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  • The Potential Cost of Acquiring Pitching in Trades


    Sherry Cerny

    Thursday night, we watched as the Twins imploded late in the game against the Yankees. The depleted pitching staff struggled to keep the Yankees off the board and ultimately cost the Twins a win. The offense is on a trajectory for postseason action, but the pitching rotation and bullpen aren't even close. With the trade deadline coming in just under two months, the Twins need to capitalize on trades for available starting and back-end bullpen help. 

     

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    With several recent graduations, the Twins’ farm system is middle of the pack in the league. Sitting at 15 on Bleacher Report’s organizational, the Twins' depth has three top 100 players and more with the capability to get there. The Twins have acquired a lot of talent through the draft but also in some quality trades. 

    Last year's Jose Berrios trade with the Blue Jays left many in the Twins community unhappy. He was an All-Star caliber pitcher for the Twins, the best one they had at the time. Berrios pitched one of his best games against the Twins last week reminding fans how much his arm is missed.  At that time, many fans thought that was the most painful trade and left a sinking hole in people's hearts, but not as much as the trade with Tampa sending the fan and clubhouse favorite Nelson Cruz to the Rays. 

    Those trades brought pitchers Joe Ryan, Drew Strotman, and Simeon Woods Richardson, as well as consensus Top 100 prospect, Austin Martin. To this point, only Joe Ryan has made a significant impact on the big-league club and bolstered them to where they are now. The Twins have an above .500 record, first place in the division, and three games ahead of the second-place Guardians. If it weren't for the trades, the team may not be stacked like it is. 

    The only place the Twins seem to be struggling is the pitching, which is a nice change for the club, which seemed to struggle in all aspects of the game last year. This season though, it’s starting rotation has taken a huge hit. Even with the extra few roster spots and time to stretch out, we have seen several pitchers lose time due to injury. Josh Winder is out with a shoulder impingement, Sonny Gray is on the IL with a pectoral strain after making a comeback from a previous trip to the IL with a leg injury. Bailey Ober is back on the IL with the groin injury that cost him three weeks earlier this season. Joe Ryan is rehabbing after missing time on the COVID-IL. Chris Paddack had Tommy John surgery last month, and Cody Stashak needs season-ending biceps/shoulder surgery. Even if they get healthy, having another starting pitcher makes all the sense. 

    At the end of the lockout, the Twins started by making some strong trades to bolster their roster, but at the end of all of the amazing acquisitions, the fan base was left wondering one question: "Where Frankie?”

    Frankie Montas, the right-handed starter from Oakland, is still there, beefing up his trade value and becoming one of the most significant assets at the trade deadline. To make this deal, the Twins would have to give the A's several players that would bolster their talent base and, hopefully, their fan base. 

    Last week, Montas had a strong appearance, a win against the Astros, something the Twins lacked early on in the season. Montas has been doing his work to keep his trade value up. He has posted a 3.20 ERA and a 0.99 WHiP in his 64 2/3 innings entering Friday, striking out 71 batters with 15 walks. The Athletics know that he is a substantial piece of everyone's puzzle and will be looking for the best trade pieces to deal him. 

    The A's spent the offseason cutting payroll, again. They traded Matt Chapman to the Blue Jays, Matt Olson to Atlanta, and Sean Manaea to the Padres. First-year manager Mark Kotsay has done a nice job working with the team in what is clearly a rebuilding phase. They acquired a lot of talent for those players, and will expect a ton in return for Montas. 

    Keeping in mind that the Twins also need to acquire at least two relief pitchers without giving away the farm for Montas, the best trade pieces for the right-hander are Alex Kirilloff, José Miranda and Jovani Moran

    Kirilloff and Miranda have quickly settled into the majors. Kirilloff struggled at the beginning of the season with an injury, but the outfielder has been cleaning up in St. Paul. He could be a home run hitter for the West Coast team. He has a good trade value. With all the depth in the Minnesota outfield with players like Trevor Larnach, Kyle Garlick, Gilberto Celestino, Nick Gordon, and Max Kepler, to name a few.  

    Miranda, who looked a little shaky early in his big-league time, has grown into his swing. The corner infielder has been a surprising member of the home run club that the Twins have this season, and while it's not all the time, his batting certainly has come in clutch several times.

    Because the Athletics are struggling this season with pitching, giving them a player like Jovani Moran would give them another arm to fall back on. While The Twins are seemingly struggling with their bullpen, the pitchers there, given the ability to rest, can be effective for the team. Moran has a low ERA, and 13 strikeouts in his eight innings pitched. He hasn't been a massive contributor to the Twins’ bullpen and could easily be part of a package deal. 

    Adding one more starting pitcher to the rotation, along with getting their starters healthy, would be good for the Twins. Another option might come from Cincinnati, like Sonny Gray did. Or, maybe both?

    Tyler Mahle has had a tough season for the Reds. He is 2-5 with a 5.07 ERA in 13 starts. The starting pitcher has not impacted the Reds' losses or wins, and they are several years from competing, so Mahle (and Luis Castillo) should be available. The Twins could easily trade for Montas and Mahle and still have a solid chance at making the postseason. Mahle has gone strong in six innings in his most recent appearances with a .193 ERA and 24 strikeouts in 18 innings. Most of the Twins pitching staff are just now working up to pitching six innings, Chris Archer just recently pitched five. While the trade with the Reds would not be as costly as the trade with the Athletics, Mahle would still carry a high enough price that Twins fans would have to understand another significant asset from the organization would be a part of a trade. 

    Austin Martin is a great piece to make a trade. When acquired in the trade of Berríos, Martin was a top prospect and looked promising coming into the organization. Since arriving at the Twins, however, Martin’s trade value has declined some as his power has not yet developed in-game. He is not a bad player and is hitting .244 with a .366 OBP at Double-A Wichita. Like Gary Sánchez, a change of scenery may do him well. The Twins have plenty of depth at shortstop and can afford to part with Martin as part of a package deal with Noah Miller

    Noah Miller, a shortstop with the Ft. Myers Mighty Mussels, was a 2021 draftee in the first round (36th overall) from Ozaukee High School in Fredonia, Wisconsin. With a similar batting average to Martin, and since the Twins have Carlos Correa and Jermaine Palacios and hopefully Royce Lewis, who suffered a season-ending ACL tear will bounce back and get healthy. There wouldn't be any logistical reasoning to keep Miller and Martin as players in the system.

    Making these two pitching acquisitions would allow the Twins to bring on at least one or two more bullpen acquisitions or give a player like Jharel Cotton more growth opportunities. The bullpen would be more successful with a solid, healthy starting rotation. Forcing the bullpen to pitch as much as they have will end their season sooner than fans and the team want. With the offense as solid as it is, the organization and the fans deserve pitching that is just as solid.  Everyone is looking at Mahle and Montas, so the Twins and the fans need to be ready to wheel and deal. 

    What do you think the Twins should do about pitching? Are you willing to trade your favorite player? Who are other pitchers you think the Twins should look at getting before the deadline? 

     

     

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    Up the middle talent is always coveted by trading partners. Trading two, even for a starting pitcher, is not to be done lightly, especially since pitching prospects will also be part of the deal.

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    15 hours ago, High heat said:

    I don’t want to give up big future pieces for a starter.  
     

    wonder what Kyle Hendricks would cost?

     

    I feel the bullpen need more help then the starting staff, like 3 additional.  Bullpen has been taxed with a lot of inning thus far.

    Kyle Hendricks isn’t necessarily a bad option, but has struggled the past couple years, and I doubt the Twins want to eat 2 years and $28 million plus a $16 million buy-out of his contract

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    I agree the Twins should trade for Montas, but don’t throw away players you need. I think the Twins HAVE to hold on to Lewis, Miranda, Kirilloff, Moran, and Arraez. I think inevitably Austin Martin is the true top trade chip, try and trade off him and 3 other top prospects (I like Brayan Medina, Blayne Enlow, and Keoni Cavaco) to make the deal complete.

    The Twins should be in the market for 1 more back-end starter who will put up better numbers than Archer and Bundy but not break the budget (Drew Smyly, Wade Miley, Jordan Lyles, and Jake Odorizzi fit the mold) and then bolster up the Bullpen with 2-3 Relievers, probably 1 closer and 1-2 backup arms (Jorge Lopez, David Bednar, David Robertson, and Lou Trevino would close, while guys like Mychal Givens or Chris Stratton would be low-leverage fits) 

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    The Twins just need to look for who stands out and could be a trade chip. Martin and Balazovic could be high-end pieces, Noah Miller, Misael Urbina, and Brayan Medina have more uncertain futures and could compliment a trade well, and I honestly think the Twins should pass on 3-True outcome players like Matt Wallner and Aaron Sabato. Other players like Drew Strotman, Keoni Cavaco, Alerick Soularie, and Marco Raya could be the back-end of a trade and not lose much. The Twins have a lot prospects to trade with, and I can’t wait to see what they do.

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    8 hours ago, MTV said:

    Kyle Hendricks isn’t necessarily a bad option, but has struggled the past couple years, and I doubt the Twins want to eat 2 years and $28 million plus a $16 million buy-out of his contract

    I suggested it because he would likely only cost $. 
     

    25 million over the next yr and a half, he hasn’t been great but he is a control pitcher and would likely go well with th twins good defense compared to the Cubs terrible defense. 
     

    he adds you a veteran playoff experienced arm and I believe the Twins are still under budget.  

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    Bullpen guys need to be the trade targets---not starters once the season begins.  Bullpens dominate the playoffs, with the exception of maybe 15 starters that dominate in the MLB.

    SS prospects should make the best trade bait right now---but I am not opposed to trading Kiriloff.  I like his skill set, but the kind of injuries he has had are repetitive motion injuries and those seem to be recurring---and he has had several.  Wrist injuries are terrible for a hitter.  I can't help but feel he has the injury bug and will be out some decent portion of every season.  His injuries have to been from collision on bases or with a fence---they are from playing regularly.

    It may rub some people the wrong way to harp on injuries, but the reality is if a player cannot be on the field, they cannot help the team---and that has to be weighted as a factor in their overall performance score.

     

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    Perhaps this isn't the year to go all in.  I really don't know.  But contending just doesn't happen every year.  Look at 2021.  We need pitching and have needed it since winter.  Although a couple of good pieces were added, this pitching staff seems to be hanging by a thread.  Starting pitching is good amongst the top two or so but then a big dropoff.  Starters have to consistently get us through 6 innings.  The bullpen is average at best and will only wear down more due to overuse.  We need help if plan is to contend this year.  If not then I don't think we should give up much in prospects.  However, prospects are just that:. Prospects until they have proven themselves at the major league level .

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    First, I think the cost of getting Mantas will be pretty high.  He is not a HOF bound guy, but he is best out there and as we get closer to deadline there will be a team thinking he will make the difference of getting into playoffs.  My assessment is two fold for the NEED for upgrade at upgrading pitching.  

    First, are they needed to get us to the playoffs?  Then what kind of a difference will they make?  I do not think we need to upgrade to make the playoffs, provided our top end guys come back from injury soon.  Our pen will get us into the playoffs as well I believe.  

    Now when we make it, will they be that big of a difference maker? Some top guys can be, the most recent deadline trade I can think of that helped push a team to the ship was Houston 2017, who it looks like gave up basically at best bench players for him.  Great deal for Houston.  Johnny Cueto was traded to KC in 2015 and he helped in playoffs having 2 good games 1 okay game and 1 bad game.  Of note, during the regular season he had a stretch of 5 terrible games, but had about 5 great games too, However, beyond that I cannot find too many deadline deals that led to WS wins, and if you give up your full farm system you better end up with a ship, else it was a failure. 

    If the Twins feel Montas will be a big addition to next years rotation, which I do not feel he will be needed, then I would be okay with a deal, but if he is not needed to fill out the rotation I do not feel he is that much better than what we would march out there, and you never know what the playoffs will bring.  He could pitch 1 great game but never get another game, or he pitches several duds, or he could go on a mad bum like run and carry us to the ship.  You never know. 

     

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    2 minutes ago, Trov said:

    First, I think the cost of getting Mantas will be pretty high.  He is not a HOF bound guy, but he is best out there and as we get closer to deadline there will be a team thinking he will make the difference of getting into playoffs.  My assessment is two fold for the NEED for upgrade at upgrading pitching.  

    First, are they needed to get us to the playoffs?  Then what kind of a difference will they make?  I do not think we need to upgrade to make the playoffs, provided our top end guys come back from injury soon.  Our pen will get us into the playoffs as well I believe.  

    Now when we make it, will they be that big of a difference maker? Some top guys can be, the most recent deadline trade I can think of that helped push a team to the ship was Houston 2017, who it looks like gave up basically at best bench players for him.  Great deal for Houston.  Johnny Cueto was traded to KC in 2015 and he helped in playoffs having 2 good games 1 okay game and 1 bad game.  Of note, during the regular season he had a stretch of 5 terrible games, but had about 5 great games too, However, beyond that I cannot find too many deadline deals that led to WS wins, and if you give up your full farm system you better end up with a ship, else it was a failure. 

    If the Twins feel Montas will be a big addition to next years rotation, which I do not feel he will be needed, then I would be okay with a deal, but if he is not needed to fill out the rotation I do not feel he is that much better than what we would march out there, and you never know what the playoffs will bring.  He could pitch 1 great game but never get another game, or he pitches several duds, or he could go on a mad bum like run and carry us to the ship.  You never know. 

     

    Who are the 5 pitchers better than Montas next year (or this)? He's better (and healthier) than any Twins pitcher. 

    By the logic of the last sentence, you never trade for anyone at the deadline, I guess?

    Oakland also has two catchers playing better than Jeffers right now....and a RP or two.....if you really want to do a blockbuster.

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    Since when is Cody Stashak a starter, and is anyone really surprised that Jose Miranda is hitting home runs?

    Martin is a great piece for making a trade when his trade value is declining?

    No logistical reason for keeping (19 yo) Noah Miller in the system?

    What does acquiring Montas or Mahle have to do with giving Cotton more growth opportunities?

    A lot of this doesn't make any sense.

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    On 6/12/2022 at 11:20 PM, dxpavelka said:

    Can't see moving both Martin AND Miller.   Not with the uncertainty surrounding Correa and Lewis and the fact that Palacios will turn 26 in another month and hit only .208 in his first big league go around.

    Martin and Miller is a small price.  Miller is five years away and Martin is both bad and not a shortstop.  Oh, and there's a good chance Miller is never more than utility/backup.

    I don't even know who we're talking about, but if we get Montas for that, I'm happy.

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