sjunisu

Outstanding post. I will add my additional two cents as well. In addition to poor drafting at the top (Sabato and Cavaco prime examples), we have yet to see the fruits of the Escobar and Pressley trades (which were made some time ago) and both would be useful pieces to this team now (not needed big Donaldson contract, nor Colome). Would be remiss to not also add the 2 trades that are having the biggest impact on next year's Twins (Gil for Cave and Ynoa for 1 game of Garcia). Just imagine if the duo had simply not pulled the trigger on those 2 trades that now look disasterous (would have both and spot in outfield for Wade or Baddoo). Agreed on Chargois and Reed, but Littell looks like could be a real mistake as well. Not having much of anything to show for your pitching prowness after 5yrs at the helm is pretty damning.

The FO is just F****** with us now. Wasn't even on the 40 man, had to add him. Falvine are just trying to show us simpletons they are playing 3-D chess while all us clowns are playing tic-tac-toe.

How we got here is not completely irrelevant as the folks who brought us to this point are now the ones being asked to correct the situation they created. I would also add that I think the folks on this site (and fanbase in general) would be able to handle the 'Tampa' like actions assuming they produced similar results (we have seen a couple of these things in the Cruz and Berrios trades). The difference between Tampa and the Twins right now is they are able to draft/sign/trade and develop young pitching which has up to this point proven difficult at best for this FO.

Winner winner chicken dinner. If we don't see both Ryan and Strotman before the end of the month it will be almost criminal. Should also see a couple other of our 'high-upside' minor leaguers as well. If not, the beginning of next year will not be pretty to say the least (and may still not even with seeing these guys). History tells us we will not see even 1 high priced free agent pitcher, so that means the rotation has to be filled primarily with internal choices (at this point given Maeda's condition we are talking about 5 new starters compared to beginning of 2021) - but the best of these choices have not even experienced big league hitting as of yet.....

We will be fine in 2022 with Gil and Ynoa plugged into 2 slots - oh wait, they don't play for us anymore. Never mind.

Honestly I hope Kepler is no more than the 4th OF on next yrs team. I think he has now had plenty of time to show us the player he is - a slightly above average fielding, poor hitting left-handed corner outfielder who can play CF in a real pinch. That is the definition of a 4th OF in my book. I would rather see AK in the OF (rather than 1B) and possibly move Donaldson over to 1st and let Miranda come up to 3rd. That would allow Kepler to be the 4th OF.

The biggest item I agree with is the dead weight which can trimmed to open up necessary spots for even our borderline prospects. Of your list of 16, there are an easy 8+ that can be opened up (including Cave, Astudillo (a fav of mine), Law, Garlick, Burrows, Vincent, Thorpe, Farrell, and any of the other waiver claims honestly). When we are claiming pitchers from Detroit, you know things are a bit desparate to find the perverbial needle in a haystack.

There is no anger in my comment, only an opinion based on the results of this season. The roster you provided has no Berrios, no Cruz, and more than a handful of rookies/unproven prospects. I am only comparing this years squad/performance to the one listed in this thread. The FO can certainly go this route (it is their job not mine) but should come out and state they are entering a full rebuild which would be the honest thing to do.

If this is the team the Twins would field to start 2022, a 90 loss season would be significantly over-achieving. No offense, but this roster would lose 100 games easily and may challenge for the all-time worst MLB record.

I would not discount some 'hubris' involved in these moves - meaning them trying show how much smarter/better they are at analyzing pitching than the other FOs if they find the perverbial needle in a haystack.

How about this as middle ground - I don't think most of the critical posters here (including myself) are demanding the duo be fired this offseason. I personally am willing to give them 1 more season to show significant improvement (this includes being at least a game or two over .500, a rapidly improving rotation and bullpen, position player improvement, managerial decisions, etc...) As I stated in a previous post, this will probably need to include adding at least 1 big bat, and probably 2 pitchers the quality of Berrios (since even with him achoring this staff it was horrible). Then with the prospects acquired as well as in the system already, can backfill other rotation slots, maybe a couple bullpen slots, and a utility slot. I am very skeptical this will occur given the history of this FO and signing higher-end pitchers (maybe the big bat slot will get filled but even that is 50/50). If they follow their 5 yr history and sign below-average starters and hope to fill rest with prospects, they will not meet my original expectation and at that point I will be calling for their removal. Is giving them 6 yrs an acceptable amount of time (certainly is to me)?

34-37 with the Boomstick leading the heart of the order and Jose leading the rotation. Unfortunately neither of those players are with the team any longer. Now if you are saying the Twins will 1) Sign a starter comparable to Berrios, 2) Sign another starter comparable to Berrios to augment the staff (as with Berrios achoring it was a 34-37 staff), and 3) sign a big time hitter to replace Cruz, then maybe I can see some hope. But history tells me 1 and 2 won't happen and maybe 3 will, but it is by no means certain.

I would also add in Oakland, Cleveland, and St Louis as best run organizations. That is 5/30 teams. At this point, I would not put the Twins FO in the top 20.

Why? Burrows, Gracia, and a few others are taking up/eating innings that should go to several of our own propects. This is the fundemental problem with the FO - constantly trying to find reclamation projects eating up roster space instead of looking and using our own prospects to see what we actually have. The FO has clearly misjudged some of our own prospects previously and continue to show this is one of their major weaknesses (think discarded prospects from others are worth more of a look than our own).

Outstanding post and shows my thoughts as well. We have seen a total of 0 pitchers make a presence in the pen or rotation during their tenure. We keep hearing about this 'pitching prospects' but are not seeing many at the big club and the ones we have are not impressive to say the least. Maybe that changes, but maybe (given the post above) it does not....

This. Not sure how anyone can be more that just skeptical at this point (and doubtful is not out of the realm). Yes 2019 was a great year with juiced baseballs and the Twins stacked with hitters who could put it in the seats. Ball changes and so did the hitter results. 2020 really can't be judged good or bad given the strange circumstances all year. That leaves the other 3 yrs which have not been good. So color me between skeptical and doubtful.

So you are saying Falvine need 10 years (the 5 they already have, plus another 5 yrs from now) to be judged on how well they are handling the pitching pipeline and staff? I simply do not agree with that length of time - judgement starts now and thru next yr which gives them 6; plenty of time.

This is the winning post in this thread. We need to once and for all end the falacy that Falvey is some kind of pitcher whisper. He has been here 5 yrs and identified as many quality pitchers as I have - zero (at a much higher salary I would add). The other fact is there are many folks on here who routinely criticze (and rightfully so) this FO for there inability to evaluate their own talent. There are constantly posts about eliminating dead weight/wood to evaluate what the team has in the wings and these guys routinely tap cast-offs and has-beens instead of our own young talent which has unfortunately sprouted in other organizations periodically (whilst I have yet to see them identify and develop any of these cast-offs).

Falvine created this 'tough spot' for the Twins themselves (totally self inflicted). Litterally every move made this offseason has been a disaster (they r the only ones in the org batting 1.000). Add in the very poor Sano extension and very regrettable errors on our own minor leaguers (Badoo, Wade, etc..) And now it is looking possible that they will not be able to pull off any other positive direction moves. Other orgs (Tampa, Cleveland, St. Louis, Oakland) can let player go/trade and retool within a short period of time. Twins front office from Ryan to Falvine have proven they cannot time and time again. A strong front office (as the teams referenced have) would be able to execute the move of Berrios and even a Buxton or Kepler and continue to move forward.