2023 Twins Top 10 Prospect Rankings: Where Does Jose Salas Fit?

23 hours ago, Dman said:

For me he is really tough to slot.  I would have him anywhere from 4 to 8.  It is hard for me to compare pitchers to position players.  If you just skip pitchers I would have him at number 4 because I think he can be a solid defender, he has a good eye at the plate, can hit and hopefully hit for power.  He was a bit down with the bat at High A so it makes one wonder a bit about the hit tool but he is also only 19 and already at high A so that is a plus as well.

If the bat breaks out he is a top 5 prospect for sure whether he sticks at short or not for me.  If the bat stalls then he drops.  Man he is big for 19 years old..  Happy to have a player with his upside to watch at High A, which will need all the good players they can get.

I’d have to concur. I understand that it’s a bit more work, but the list should almost be pitchers and fielders (2 lists). 
 

I think Seth started to do that some last year, mostly because because we all perceive the two very differently. 

5 hours ago, Dman said:

For sure I just think they will use him in the outfield as a right handed bat there.  He could move back if Correa needs to move off.  Hopefully they will have someone else ready by then though.

It would be a waste to use Royce Lewis in LF if he can play the infield. Better off trading him.

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

It would be a waste to use Royce Lewis in LF if he can play the infield. Better off trading him.

I would put in him right field and use him in center to cover for Buxton.

1 minute ago, Dman said:

I would put in him right field and use him in center to cover for Buxton.  That would allow the Twins to use more right handed bats against lefties.

The ship has sailed on Lewis and Lee being SS for the Twins. And it's not because they aren't great talents with the ability to be good there. But Correa has that spot locked down for at least 4yrs, if not longer. But I believe each can, and probably will, be fill ins at SS when Correa is out of the lineup.

As talented as he may be, and as well as he performed while so young, I think Salas in the top 10 is accurate, though I'm only familiar with him just recently after the trade. I might slot him at 9, behind Julien, only because of age and closeness to the ML level, and some doubts about growing out of the SS position. But a single place or two is fungible. If the milb listed numbers are correct and he's a full 6' 2" and 191 lbs at 19 1/2 years old right now, I can envision growth being an issue to remain at SS. He's also young enough that the proverbial "man muscle" might be more a continued maturation of his body without going past 200lbs. And he might stick around that weight with his height and frame. Developing power isn't always bulking up and weight gain. Sometimes it's replacing a little "young man" body fat with muscle, naturally toning up, and learning to use the strength you have.

He sure sounds like an intriguing young prospect, and a potential steal as the 2nd piece in this deal.

But wherever he does end up playing, you can never have too much talent. I'd wager that half of the ML 2B/3B/OF probably played SS in HS as they were the most talented athlete on the field. But I just about do a spit-take every time I hear something about Lewis, or player X, being a waste of talent by not staying at SS and moving elsewhere. How many examples of truly great ballplayers could we name who moved to those other positions? It's YTBD where Lewis ends up on a daily basis. But if he becomes a top 2B/3B or OF with hit/OB/Power/Speed and good to excellent defense, who cares if he could have been a solid SS when you have someone like Correa managing that spot?

1 hour ago, Dman said:

I would put in him right field and use him in center to cover for Buxton.

Not disagreeing with you. I can look in my muddy crystal ball and see Lewis at 2B, 3B, LF, RF, and still able to play CF as you've stated. And we still have Lee, and maybe Julien, to fit in to the 2B/3B equation. (Personally, despite Julien focusing on 2B in 2022, I see him being used as a DH and utility player at a handful of positions where he will never be beyond average, but OK, and get his bat in the lineup). 

But until/unless Martin starts to fulfill his promise as a top of the order bat in LF/CF...who still might be able to cover 3B/2B some...I think I like Lewis better in LF, IF he's moved out of the infield. He's got the wheels to cover all that territory, as well as a solid arm. I just see one of Larnach or Wallner...decent athletes though not great...with their cannon arms taking over RF. And I see that soon, probably to begin 2024, if not sooner.

44 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Not disagreeing with you. I can look in my muddy crystal ball and see Lewis at 2B, 3B, LF, RF, and still able to play CF as you've stated. And we still have Lee, and maybe Julien, to fit in to the 2B/3B equation. (Personally, despite Julien focusing on 2B in 2022, I see him being used as a DH and utility player at a handful of positions where he will never be beyond average, but OK, and get his bat in the lineup). 

But until/unless Martin starts to fulfill his promise as a top of the order bat in LF/CF...who still might be able to cover 3B/2B some...I think I like Lewis better in LF, IF he's moved out of the infield. He's got the wheels to cover all that territory, as well as a solid arm. I just see one of Larnach or Wallner...decent athletes though not great...with their cannon arms taking over RF. And I see that soon, probably to begin 2024, if not sooner.

Sure I think he is fine in left as well but if you want to maximize all of Lewis skills to the max then Short, center and Right take advantage of his plus speed, plus arm, and defense.  You start to minimize those skills when you put him in left as that position doesn't require the arm that right does, at third doesn't utilize his speed or second doesn't utilize his arm.

Not saying he has to be utilized to the max but those are the places I would play him first.  He literally is talented enough to play any position but catcher, but I think you would want to maximize his talent when you can unless of course you have a better option somewhere or you want him to sub for a position where his defense makes a larger difference. 

It probably would make sense to give him a primary position but I think we are always going to need Buxton insurance so he likely will need to play some centerfield.  He can sub for Correa as well.  If his bat is as good as I think it is going to be he is someone they are going to want in lineup no matter what.  He just happens to be talented enough to play wherever they need him defensively.

54 minutes ago, Dman said:

Sure I think he is fine in left as well but if you want to maximize all of Lewis skills to the max then Short, center and Right take advantage of his plus speed, plus arm, and defense.  You start to minimize those skills when you put him in left as that position doesn't require the arm that right does, at third doesn't utilize his speed or second doesn't utilize his arm.

Not saying he has to be utilized to the max but those are the places I would play him first.  He literally is talented enough to play any position but catcher, but I think you would want to maximize his talent when you can unless of course you have a better option somewhere or you want him to sub for a position where his defense makes a larger difference. 

It probably would make sense to give him a primary position but I think we are always going to need Buxton insurance so he likely will need to play some centerfield.  He can sub for Correa as well.  If his bat is as good as I think it is going to be he is someone they are going to want in lineup no matter what.  He just happens to be talented enough to play wherever they need him defensively.

Absolutely! Maximize his talent. 

But I'm just saying he CAN be great virtually anywhere. But if either Larnach or Wallner prove they belong with the bat, and can play solid defense, (Still betting on Larnach), I just like the cannon arm in RF with Lewis in LF and covering CF as well as still being able to play the INF. I'm just seeing him in LF instead of RF for one of those other two options on a daily basis. 

This list is a reason for optimism. 

Dilly!

Dilly.

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

It would be a waste to use his speed and arm in the OF, along with his hitting? Speechless.

He'll get one ball a game in LF and you don't need an arm there. He's too good of a defender to be put out to pasture.

11 hours ago, Dman said:

Sure I think he is fine in left as well but if you want to maximize all of Lewis skills to the max then Short, center and Right take advantage of his plus speed, plus arm, and defense.  You start to minimize those skills when you put him in left as that position doesn't require the arm that right does, at third doesn't utilize his speed or second doesn't utilize his arm.

Not saying he has to be utilized to the max but those are the places I would play him first.  He literally is talented enough to play any position but catcher, but I think you would want to maximize his talent when you can unless of course you have a better option somewhere or you want him to sub for a position where his defense makes a larger difference. 

It probably would make sense to give him a primary position but I think we are always going to need Buxton insurance so he likely will need to play some centerfield.  He can sub for Correa as well.  If his bat is as good as I think it is going to be he is someone they are going to want in lineup no matter what.  He just happens to be talented enough to play wherever they need him defensively.

I think you're underrating how range can help a third baseman. It makes no sense to me to play Jose Miranda at 3B if Royce Lewis is available. SS, 3B, CF, 2B, RF, LF, 1B in that order and I'd probably trade him if I only had room to play him in RF, LF or 1B.

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I think you're underrating how range can help a third baseman. It makes no sense to me to play Jose Miranda at 3B if Royce Lewis is available. SS, 3B, CF, 2B, RF, LF, 1B in that order and I'd probably trade him if I only had room to play him in RF, LF or 1B.

Sure range is nice to have at every position but is often sacrificed for offense.  My thinking with Lewis would be this.  Am I getting more from his offense\defense replacing Miranda at third or more replacing Larnach or Wallner or Kepler in the outfield who don't hit lefties all that well and Wallner\Larnach who don't run all that with Lewis?  I think Lewis would have a greater offensive and defensive value in the outfield.

I don't know about you but a lot the balls hit to third are hard hit smashes which doesn't require much range.  There are always a few dribblers where it nice to have a guy that can move get to them where range would help considerably but in general there is a reason why a lot of teams are fine putting a slower footed slugger at third if they can provide the needed offense.

I don't really have a strong preference for where they play Lewis (although with all the lefty outfielders he works well there) but to me it would make sense to put him where he can help the team most. Take out the weakest link and insert Lewis.

4 hours ago, Dman said:

Sure range is nice to have at every position but is often sacrificed for offense.  My thinking with Lewis would be this.  Am I getting more from his offense\defense replacing Miranda at third or more replacing Larnach or Wallner or Kepler in the outfield who don't hit lefties all that well and Wallner\Larnach who don't run all that with Lewis?  I think Lewis would have a greater offensive and defensive value in the outfield.

I don't know about you but a lot the balls hit to third are hard hit smashes which doesn't require much range.  There are always a few dribblers where it nice to have a guy that can move get to them where range would help considerably but in general there is a reason why a lot of teams are fine putting a slower footed slugger at third if they can provide the needed offense.

I don't really have a strong preference for where they play Lewis (although with all the lefty outfielders he works well there) but to me it would make sense to put him where he can help the team most. Take out the weakest link and insert Lewis.

The positional adjustment is 10 runs higher at 3B than in LF. If Lewis' defense is average at each you're throwing away 1 WAR per season playing him in LF.

Teams haven't been putting slow footed sluggers at 3B. They've been putting a second shortstop at the position (Bregman, Arenado, Machado, Chapman). Jose Miranda is a below average defensive 3B and there are several good fielding LF on the team. That means the Twins would actually throw away 2 WAR putting Lewis in LF and Miranda at 3B.

28 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The positional adjustment is 10 runs higher at 3B than in LF. If Lewis' defense is average at each you're throwing away 1 WAR per season playing him in LF.

Teams haven't been putting slow footed sluggers at 3B. They've been putting a second shortstop at the position (Bregman, Arenado, Machado, Chapman). Jose Miranda is a below average defensive 3B and there are several good fielding LF on the team. That means the Twins would actually throw away 2 WAR putting Lewis in LF and Miranda at 3B.

I don't know why you want to put Lewis in Left as that is a position reserved for slower footed outfielders with average arms and a power hitting profile.  It makes more sense to put him in right. I mean they are talking about putting Farmer in left and they had even thrown Arraez out there. It is where teams generally throw their weakest outfield defenders.  As far as third they just had the slow footed Urshela playing third all year last year.  Even Donaldson wasn't a speedster and they had him playing third and paid him good money to do so.  Both of those players were deemed good defenders without great speed at third.  Left and third are both positions where teams often sacrifice some defense for offense. Unless the defense is really bad thinking Sano.

Would Royce be good at third you bet. You will get no argument from me there.  Lewis just happens to be one of the few players that can be a likely above average defender in the outfield as well as the infield. With a heavy lefty lineup put him in spots to replace a lefty bat. There are lot's of lefty bats in the outfield right now.

We'll see maybe the Twins will love him at third and play him there all the time I just think he is more versatile than that is all.  If he didn't make it at short lot's of pundits\scouts profiled Lewis to play center but with Buxton there he wouldn't be able to play there all the time.  So right seems like a decent spot as well IMO.

8 minutes ago, Dman said:

I don't know why you want to put Lewis in Left.  It makes more sense to put him in right.

Not on this team. Kepler and Gallo are excellent defenders. Lewis is unlikely to be better.

I think Lewis could be Manny Machado at 3B. You wouldn't put Machado in the outfield.

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Not on this team. Kepler and Gallo are excellent defenders. Lewis is unlikely to be better.

I think Lewis could be Manny Machado at 3B. You wouldn't put Machado in the outfield.

Lewis isn't back until maybe the deadline.  He isn't really viable until next year IMO. Gallo is in a one year deal.  If stinks again they won't resign him.  If he is really good they will get outbid for him.  Kepler might be a good defender but his bat is pretty bad.  There is a solid chance he isn't even on the team in a few months.  They need a right handed bat in the outfield and there really isn't one coming up anytime soon.  I think it will be Lewis in the end.

I really like Salas, he's interesting to me. I could see him slot into top 5 by the end of the year, however I could also see him outside of the top 12-15. Time is on his side as he is still 19, but I'm eager to see this guy!

Lewis had a cup of coffee last season before he was injured. Brooks Lee and Salas are still prospects. Lee projects to be excellent both at the plate and in the field. Salas has physical tools which still need to be shown at a higher level. All three will get an opportunity to prove they belong in MLB. If Lee is a better third baseman than Lewis or others, he should be the guy there. Using an athletic player like Lewis in LF is a good problem if someone like Lee or another proves to be better at 3B. The Twins, like many teams, have some exciting young players and prospects pushing for an opportunity to become stars. This season should reveal some guys for the Twins.

Miranda has been working his ass off and will get his shot at 3rd. We don't know how good he will be yet. 

On 1/27/2023 at 3:22 PM, DJL44 said:

Not on this team. Kepler and Gallo are excellent defenders. Lewis is unlikely to be better.

I think Lewis could be Manny Machado at 3B. You wouldn't put Machado in the outfield.

FWIW I did read something the other day that Lewis did prefer playing on the dirt so if he isn't comfortable out there )especially after the crash into the wall) in the outfield then maybe the Twins will keep him on the dirt.  It is all speculation at this point and there are lots of ways to work him into the infield as well.  If he isn't going to be a real option in the outfield though the Twins are going to need another right handed bat out there at some point.

Which do you feel is better?  Maximize a player's potential or use a player's potential to maximize the team's potential?  Personally, I prefer the latter.  I would use Lewis at whatever position that places the best Twins team on the field.  If Larnach proves to be a better right fielder than left fielder, then put Lewis in LF and Larnach in RF.  If Miranda becomes the next Brooks Robinson (for you young folk, that means superior defense), Lewis never plays 3B and will be forever an outfielder.  If that ends up becoming a problem of where to play Lee, Lewis, and Salas, the Twins will have valuable assets to trade.

Austin Martin should be #10 in my opinion instead of Wallner. I think Austin Martin will make a Royce Lewis kind of jump. If you remember Lewis hit a bad patch in his minors career and adjusted his swing with a less pronounced leg kick to create a better result at the plate. I see Austin Martin having the same kind of bounce back that we saw in the AFL league. I think he will be a top 5 before the end of 2023.  
 

I like the investment in position players though. This is a sustainable approach as pitchers are such a roll of the dice when it comes to prospects.  I do think the approach the FO is using will pay off in spades over the next 5-8 years with a new window opening around the core. Just hoping we can catch lighting in a bottle with a core that can be like Puckett, Hrbek, Gagne or Hunter, Mauer and Morneau. 
 

2 minutes ago, JoeCool said:

Just hoping we can catch lighting in a bottle with a core that can be like Puckett, Hrbek, Gagne or Hunter, Mauer and Morneau. 

This is the ticket to sustained good baseball where the Twins, or any team actually, competes in the playoffs. Gordon, Kirilloff, Miranda, Martin, Lewis, Lee, Salas, Julien, Larnach, Wallner, Rodriguez, and surprises to come are all short of 1,000 at bats at the major league level. The performance on the field using talent and skills will eventually determine who gets the playing time. Right now it looks like all of the Twins young guys are competing for nine spots with two catchers, Buxton, and Correa being roster fixtures for the next half decade. 

The post concerned Jose Salas and he has some baseball to play before I place him in the top ten for the Twins.

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

You're also assuming they have another player as good a defender as Lewis available for the OF.....

Austin Martin is going to the outfield.

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Austin Martin is going to the outfield.

Or second base? 

Have the Twins (or someone closely tied to the team with some specific knowledge of players) put out any statements or concrete hints about Austin Martin?