Missing Pieces? Lost Minor League Players

  On 2/27/2018 at 3:38 AM, Han Joelo said:

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know somebody will) but if Burdi or Bard had been added before the Rule V, they couldn't be dropped during this time frame, right? So in a way, the Twins traded Kinley for one of those guys, say Burdi, which gave them more flexibility during the free agency period as far as who they had available to drop. Basically, they traded one iffy minor leaguer for another, but one they could get off the roster if needed.

 

I know we've been conditioned to think that dumping Kinley won't happen until a double digit ERA has been maintained for at least three months, but I'd like to think this version of the Twins will be a little more cutthroat then that.

 

At this point, if they'd have protected Bard and Burdi, who would be on this list instead?

Generally correct.

 

Players with less than 3 years service time, added to the 40-man between August 15 and the Rule 5 draft, can't be outrighted off the 40-man roster between the World Series up until 20 days before opening day.

 

But they can be "removed" by release or trade. Or even by 60-day DL once pitchers and catchers report, like Burdi. No different than Kinley in that regard -- he couldn't be outrighted off the 40-man either (or optioned, once the season began). And of course, outrighting is only possible if a player clears waivers, and Bard and Burdi would have both likely been claimed anyway.

 

Given that we signed 6 MLB free agents (including Sanchez) and still kept Kinley, I don't think this was really part of their criteria for leaving Burdi and Bard unprotected.

Edited March 1, 2018 by spycake

  On 2/27/2018 at 5:58 PM, old nurse said:

Bard could r be the next Bud Norris More of a chance he could be back in Rochester

I think there is a pretty good chance the Angels keep Bard -- they have kept several Rule 5 the last few years. That doesn't mean he will contribute much, but I would be mildly surprised if he winds up back in Rochester this year.

  On 3/1/2018 at 2:25 AM, old nurse said:

12 rp on the 40 man. looks like 8 were active in mlb in 2017 and the Angels had a pretty good pen last year. There has been some mentioning that the Angels would go with a 6 man rotation. That would mean a shorter bullpen. The back end of the bullpen would need to be a player with options to shuttle when the bullpen wears out

Angels lost 3 of their top bullpen contributors from 2017 (Petit, Norris, and Hernandez), and their only acquisition (aside from Bard) appears to be the 5.56 ERA of Jim Johnson. A couple of those 8 RP active in 2017 were August waiver pickups (with little organizational seniority advantage over Bard) and/or mediocre performers. Blake Wood looks like a 32 year old Tonkin clone, for example.

 

If the Angels go with a 6 man rotation, it is because Otani is pulling double duty as a DH, so presumably it would come at the expense of a bench position player rather than a reliever.

 

Also, with a 10 day DL, it is less important to have players with options on your roster for flexibility.

And keep in mind this is the same Angels org that rostered their last two Rule 5 picks: Deolis Guerra (former Twin and minor league FA) and Taylor Featherston (.162 AVG, current Twins minor league FA). All while trying to compete too.

 

I'm not claiming Bard is a lock to make their 2018 squad, but given the circumstances, I'd give him greater odds than the average Rule 5 pick.

Edited March 1, 2018 by spycake

Redirected from another thread...

 

  On 3/1/2018 at 5:45 PM, jkcarew said:

Yesterday, I read this and got depressed. Then I looked at the LAA spring training box scores and saw that Bard's first two outings were perfect, and got even more depressed. Later in the evening, I saw that Bard was shelled in yesterday's appearance, and it made me happier.

 

Where should I seek counseling?

Hey, at least you're not closely watching NFL preseason games! (I hope!)

 

FWIW, Bard wasn't the only Angel pitcher to get shelled yesterday:

 

  Quote

… Blake Parker, who broke camp with the Angels a year ago in large part because of a streak that saw him strike out the last 17 batters he faced, began his spring by inducing a groundout. He then gave up three runs. … Parker Bridwell, who pitched two scoreless innings on just 19 pitches in his first outing, gave up five runs and recorded only three outs this time. … Right-hander Luke Bard, a Rule 5 pick who had retired all six hitters he faced in his first two games, gave up five runs, including a grand slam. … The Angels gave up 23 hits.

Obviously Bard has less of a margin for error than some guys. Should be interesting to follow.

  On 3/2/2018 at 12:50 AM, sdangus said:

One thing nobody has ever mentioned when discussing rostering Bard or Burdi and now Chargois is what the injury history would do to tie up the 40-man roster during the season. It is likely that none of them would make the 25 man roster to start the season if they were still with the Twins.

If they are playing in the minor leagues and get injured (or in Burdi's case was injured last year) they can not be placed on the 60 Day disabled list on the 40 man roster, but must go on the minor league disabled list, which then ties up a 40 man roster spot that can not be used for another useful player. That is the reason that the front office feels they can not have these guys on their 40 man roster.

Minor league players can be placed on the MLB 60 day DL. It happened to Chargois just last September. Teams generally avoid it because it gives the player a higher salary and service time and can't be reversed, but it is absolutely possible if needed.

 

And a player injured before spring training, like Burdi, has to go on the MLB DL if they are not healthy by opening day because they can't be optioned to the minors while injured.

Edited March 2, 2018 by spycake

  On 3/2/2018 at 2:25 AM, sdangus said:

Your are correct. If they are activated they can be placed on the major league disabled list. But then you are paying them a major league salary and benefits, as well as giving them valuable service time to get them closer to arbitration. I don't think teams go this route unless absolutely necessary.

I think in Burdi's case he is probably consider on the active roster due to the Rule 5 distinction, so he could be placed on the 60 day list.

In Chargois case, the team avoided activating him and placing him on the 60 day almost all season and had to release other players from their roster during the season in order to activate others to fill team needs, which shows what having that spot tied up causes. They would have had the same situation again this year if he was still unable to pitch to start this season. I think they have determined that those spots are just too valuable to have tied up with players that are unable to perform.

Occam's Razor: the team had many relief prospects who had already passed Burdi and Bard and Chargois, and they also signed (or planned to sign, at the time of the Rule 5 draft) several FA relievers. Don't overthink this, if they thought these pitchers were good and valuable to the 2018 team, the "risks" you describe would not have stopped them.