heresthething

Given how the FO uses the bullpen how can they not spend big money or prospect capital on it? We've been through enough seasons where they didn't spend enough money on the BP and it cost us.

During September, Minnesota plays their chief competition a combined 17 times. Facing the Cleveland Guardians eight times, and the Chicago White Sox nine times (including a final three game series to end the season in October), it’s there that the division will be decided. Agree with you in principle Ted but my hunch is these teams will play to about .500 when all is said and done. It's the 22 games with KC, Detroit, Texas, Angels and crazily enough Boston series that I think will be the decisive factor. They keep losing these games against out of contention teams it's all over.

Dodgers payroll - 265 million https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/payroll/ Twins payroll - 143 million https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/payroll/ Sure we might win a game here and there but that's about it...all that needs to be said.

Exactly this...and especially (2) He does not have a killer lineup surrounding him, where he is just one of many top hitters.

I like what you're saying and agree 100% with Ruesse's take. if the White Sox hadn't imploded so far this year no way this team is in first place. If they make trades it will be for players that have at least another year of control and they fit into their long term plans or if they somehow get some deal on a short term rental they can't refuse.

Let's add the outstanding job they did not calling the Brewers runner out when he left the base path to first base.

Interesting point to me about this debate is what the hitters are doing by the third time around. Am recalling a KFAN interview Berriro did with retired ump Tschida. His idea was to limit the amount of in game electronics, he was saying these hitters are watching video of the pitcher and it's giving them an advantage they never used to have. I don't think hitters are better then they used to be, maybe overall the quality is better? So if even #1 pitchers are getting pulled early there's more to this debate than just the pitcher.

Exactly this jkcarew. It eventually puts every bullpen arm into a high leverage situation and it all implodes. Championship teams do not build their pitching staffs like this.

Interesting what you can do with a manager that actually knows how to manage. Wish we had someone like Francona.

Interesting add to this analysis would be what % of the time a stolen base then leads to that run scoring.

Agree with your take FlyingFinn as to why, soon as I saw they were both out I suspected the same, they made a decision to rest both of them for a game they thought the % chance was low to win it. While I don't disagree with the logic, to rest both of them for a home game is tone deaf to your fan base. As others have pointed out fans don't spend all that money to see the B squad. If this is your plan do it on road games. And if you and all of your coaching staff can't figure it out when to rest guys and not have both Buxton and CC out on the same day...wow, just wow....

The problem is we need at least two quality BP arms, one I could see them pulling off but more than that is gonna get really expensive in trade capital. The bigger issue with this FO is they don't like to spend on the bullpen and appear to have little capability to correctly judge what they do acquire. Seems there are always lots of posts in the off season about not spending too much on BP arms because we should be able to pick them up without investing too much. Unfortunately it never/rarely seems to work out for us.

Anyone else think it looked like he was playing kind of shallow? This is exactly what used to get Buc into trouble because he would race back to get that ball and hit the wall. Can't recall where I read or heard it but generally speaking it looks like outfielders are playing deeper to 1) avoid the gap balls with the extra benefit of 2) reduce injuries from hitting the wall at full speed. Feel bad for him, hope he heals quickly.

Until the Twins prove they are a legit team who can consistently play .500 ball against playoff caliber teams I'm not spending the money.

Fair point on the Santana trade debacle but the issue with that trade is it's really hard not to think Smith botched it. Lots of ink spilled over the years lamenting how wrong that trade went. But I get why the comparison and I agree there is plenty of room for the value to not be there. Hopefully they don't pull the trigger for a marginal trade.

I said this in another thread and it's worth repeating. This article provides great insight on the strategy this FO has for sustainable success. https://www.twinkietown.com/2022/2/6/22659344/mlb-minnesota-twins-offseason-2022-and-strategy-homegrown-pitching-not-a-rebuild-cleveland-tampa-bay This team doesn't have the pitching to even get to the ALCS, let alone the WS. I think the FO realizes this and traded Rogers. Why they went for what they did...not really sure WTH they were thinking but the intent of the trade fits the strategy. Who on this board wasn't astonished/completely surprised at what they got for Cruz? I'm not saying they WILL do this but I think the % chance is much higher than many think it is. If CC is playing up to his ability it isn't only playoff teams that will be in the mix for CC, someone will trade and sign him long term. And no I don't know who that will be and I don't think anyone else does either. And for anyone that has tried to narrow who they could trade with a 3 team trade just blows any of that logic out of the water right? Who knows, maybe teams have finally gotten wise to these absurd 10 year deals...on second thought.....some team will do it. Maybe it's the best option to play it out but ya gotta listen to those offers because they're gonna get them and it could be a 3 team trade that does it. Having said all that I love watching him play and really wish the Twins could find a way to keep him but that isn't the Twins way.

I said " Do I want it? Of course not, I would love it if they signed him longer term." What is worth reading is this article on the Twins FO philosophy and why I think they will trade him. https://www.twinkietown.com/2022/2/6/22659344/mlb-minnesota-twins-offseason-2022-and-strategy-homegrown-pitching-not-a-rebuild-cleveland-tampa-bay I think where I differ from other posters on this topic: I do not believe they will sign CC for the level of money and years he wants and would get from other teams. He is not going to take some discount because he loves it here. Even with CC we are not a team that will make the AL Championship series let alone the WS in '22. Principally because the FO will not buy or trade for the level of pitching in '22 to do so. Some team will give up quality players for CC. How does the FO not take those calls? They didn't sign him to this deal to have him walk at the end of the year, he's too big of a trade chip. The floor is at least one Joe Ryan type. Seriously, the John Foley article is well worth the time and IMO explains much of what they are doing. Not saying I 100% agree but it seems to fit pretty well.

Look at this through the lens of what they could get for CC. Do I want it? Of course not, I would love it if they signed him longer term. But this is not a WS team, they don't have the pitching for it. Assuming CC is healthy and playing well they will get a haul from a team in the mix for the playoffs and think they are a CC away from it. The Cruz for Ryan trade shows what the floor is. The fact that he's playing other positions doesn't take away from where they want him to play. For an interesting perspective on the FO strategy on to building a sustainable winning team find an article by John Foley on one of the other Twins fan sites.

I think the move that's coming is what do they get for CC at the deadline. The Royce demotion so he can play shortstop full time with the Saints basically shows what they're intending.

IMO Buxton wants to play literally every inning if he could, I've never doubted his willingness but I'm sure with this contract the Twins talked to his team specifically about what they might or perhaps need to do to keep him healthy. And they are in first place so it's times like these where if they can pull back a little to keep him fresher, especially this early in the season, it seems this is what we're going to get. The Twins misstepped not being forthright about what's going on, the organization should have learned something from the bilateral leg weakness fiasco. Glad Rocco provided some explanation today.

Completely agree. I posted about when Buxton got hit in the hands that this was no accident. Don't know what it is about this team but they haven't really ever shown much inclination to retaliate. I don't get it, teams are throwing at our MVPs...do something about it.

And this is where we find out if the coach and FO have learned from the last couple of years about hanging on too long to a failed signing. Then again, maybe they're looking at the standings and thinking "meh" it's just a bad stretch for Bundy, we're still ok. We'll see...

Saw Buxton get beaned but wasn't able to watch all of Kluber's innings. Did he come close to hitting anyone else? Didn't seem to bother Buxton from what I could see but sure hope nothing comes of it.

One would think so Vanimal46 but then again the FO and coach has demonstrated multiple times they can't let go. Jury's out until we see some proof they have learned from past mistakes.

One or both of them will fail along with a problem or two for the rest of the starting staff. Better hope the FO acts on Bundy and/or Archer quickly and that those arms in AAA can bring something to the table or we are in trouble.