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  • Would You Rather: Darvish or a Cobb/Lynn Combo?

    Tom Froemming

    By Tom Froemming

    It’s possible both Alex Cobb and Lance Lynn end up costing roughly the same amount combined as Yu Darvish all on his own. Add to the top or aim for depth? Which of those strategies would you prefer the Twins take when it comes to upgrading their rotation?

    Image courtesy of Jake Roth-USA TODAY Sports

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    I threw this idea out on Twitter last Friday. I figured it was possible a total investment of $120 million may be able to net a team Darvish alone or the combination of both Cobb and Lynn.

    https://twitter.com/BaseballByTom/status/954443473373007872?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E1

    The poll got 432 votes and ended up as a 50/50 split, so I thought it was worth revisiting here. I'll let you all break the tie.

    It's worth noting that since the length of the deals being different, the annual average values didn’t match perfectly. Darvish at five years, $120 million would cost $24 million per season. Cobb and Lynn both at four years, $60 million works out to a total of $30 million a year.

    There were people on Twitter shocked with the results on both sides. Some thought it was obvious the Cobb/Lynn duo was best because of insurance. They were a little worried about putting all their eggs in one basket. Another argument from that side was extra depth made it more likely the Twins could win the AL Central, as opposed to competing for the Wild Card again. This crowd also seemed less trusting of Kyle Gibson and Adalberto Mejia.

    The pro Darvish crowd was mainly preaching the importance of adding a true top of the rotation starter. But there were a few people who also made the case that adding two middle of the rotation guys would be unnecessary due to Trevor May’s return and the emergence of guys like Stephen Gonsalves, Fernando Romero and Zack Littell. Personally, going all in for Darvish is the option I'd prefer for that exact reason.

    For what it’s worth, Mike Berardino of the Pioneer Press sent out a couple Tweets earlier today relevant to this discussion:

    https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino/status/955846806235205633?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E1

    So it seems like the Twins aren't willing to go much beyond the $120 million I threw out there for Darvish ...

    https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino/status/955847872683048961?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E1

    ... and it doesn't sound like they'll go nuts for either of those two. MLB Trade Rumors noted that Cobb has already lowered his asking price from $100 million down to $70 million.

    This was just me spitballing some numbers, so it’s entirely possible that none of those three pitchers sign for anything close to the deals I threw out there, but just play along and let me know which of those two options you’d prefer.

    Follow Tom Froemming on Twitter: TFTwins

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    Featured Comments

    Tom Froemming

    Tom Froemming 9,895

  • Twins Daily Staff

    • Posted

     

    I'd rather have Darvish and keep my two draft picks.

    That's definitely part of the factor, but under the new system the Twins would lose their third and fourth picks. In the 2018 Draft, that would be their "Competitive Balance Round B" pick (No. 75 overall) and their third-round pick (No 94).

     

    There will certainly be talented players available in those spots, but the Twins have a very deep system right now, and are in a good position to lose picks for the right players. Not saying Cobb and Lynn are those guys, just saying. 

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    Lee-The-Twins-Fan

    Lee-The-Twins-Fan 261

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

    I suspect we won't get Darvish. He'll likely sign for 6 years and $160 million. The Cubs seem to really want him. They have the money, too.  I just don't see the Twins going that high. And they probably shouldn't.

     

    If we can't get Darvish, we should try for Arrieta. four years and $98 million.

     

    I don't consider Lance and Cobb to be worth the draft picks for each. Arrieta is.

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    Twodogs

    Twodogs 1,311

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    IDK, on one hand Darvish is more of a true Ace however, he hasn't pitched 200 innings in a season since 2013. So I might lean, if all costs are the same towards the package of Lynn and Cobb. Now think about it, Lynn started 33 games year one after TJ, so he looks to be fairly durable, Cobb to me has a weird throwing motion, but in combination the two would bolster the 5 man rotation to very tough for the long haul of a season. Then if in the running the Twins could do some trade deadline deal for an Ace like Houston did this year with Verlander. They could even use one of Cobb or Lynn as trade bait for that one Ace to put them over the top?? What I'm saying is that two birds in the hand might, in the long run, be worth more than one in the bush

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    Darius

    Darius 2,741

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    It's not even a question. Of course Darvish makes you a better baseball team than Cobb and Lynn. What other goal is there?

     

    A frontline to starter to slip in front of Santana and Berrios in the rotation makes this team a legit contender. Cobb and Lynn don't do that.

     

    In the end, this is along the lines of me trying to decide whether I'd rather marry Katy Perry or Beyoncé. Sure if fun to think about, but no way is it actually going to happen in any of the infinite parallel universes.

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    gil4

    gil4 2,525

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    I'd rather have Darvish and keep my two draft picks.

    What would your answer be if it was Cobb/Lynn at 4/$48M + $12M in achievable incentives (say, $3M/yr for 100+ innings)?

     

    My understanding is the $50M threshold to lose a draft pick only counts guaranteed money. When I read that, I was curious about the fine print to see how far the non-guaranteed envelope could be pushed. I could see some team offering pitcher like Darvish (except subject to the draft pick loss)  offering a 5/$49M contract plus a $71M bonus (paid over 5 years) for throwing at least 1 pitch at any time during the contract. 

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    Tom Froemming

    Tom Froemming 9,895

  • Twins Daily Staff

    • Posted

     

    My understanding is the $50M threshold to lose a draft pick only counts guaranteed money. When I read that, I was curious about the fine print to see how far the non-guaranteed envelope could be pushed.

    I don't believe that $50 million mark has anything to do with the team signing the player, but this system is brand new and I could be wrong.

     

    I think that mark comes into play in regard to what the team the player is departing from receives. If Cobb/Lynn sign for more than $50 million, the Rays and Cards will get a better compensation pick.

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    rv78

    rv78 1,600

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    If Darvish won't sign w the Twins I wouldn't want any starting pitcher. Would rather roll w Gonslaves or Romero or Pinada at mid season and hope the bullpen can carry the 1st part of the season

    I would tend to agree with this as well. Pineda won't be ready mid-season. I wouldn't break the bank for Darvish. He's just not a stud pitcher. Only threw more than 200 Innings just once in his career and gives up his share of gopher balls. Yes, he has better career WHIP and ERA than Cobb or Lynn but I think he's just going to cost too much and throw in the draft picks and he really starts to get expensive.

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    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 26,755

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    Cobb and Lynn can't get this team out of the WC round, so pass, I'd rather not sign anyone and work on trades instead. This team has to stop taking half measures.

     

    And if this team was never going to give $150M for Darvish, what was with all the big talk early on? They had to know that's what it would take.

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    MangLitch

    MangLitch 193

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I’m not the smartest “Baseball Guy” but it seems the duo is an average way of plugging up some rotation spots for 4 years. I get they can be traded, but the disaster scenario where they both are sub-par and act to block the way of the young guns just scares me.

     

    Personally, I go Darvish. If you can’t get him, roll with what you got and maybe add a wild card signing to compete. I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves to say we are in win now mode rather than win over the next five years mode.

     

    Crazy Mitch Brain Scenario:

     

    Roll out what we have and see what Gonzo and Romero do first 2 months of the year. If they have what it takes, give them a shot. If not, plenty of assets to go pop the trade market and grab what you need for the push. This gives us the ability to see what we have, flexibility to extend/sign who we have and then make the decision when we have a feeling on the season.

     

    I think we still are in 3-5 year plan mode. I don’t see our young core at the point where we have to capitalize now or we miss it. Let’s ride this young wave and leave doors open. Could you imagine have 3 Hughes type contracts sucking up valuable payroll when the young guys are better (I get it, worst case scenario) To me, I work to avoid this before taking a big risk.

     

    Long story short......

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    h2oface

    h2oface 7,066

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    I would rather just have Cobb. My bet, Lynn is cooked (300 more innings than Cobb), Arrieta had his short peak, and Darvish will be the most regrettable contract of them all. I could care less about one draft pick. (Can you say Kohl Stewart? Or Alex Wimmer, or Levi Michael?) I bet Cobb will be the best pitcher of the bunch for the next 5 years. Darvish would be fine, I just think it would be only valuable for 2 years.

    Edited by h2oface
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    Richie the Rally Goat

    Richie the Rally Goat 9,100

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    What would your answer be if it was Cobb/Lynn at 4/$48M + $12M in achievable incentives (say, $3M/yr for 100+ innings)?

     

    My understanding is the $50M threshold to lose a draft pick only counts guaranteed money. When I read that, I was curious about the fine print to see how far the non-guaranteed envelope could be pushed. I could see some team offering pitcher like Darvish (except subject to the draft pick loss) offering a 5/$49M contract plus a $71M bonus (paid over 5 years) for throwing at least 1 pitch at any time during the contract.

    signing amount affects the comp pick going to the team who lost the player. It does not affect the team signing said player.

     

    This strategy would be great if the teams affected were the Yankees and Dodgers! Im less excited to thumb my nose at St Louis or Tampa Bay.

     

     

     

    I’m in the Darvish or trade mode. Arrieta is just so risky, Cobb and Lynn aren’t that much better than the Nolasco types, which is to say Gibson and Mejia already fit that mold.... somewhat anyways.... maybe Levine finds that improvement internally with Gonsalves, Romero or May.

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    Twodogs

    Twodogs 1,311

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Romero and Gonsalves will most likely be on an innings limit this year, not ideal for a team trying to make a playoff push. IMO. Plus if we make a trade for a pitcher like Archer Gonsalves and Romero would probably be a part of the deal??

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    Tomj14

    Tomj14 1,146

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    I would rather just have Cobb.

    My first would be to trade for a pitcher.

    Second would be Cobb is you could get him for 4/60 (which I don't think you can)

    Third Davish

    If Cobb and Lynn are a combo I would pass.  Getting both tells me the Front Office doesn't really see Gonzo or Romero helping this year.

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