stringer bell

While Brooks and Ozzie are both the standards by which their respective defensive positions are measured, to me they are totally different players. Brooks was the epitome of the surehanded defender, he wasn't a fast runner, but he displayed unmatched instincts and a great first step. Ozzie had incredible range and made a scrapbook full of "impossible" plays. Neither player made the Hall for their offense, but they were more than respectable. Brooks had decent power and Ozzie hit more homers than Denny Hocking. BTW, Mike Schmidt was the best defender of his era at third, not on a par with Robinson, but extremely good.

Starting lineup (vs. RH pitcher): Presley (CF) Dozier (2B) Mauer (1B) Willingham (LF) Arcia (RF) Plouffe (3B) Kubel (DH) Suzuki © Florimon (SS) vs. LH Starter (alternate catcher): Mastroianni (CF) Dozier (2B) Mauer (1B) Willingham (LF) Plouffe (DH) Arcia (RF) Bartlett (SS) Escobar (3B) Fryer © Everybody plays! Just like junior high!

Pitchers: (12) Nolasco, Correia, Pelfrey, Hughes, Diamond, Worley, Swarzak, Duensing, Thielbar, Burton, Fien, Perkins. Brief comment: I included six starters (one stashed in bullpen) and assumed Deduno starts the season on the DL.

There is currently a thread for the starting lineup going and some of the conversation is about who fills out the roster. I am starting a separate thread about the entire 25-man roster. We all know that whoever goes north with the club will get some chance to play and if they make good they will get more chances, so IMHO it is far more important who makes the club than exactly who is a "starter" when the season opens. In the starting lineup thread, there seems to be pretty good agreement on who starts. All nine spots are far from locked down, of course. I will assume the Twins go with 12 pitchers and 13 position players. I think that will be the way they start the season. Position players first, rationale to follow: Position players: Catcher: (2) Suzuki, Fryer Infield: (6) Mauer, Dozier, Florimon, Plouffe, Escobar, Bartlett Outfield/DH: (5) Willingham, Presley, Arcia, Mastroianni, Kubel When I originally put together a 25-man roster, I penciled in Pinto as the starter at catcher. Recent rumblings tell me that Suzuki will be doing a lot of catching at least to start the season and that the Twins would like Pinto to get a little more AAA time. It also helps that he has options and that a month in Rochester will give the Twins another year of his services. Another catching/25th man candidate is Chris Herrmann. He hits like a backup catcher, but does play other positions (and may try more this spring). If the Twins bring three catchers north, I'm sure the third guy will be Herrmann. I don't think they'll start the year that way, though. Infield: Unless the Twins make another free agent signing or trade, I think the starters and principal backup are set. I added Bartlett late because (1) he has a .795 lifetime OPS vs. left handed pitching (2) he is a veteran who can be a bench player without hurting his performance or damaging his future. (3) he might qualify as the best option to be a RH pinch hitter late in games. Bartlett could get some starts at short against lefties and with two backup infielders, Gardy might use Plouffe as a DH especially against left handers. Colabello figures here, too, but I just can't see him making the team since he really isn't a good fielder and his swing was exploited in the majors last year. Outfield: I originally had Parmelee making the club and still hope that he finds a way, but with a second backup infielder, there isn't room for him unless he outhits Kubel or the Twins roll the dice without a backup center fielder again. I can't see Hicks making the club out of spring training, but I hope he is back by June and moves Presley/Mastro into a backup role. I included Mastroianni as the backup outfielder because he can play all three positions, has base stealing speed and hits right handed, making him a potential platoon partner for Presley.

Really good discussion here. I fall in the no-Jack camp and think the arguments against Morris are pretty compelling. While a deeper look at stats advanced Blyleven's case, the same deeper look at Jack's numbers didn't improve his chances. Morris was a very good pitcher for a long time and had the classic mythic moment in the '91 series, but neither the dominance and counting numbers are there. As the Pig mentioned, it isn't right to compare his situation to Puckett's. Kirby was megapopular inside and outside of clubhouses and Morris was more akin to AJ. That Morris got as close as he did to election is kind of a last gasp of traditionalists IMHO.

Still not on the Drew bandwagon. The Bartlett note has gotten me thinking to the point that perhaps both Bartlett and Escobar go north as utility infielders. IIRC, Bartlett had pretty good numbers against left handers and after last year's struggles RH for Florimon, he could get at-bats against LH starting pitching. Bartlett being a veteran could also (perhaps) pinch-hit against a tough lefty late in a game and they still would have Escobar. Bringing two utility infielders north would be it for both Colabello or Parmelee, unless Kubel is dreadful.

I agree with your prediction but will bet that Presley is the leadoff hitter with everyone else moving down one spot. There is balance there FWIW, going L-R thru the first eight with a switch hitter in the #9 spot.

Pretty much what I predicted a month ago. I am going to change my starting catcher to Suzuki because ...I am used to disappointment. 1. Presley (CF) 2. Dozier (2B) 3. Mauer (1B) 4. Willingham (LF) 5. Arcia (RF) 6. Plouffe (3B) 7. Kubel (DH) 8. Suzuki © 9. Florimon (SS) Ricky Nolasco (P)

Brock--nice post above and I agree with you. However, I just don't see Drew as much of an improvement. I would like to see a younger, more athletic SS with his best years ahead of him. Stephen Drew is not that guy IMHO.

It looks to me like Piazza and Biggio will make the Hall, probably next year. I think they're both deserving. Jeff Bagwell has HoF numbers IMHO. I've always thought that Raines belongs, too.

I think an upgrade at short is fine. I don't think Stephen Drew is the guy to do that. I think he's a big candidate for regression and I wonder whether he will be focused on a team that is below .500 on the 4th of July. If the Twins are concerned with building with the hope of being competitive in 2014, they should find a younger guy who may not be ready until 2015.

I'm not big into projections, but mlbtraderumors did an article on Drew a while back and they cited projections that were not at all kind. I just do not believe a multi-year contract for this guy at more than $10M per year will come close to paying off. The draft choice is another pebble in the landslide as far as I'm concerned.

Mods--rename or start an Aaron Hicks thread? In reply to DocBauer, I agree that Hicks is a potential 5-tool talent. However, he needs to improve dramatically with the bat to be a viable contender as a corner outfielder. Secondly, while Hicks made a few spectacular catches and was charged with no errors, he wasn't that good in center field last year. He did improve as the year went on, but his jumps and angles were mediocre especially at the start of the season. Hicks would profile to be a very good to elite defensive corner outfielder and he has a fine arm. The question would be whether he ever will hit enough to be a regular at either right or left field. I believe Buxton is the real deal in center and when he's ready, he's there as long as the Twins can keep him under contract. That would leave Hicks competing with more powerful (but less complete) players for the corner spots. It may be in the best interests of both the player and the team for Hicks to recover his up-and-comer status and then be traded for value. If he develops as I expect, he could be a top-half center fielder and that would net more than Ben Revere or Denard Span.

Of the players who have a draft choice attached, I find very little to like. I guess if the price was right for Ubaldo or Ervin, they could be desireable. I am not in the Drew camp at all. To get players that will be helpful for years to come, it may be necessary to make trades. As I posted earlier, some of the best young shortstops currently producing were traded to their current teams as unproven guys or minor leaguers (or both).

I'd like to see the Twins trade for the next Juan Segura, Everth Cabrera or Didi Gregorius, all of whom were signed by a different team than the team they're now playing for.

There's been a lot of discussion of Drew on the Pedro Florimon thread. I'll post this in response to the pro-Drew comments there: Adding Drew would be at best adding another 2013 Brian Dozier, certainly an improvement but not worth in excess of $10M for multiple years. Drew also brings little speed to the table on the bases. I'll take Florimon at minimum wage and add a hitter like Morales for a second round choice or add Garza and trade Correia, both better alternatives than adding Stephen Drew.

Here are Stephen Drew's numbers for 2013 (including post-season): G-140 PA-558 AB-496 R-61 H-118 2B-29 3B-9 HR-14 RBI-71 OBP-.310 SLG-.415 BB-56 K-143 Pct.-.238 OPS-.725 OPS+-96 This includes Drew's pretty dreadful post-season and lowers his numbers, while still providing a sample for a full season (140 games). Those numbers for a single season would put Drew still as an above-average SS, but nothing special. His OPS would fit between Brian Dozier and AJ Pierzynski. Drew's age, going from a great lineup in a very good offensive home park, and career mediocrity all tell me to stay away from him. He is a good defender, but IMHO, no better than that. Getting Drew for eight figures for multiple years and surrendering a high second round draft choice just doesn't make sense to me. The Twins can get better value spending on other positions. I think the best course to take is to locate someone in another system and trade for him.

I agree that Florimon has no history of being anything but a shortstop and a guy who plays almost every day. I don't think of him as a potential utility guy. I do think he has some trade potential because he is good defensively at a premium position and isn't historically bad as a hitter.

Mauch had Tony Oliva, who could still hit, but couldn't run at all because of a terrible knee injury, and would have Tony lead off the games on the road as the second baseman. If Tony got on, the second baseman (Bobby Randall?) would pinch-run. If not, the second baseman would replace Tony in the field.

I don't know if Aaron Hicks is in my ideal lineup for 2015. My fondest hope is for Hicks to be recalled early, establish himself, and be traded for value as were Span and Revere. I think one of the outfield corners should be manned by Arcia. He has the tools (range/speed & arm) to be a competent outfielder and he's only 22. I am also not sold on Rosario returning to the outfield. In the next year to year and a half, one of he and Dozier could also go for power or pitching.

Thanks Willihammer! I have been thinking about adding a guy to take maybe 100 PAs from Dozier, 150-200 from Plouffe, and maybe another 150-200 as the left fielder. Such a player would certainly render Parmelee totally obselete. I don't think Escobar is the guy, but a lefty hitter in those positions could help the team dramatically. Florimon's splits are puzzling, given his minor league career. I guess it shows that even a season's worth of data is still a small sample size.

Without looking I would say that Cardenas & Aparicio would be considered better than average offensive players. Aparicio won several stolen base championships in addition to being a leadoff hitter. He's in the Hall-of-Fame for defense and stolen bases, but he was a respectable hitter. Cardenas was a pretty good hitter. I think he should be remembered more fondly by Twins fans. He was solid defensively and was a respectable hitter (98 OPS+ for the Twins).

Gardy's re-signing was the height of my discontent, not because he had done a good job or bad job, because to me it signaled more of the same. I think Ryan has demonstrated that more of the same is relative and perhaps this is about continuity. I am still not convinced that Gardenhire will be the right guy for this wave of talent. However, with the signing of three pitchers to multi-year contracts, I am sure Ryan is not saying "all is well".

While I probably agree that Florimon wouldn't be a starter on a pennant contender, but I don't think going for a 30 y.o.-plus free agent SS is the answer. If the Twins don't think they've got a regular SS in their system, they would be well advised to trade for one, a la Segura and Iglesias. Age and injuries take away the skills that make the guys special unless you are Derek Jeter and it appears that time has finally caught up with him.

While Florimon's defense improved, on balance, as the season wore on, his offense diminished as the season progressed. I would say that he had a hard time staying focused in his first full season, especially with all the losing. After experiencing last year, perhaps he'll be better equipped to sustain more consistent performance, both offensively and defensively, for an entire season.