Tyler Jay and Baseball's Evolving Bullpen

Miller and Chapman are a couple of the most talented pitchers in the game. They are both physical specimens (Miller 6'7", Chapman 6'4", both 215-220). Both can hit triple digits (debatable on Miller, maybe absolutely topping out, but he can get high 90s).

Comparing a 6'1", 190 lb (soaking) guy who hopes to "play up" to the mid 90s in the pen, because he's a lefty drafted in the top 10, to arguably the two best fireballing relievers in the world right now, is a stretch at its absolute finest.

"During last year's postseason fans saw the importance of dominant relief pitchers like Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman."

This was on teams with actual starting pitching. The current Twins do not have anywhere near playoff starting pitching.

There is a reason that the Yankees traded the relief assets they did last year for young talent....they did not have the starting pitching to win that year, therefore making the elite relief superfluous  (and they could just sign them back if they wanted

Again....Jay to the bullpen may indeed allow the twins to get the most out of him.

But the pick at #6 for a relief pitcher will remain a disappointment no matter how many times we spin in circles.

(And I dost think that we are getting a wee bit ahead of ourselves to think that transitioning Jay to the pen automatically equates to a top 5 MLB reliever.

 

But the pick at #6 for a relief pitcher will remain a disappointment no matter how many times we spin in circles.

So, who did the Twins pass on that was drafted later -- besides Benintendi -- who is that lock of an Ace starting pitcher?

Tired of hearing about Benintendi. So tired. How many teams passed on him before Boston selected him? This the Trout arguement all over again. "If only we knew...", well...you didn't. The MLB draft draft is the biggest crap shoot in all of sports. The Twins needed pitching. They went and did something we have never seen them do in recent memory, and often complained about, they drafted a top arm with projectability. That guy was Jay. In a reportedly weak draft, they went after a big, projectable LH arm they thought they could work with and develop. At worst, they had a LH arm that projected to being great in the pen. You draft for both need and BPA don't you?

I'm relatively certain...please correct me if I'm wrong...that the Twins would have drafted a front line, ACE SP or future all star position player at this spot were it made known to them.

We can certainly disagree whether or not Jay should be removed, at this point, from developing his talents as a SP. And I believe there is an arguement to be made there. But I'm tired of hearing the wasted draft pick debate. Baseball HAS changed and evolved over the years, very slowly. WAY gone are 4 man pitching staffs and a collection of 200 IP rotations. And at the end of the day, the best chance you have to win is with quality SP. But in my 40+ years of following the Twins specifically and MLB in general, I've seen winning teams based on power, speed, defense, SP, RP and combinations of such.

The new regime has decided that Jay can have the biggest impact going forward being a top RP. Fine. Didn't the Twins in the past, and the Royals recently, reach the WS with a couple of top starters and deep bullpen? Just saying...a lot of ways to build a winning team.

"The Fast Track" is the verbiage used by Twins management last week.  And I agree.  If this means Jay will be the 1st call in from the bullpen and can get 2-3 innings in, I like it.  Some/many teams use that format to stretch out RP's and turn them into SP's.  Sorry, Cardinals are the only team I can think of just now.  I was actually hoping the Twins would have done the same thing with Berrios, but he chose the WBC over SP with the Twins.  I'm not criticizing the choice.  I just think it would have been better for his career to be in Spring Training. 

P.S.  Jay still needs to get a reliable 3rd pitch....

Their weights and heights notwithstanding, Miller and Chapman are excellent comps.  Miller has been covered.  Chapman, though--maybe I misremember, but didn't the Reds kind of do the same things?  Half-heartedly try to make him a starter, and then fast track him in the pen?

I'll bet there are even articles out there that say the Red's wasted (did not maximize value) the big signing bonus they gave Chapman.

I'm a hundred percent behind the move, and about 75% behind the original pick.  Nailing that 'ace' pick is not easy.  Just ask those six teams that passed on Kershaw.

Tired of hearing about Benintendi. So tired. How many teams passed on him before Boston selected him? This the Trout arguement all over again. "If only we knew...", well...you didn't. The MLB draft draft is the biggest crap shoot in all of sports. The Twins needed pitching. They went and did something we have never seen them do in recent memory, and often complained about, they drafted a top arm with projectability. That guy was Jay. In a reportedly weak draft, they went after a big, projectable LH arm they thought they could work with and develop. At worst, they had a LH arm that projected to being great in the pen. You draft for both need and BPA don't you?

I'm relatively certain...please correct me if I'm wrong...that the Twins would have drafted a front line, ACE SP or future all star position player at this spot were it made known to them.

We can certainly disagree whether or not Jay should be removed, at this point, from developing his talents as a SP. And I believe there is an arguement to be made there. But I'm tired of hearing the wasted draft pick debate. Baseball HAS changed and evolved over the years, very slowly. WAY gone are 4 man pitching staffs and a collection of 200 IP rotations. And at the end of the day, the best chance you have to win is with quality SP. But in my 40+ years of following the Twins specifically and MLB in general, I've seen winning teams based on power, speed, defense, SP, RP and combinations of such.

The new regime has decided that Jay can have the biggest impact going forward being a top RP. Fine. Didn't the Twins in the past, and the Royals recently, reach the WS with a couple of top starters and deep bullpen? Just saying...a lot of ways to build a winning team.

You're going to hear about Benintendi forever because the Twins passed on him for a guy who is going to be a reliever. And you will continue to hear about Benintendi until Tyler Jay distinguishes himself in the Major Leagues. 

As for "how many other teams" passed on him -- yes, five other teams passed on him. But the top two draft picks that year were Dansby Swanson and Alex Bregman, both of whom are among the top prospects in the game at the moment. 

Of the others, only Dillon Tate has so far been a bust in the minors. Everybody else is at least considered at top 35 prospect at the moment.

In 2014, the Twins passed on Trea Turner for Nick Gordon, but nobody harps on that because Nick Gordon is still considered a solid prospect. If Tyler Jay was still considered among the better 50 or so prospects in baseball, you would hear a LOT less about it.

I know it was the previous regime. So at this point it is simply a reminder of what that regime did wrong.

I guess I'd be curious to hear if people really think that bullpens are changing much in baseball. 

 

The biggest change is teams are starting to focus more on the mid inning guys than the closers.  Closers still get headlines but 7-8 inning guys are getting more dollars, more notice and more situational.   

But let me agree with sentiment that comparing Jay to Milelr is silly. Jay could be a decent reliever, but to expect him to be the best in the game?  Why?

I guess I'd be curious to hear if people really think that bullpens are changing much in baseball. 

 

I mean, the idea of starters going more than 6 innings often was done several years ago. 

 

I would 100% agree that the role of bullpens have changed markedly in the playoffs, but obviously using the top guys as much as they did in the playoffs last year is not even close to feasible during the season. I will also be curious to see how Chapman and Miller perform in 2017 after their usage in the 2016 playoffs, especially Miller. 

I agree with you Seth, the changes in Bullpen use in the season have already happened with the KC demonstration that a set of relievers can save a team from a set of poor starters, but the use that Miller had in the Series is a playoff only situation.  He was quoted in Sports Illustrated that he won't be used during the season like he was in post season because any reliever would burn out like that.

What we need baseball to do is revise the SAVE RULE AGAIN because arbitration and salaries are based on that.  Instead we need to see the save as the reliever who comes in with bases loaded and no outs and stops the bleeding right there (extreme case) regardless of the inning.  

I am still sorry to see Jay in relief and I read into this that the Twins are still committed to the old guard filling the rotation so the bullpen is the only option.