chopper0080

Meh, MLB managers are overrated. All they really need to do is get the players all going in the same direction. The defensive shifts, bullpen management, and lineup setting are all kinda overblown. You obviously have to have a high baseball accumen, but in terms of affecting the game, baseball managers do very little. It is an execution based sport which does not allow for many unique systems or schemes which result in a competitive advantage. Make sure you interview all the candidates, and pick the one who you believe can best motivate your team thru the grind that is the baseball season.

This was I had read, and thought as well. It may be different, but I have never read any publication or article by the Twins to make me believe they thought they were trading for a #3 SP at best at that time. If the Twins thought they were trading for an elite RP who had the potential to be a SP, then was a bad trade. Why trade a valuable asset like Span for that type of player when you don't even have to?

So, what is your point? Meyer wasn't a draft pick at the time. I believe he was already in AA. If you can't figure out close to what a player is going to be at that point, you have some issues. Again, if you thought he was a #2 SP and he turned out to be a #5 SP, it happens. But if you are mistaking a guy in AA for a #2 SP when he ends up being a RP...you need to go.

A couple thoughts. The first thing that struck me is that when discussing a lack of leadership, and any potential leaders, Joe Mauer's name is not even brought up. While I don't believe every top player needs to be a leader on the team, but it sure would be nice if our highest paid player was one. Not shocking, but still a pretty glaring omission. The 2nd thing is Ryan even discussing punting 2015. Come one man. At least pretend your are interested in trying to contend. 3rd...that is a lot of money spent on a guy you need to fix in terms of Nolasco. Just saying. Other's have called out the "Twins Way" nonsense. Payroll talk is always a joke. I don't know what Pelfrey has on this staff, but the fact that he is being mentioned in future plans is funny to me.

PLayers getting close to contract years can be available, even if they aren't advertised. The Marlins prefer to avoid large, long term financial commitments. that is known. That Nats have starting pitching, Gonzalez may be available due to positional depth and overall budget. Teams won't "shop" these players, but most guys can be had in certain situations. These players have been named because their situations dictate that they may be available even if they aren't being shopped. No one is saying "trade for Strasburg" because their isn't a reason for the Nats to get off of him.

Look up awful scouting. Folks act like like their isn't a group of professional people who are paid to scout and identify talent for the Twins. Mistaking a #5 SP for a #2 SP is acceptable and understandable. When your scouting department can't identify the differences between SP and RP at the AA level, that is being bad at your job. Your investor losing money investing in Apple is understandable. Your investor losing the same amount of money investing in penny stocks is not. It is him being bad at his job.

I said I liked the move, reread my post. I also said that results in trades matter. Trading Span for top of the rotation SP prospect was the right move. The Twins identified Meyer as that type of player. If he doesn't turn into a SP at all, then it is a problem. Either a scouting issue or a coaching issue depending on why he fails to be the player they traded for him to be.

You have been very clear in offering an alternative path of which the Twins could have followed rather than the wait and see approach of Ryan. IMO, the alternative viewpoint, which is the one which posted the question originally, is reaching at this point. I did not have an alternative plan of action, but I think yours is very good. Signing more international free agents would have been a much better plan, and would have given this team more assets to wrk with.

Quality, young players are generally not "available". You have to be proactive in searching for them, and make solid offers, comprised of good players to get them. If you prefer 30 year old guys entering the end of their prime, wait for free agency to start. I'm sure the next Nolasco will be available.

2009 Cardinals Chris Carpenter Kyle Lohse Joel Pinero Todd Wellmeyer Adam Wainwright...only one from their farm system Pujols Molina Schumaker Thurston Ryan Duncan Rasmus Ludwick (they traded for Matt Holliday) So their pitchiing staff was made up from players from outside the organization, and their hitting was made up of guys from inside.) 2010 pitching staff had some changes Jaime Garcia was brought up Cards acquired Jake Westbrook, Brad Penny, Jeff Suppan) Holliday took on full time role felipe Lopez was brought in John Jay and David Freese moved into more of a full time role) 2011 Kyle McClellan took on a more prominent role Acquired Edwin Jackson Cards brought in Lance Berkman Ryan Theriot added Furcal mid season 2012 Lance Lynn takes on a more prominent role in the staff Lohse & Westbrook still starters from outside the organization Joe Kelly gets some starts Added Beltran so 3 of the top 5 Cardinals in At Bats are from outside of the organization (Holliday, Beltran, Furcal) 2013 Cardinals replace Lohse with Shelby Miller Kelly takes a larger role Matt Carpenter takes a starting role as does Allen Craig Matt Adams and Pete Kozma get some at bats 2014 Justin Masterson & John Lackey brought in from outside Michael Wacha takes on a larger role, gets hurt, comes back Jhonny Peralta brought in Kolton Wong takes a larger role Oscar Tavares gets some at bats So, for the past several years the Cardinals have used free agency to bring in veteran pieces to take on prominent roles for their team. Prospects have been brought up in supplemental roles initially, but then are rewarded with expanded roles in following seasons. Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, Lance Lynn, Michael Wacha, Shelby Miller, Jon Jay and Kolton Wong have all followed this path. So yeah, if you just want to cherry pick where the Cardinals current roster is at, yes, most players are from their system. But what you fail to mention is how those players were added in over time, and in smaller roles initially. The Cards were a veteran team, and have implemented their farm system as the years have progressed. Nice try though.

Like the Cardinals re-signing Matt Holliday? The Cardinals do a very good job of keeping a mix of veteran players and young players. They don't put themselves in positions where their young players come up, and are depended upon to carry the team. We should take note of that.

So, the best way to emulate the Cardinals is by building a competitive, veteran MLB team, and then incorporating your farm system as players prove they are ready, carving out roles for them, and not depending on them to succeed right away.

So my comments were is response to this... You could make the case that we should take a large step forward this next year, or at the very minimum start to really show promise. Gibson is in year 3. May, Santana, and Vargas are in year 2. And our top four prospects (at least 4 of our top 5) could all crack the big league roster (Sano, Buxton, Meyer, and Berrios). If we play all our best cards and don't show promise of a contending team in 2 years, then I agree we are at the beginning. *** So, two years from now would be the end of the 2016 season. I guess Dec 2011 - Dec 2016 would be 5 years not 6.

I love this consideration. For all of my issues with the Twins roster, I can say that Dozier, Mauer, Plouffe, Santana, Arcia, Vargas, Hughes, Gibson, and Perkins are players that can be parts in a contending team. However, you need to add key pieces, AND THEN add in your prospects when they are forcing their way up. Build a roster that allows May to be a 5th starter. That allows Hicks to be a defensive OF. That allows Santana to grow into a position whichever it may be. That allows Buxton to be promoted into the back of the batting lineup rather than the top. Hell, you don't even need to add a superstar, just more quality players. What would the team look like with Elvis Andrus at SS and Santana in CF until Buxton pushes him to one of the corners? How about a starting staff with Mat Latos, Phil Hughes, Gibson, Vargas and May? This roster has potential, but unless the Twins make some moves, potential is all it will ever be.

and that would be fair if Meyer was a projected #2 who turns out to be a #4. But you are trading a proven MLB CF BY CHOICE to improve your SP depth. This wasn't an expiring contract issue where the team was handcuffed and took what they could get. This was an attempt to fill a very specific need by identifying potential top of the rotation players, and trading a poven commodity for one. The Twins could have kept Span, and just traded Revere for May. Mistaking a RP for a #2 SP is a HUGE gap to miss by. Should be a firable offense but the director would have double checked it so it becomes a dept issue.

So if Stanton was 32 years old, I would agree. However, trading for talent ENTERING it's prime is one of the smartest moves you can make. Stanton has 6 years until he turns 30. If that isn't a big enough window to contend, you aren't doing it right. You trade for Stanton now. You have a star to build around. You have Dozier who is now improved. You have a batter to support/hide Mauer's decline. Plouffe now is a key defensive pressen who hits some, rather than a poor hitting 3B with a decent glove. You support your staff of developing pitchers. You then have a winning environment to bring Buxton, Berrios, Goodrum, and Polanco into. You aren't heaping pressure onto these young players as they are adjusting to the major leagues. Trading for an elite young MLB player is the best move this franchise could make. Why does St. Louis always seem to have success when they bring in prospects? It is because their team is built to support those prospects rather than depend on those prospects. This is where the Twins fail.

So, let me get this right...are people really saying that making the trade is what is important, regardless of the outcome? That is a pretty sad state of expectations IMO. Here is my take on it. Trading a MLB proven outfielder for a starting pitching prospect is a good move. Trading that outfielder for a prospect who ends up being a relief pitcher is a bad move. If your GM isn't making moves to fill holes on the roster by dealing from positions of strength, that is a GM problem. I believe most would agree that Ryan made a good move trading a MLB CF for a SP prospect. However, if your scouting dept can't identify prospects who can stick as SPs, then you have a scouting problem. This isn't the draft. You have data vs potential ML talent to look at and evaluate. Meyer failing to develop into a SP because he has injury issues is one thing...Meyer failing because he has control issues which you knew about when you were scouting him, is a scouting or coaching issue. Meyer failing because he has control issues and also only has two pitches, all of which you knew about is a scouting issue. Results matter.

Who? Meyer, Mays, and who? Who have we acquired that is an asset for this team going forward? I have Hughes. Some will argue for Nolasco though I would argue that he seems like money wasted.

So if we aren't making progress in 6 seasons, we are at the beginning of the rebuild process? I think you are mistaken. If we aren't contending 6 years into a rebuilding process, we have failed in the rebuilding process. I already argue that we have failed to do so already, but I understand some are more tolerant of losing than I am.

OK, just because you have a reason to do something doesn't make it a smart move. The question always remains, is the easy move or is it the right move? Are you doing it to win games or are you doing it to appease fans? I agree that the Twins re-signed Mauer to appease fans, but that doesn't make it a smart move. Where are the fans now that we have him, and are one of the worst teams in baseball?

There are so many flaws in this statement. It is never the wrong time to add premier MLB talent. It is always a good idea to trade potential for actual production. When it comes to pay the bills, take the cash, not the lottery tickets.

We will disagree on this.

and I offered $209mil...Yes, they made an offer which was lower than other offers that were on the table. The Twins could have done the same, but instead they offered a stupid contract and are paying for it. But let's not have that discussion here. In the end, the Cardinals make moves that pan out, and the Twins currently do not. A perfect example of the current differences between the organizations is the Cardinals handling of prospects vs the Twins.

Do you really believe Stanton would turn down money that would make him the highest paid player in baseball? Trade Arcia, Meyer, Sano, and another mid range prospect. Our farm system is still stocked. We are better defensively in the outfield. We still have a legitimate power threat. I'm not saying this is likely, but I am saying if I am looking to trade prospects for a MLB player, I am looking for a whale not a minnow. In all fairness, make this trade, sign Alex Rios, Emilio Bonafacio, and a 11 mil SP. Maybe some bullpen pieces. You can make the playoffs with that roster, and you aren't dependant on Buxton, Berrios, and others to carry your team.

Mine is easy. At what point do you use your farm system depth to acquire young, proven MLB players?