B, SS/CF (whichever Santana doesn't play), LF, 1SP, and 3SP. Those are the holes that need to be filled. What do I know about filling those holes? I know that counting on higher level prospects to come in and contribute right away has had mized results. Gibson, Hicks, May and Arcia have struggled while Vargas and Santana have not. That leads me to believe that counting on Hicks, Sano, Buxton, Meyer, Berrios, and Rosario to contribute in 2015 is pretty foolish. Milone is a wild card, but the A's preferred a bunch of other SPs over him. MIght be an indicator to his overall talent level. I know that the Twins have revenue to add top FAs or take on large contracts in a trade. I know it is more likely that the Twins will be able to trade for a large salary player than sign one as a FA. In the end, we have lots of work to do.

Do one thing exceptionally well first, THEN learn to do everything else as well. You have to have something to build upon before you can become well-rounded. Let em learn. Let em grow.

He is seeing hitters don't chase in the show. Now he knows what he needs to work on. I would rather him have this start this year rather than next year. Failure is just an opportunity for future success.

Agreed. Hitting is down folks, in terms of both power and average. If I can get another athletic OF with gap power and average in Target field, I take it to the bank everyday. Santana in LF or CF really doesn't matter if you believe Arcia and Buxton will both have 20+ HR potential. Also, let's not count on Buxton making the jump next year. Personally, I would keep Santana in CF or LF until Buxton is up and then figure it out. Santana, Buxton and Arcia isn't terrible in terms of athleticism, power and average. Hicks as a 4th makes it even better and allows you to deal a player if you need to.

re: Santana I don't really care if they keep in the OF or keep him at SS, but what I care about is that they have a plan. If he is going to be playing SS next year, get him there over the remainder of this year. Similarly, if he is going to be an outfielder next year, keep him in the outfield. Have a plan and work it.

It isn't a ton of money, but the idea of Suzuki as our starting catcher over the next two years is less than inspiring. Essentially Pinto is a AAA guy for playing time or our new manager will go with Pinto and we will be wasting 6 mil per year on Suzuki. I don't see the win for the Twins with this extension.

Ok...after forgeting about Nolasco and forgetting the compensatory guidelines, I am putting myself in timeout.

Cespedes for Lester was a really smart move by the A's. Cespedes was not going to be re-signed, they are a serious World Series contender, and they will get a 1st round draft pick for Lester if he leaves. They still have good depth in the farm system and they still have movable pieces if they want to reload.

I sure did. Nolasco, Hughes, Gibson, Meyer, May and MIllone is not bad in terms of depth and stuff. Meyer and May will struggle and that is to be expected. Hell, maybe Nolasco returns to form and the Twins are able to unload him at the deadline next year.

So, in terms of 2015, Hughes, Gibson, Meyers, May and Millone is not a bad start. Probably need to add another starter into the mix because chances are someone will get injured or struggle. That isn't being negative, it is just that injuries happen. Add some outfielders who can run beside Arcia and maybe we don't lose 90. Santana and Dozier will hopefully man the middle. Also, I am excited to see how Vargas does though I expect he will struggle as Arcia has. Now we just need to get a ham sandwich for Suzuki, Willingham and Correia and I will be happy.

Classic Twins. Be terrified of losing a 32 year old catcher.

It is like the Twins don't realize they are a 90 loss team.

However, just because you despise it doesn't mean it is not the best move for the future of the team. Let me put it this way...Glen Perkins will be 33 years old prior to the 2016 season which is our closest CHANCE of competing. Would you be willing to offer a 33 year old closer in 2016 a 3 year deal worth 19.3 million? Maybe. Are you willing to guarantee that money now when the contract is guaranteed and could affect your ability to add talent to your team when they are more likely to be competitive? You shouldn't.

"one of us" "positive thoughts" "positive vibes" and you proceed to talk about jersey sales, attendence, and selling tickets. Come on. None of these are driving forces on the moves made by winning teams. Loyalty and sentimentality have no business in professional sports when there are salary caps and bottom lines involved. Perkins has been a really good relief pitcher for us and I like him as a Twin. However, none of those are reasons to hold onto him while our is floundering for a fourth straight season.

You bought it with your own statement. The majority of fans do not go to Twins games to see Glen Perkins. Fact. You may be a fan, but you are not purchasing a ticket in the hope of your 90 loss Twins being in a position where he can impact a game. Why should I go see the Twins? Because it is summer, tickets are cheap because they suck and there isn't a ton to do in Minnesota as far as sporting events during the summer.