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  • Twins Trade Nolasco, Meyer, Cash To Angels For Hector Santiago

    Seth Stohs

    By Seth Stohs

    The Minnesota Twins reached an agreement with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim minutes before today’s non-waiver trade deadline. The Twins sent right-handed pitchers Ricky Nolasco and Alex Meyer to the Angels in exchange for left-hander Hector Santiago and minor league right-hander Alan Busenitz.

    Image courtesy of Richard Mackson, USA Today

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    Twins fans have to be impressed that interim GM Rob Antony was able to find a taker for the frustrating Nolasco and the approximately $18-20 million remaining on his four year-$49 million contract. Nolasco threw a strong eight inning in his start over the weekend, maybe giving the Angels reason to think that he has turned a corner, or that they can get him back to his former self.

    Alex Meyer came to the Twins in the Denard Span trade from the Nationals. He was considered a top pitching prospect at the time because of a power fastball. He showed his potential at times, but he also found himself out with shoulder issues a few times. He made two relief appearances last year with the Twins. He also made one start for the team in early May. He hasn’t pitched in a game since due to a shoulder issue.

    Santiago, 28, has played for both the White Sox and the Angels. This season, he is 10-4 with a 4.25 ERA and a 5.03 FIP. He has struck out about 8.0 per nine innings, but has also walked about 4.3 per nine innings. The southpaw has a 3.68 career ERA and one more year left of arbitration. He should immediately take Nolasco’s spot in the rotation.

    Finally, the Twins acquired Alan Busenitz in the deal. He was the Angels 25th-round pick in 2013 out of Kennesaw State. He will turn 26 years old later this month. He began the season with 24 appearances out of the bullpen in AA Arkansas where he posted a 1.93 ERA, a 1.04 WHIP and 8.8 K/9. He recently moved up to AAA Salt Lake and has a 9.00 ERA in 13 innings. He does have 13 strikeouts in the Pacific Coast League. He should report to Rochester.

    Rhett Bollinger is reporting that the Twins will pay Ricky Nolasco for the rest of this season. The Angels will pay Hector Santiago for the rest of this year. The Twins are also sending $4 million to the Angels next year to help them pay Nolasco.

    As the trade deadline has passed, Ervin Santana, Kurt Suzuki and Brandon Kintzler all remain on the Twins roster. They, and others, can still be traded in August, but it would require waiver-clearing, etc.

    Seth Stohs has been blogging about the Minnesota Twins since May 2003. A founder and owner of Twins Daily, Seth has been a Twins fan for 40 years and has a passion for covering the minor leagues and prospects.
    Follow Seth Stohs on Twitter: sethtweets

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    Good thing they traded for a reliever with six years of control then I guess.

     

    Busenitz also has more options left than Meyer. Even without the Nolasco/Santiago components, it's still a push at worst under these standards.

    I really question any analysis that suggests Busenitz is the equivalent of Meyer.

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    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 26,755

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    I really question any analysis that suggests Busenitz is the equivalent of Meyer.

    Well the concern replied to was giving up a reliever with 6 years of control.

     

    But honestly, I was as big of a Meyer believer as anyone, even going into this year. I'm out though. Another forgettable season, this one due to an ominous shoulder issue that has kept him out nearly all year? No regrets. Yeah, at this point I'd take Busenitz straight up for Meyer.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    It's true if your argument for Meyer's value is limited to team control.

    I don't think anyone was limiting the argument fot Meyer solely to team control? I am not sure what the point of that would be.

     

    He is an interesting prospect / lotto ticket with 6 years control. Busenitz and a million other players also have team control, but they are not necessarily Meyer's equal in terms of interesting prospect / lotto ticket.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted (edited)

     

    I don't think anyone was limiting the argument fot Meyer solely to team control? I am not sure what the point of that would be.

     

    Right there with you.  What is the point of that?  Because what was said above is that 6 years of team control is valuable and that's what the Angels traded for.

     

    I guess, if their spit in the wind hope that he'll ever be anything other than a chronically injured, erratic player ever reverses, than that could be a relevant point.  It's just unlikely because A) his chronic injuries have frequently involved his shoulder (pretty much the worst thing you could have as a pitcher) and he'll be 27 by the time next season starts.

     

    I understand not liking Santiago.  But let's be honest about who Alex Meyer is as of August 2016.  So, yeah, "6 years of team control" is about the most valuable thing you can say about him at this point.  And it's a terrible argument.

    Edited by TheLeviathan
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    TheTruth

    TheTruth 15

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

    Baltimore had a 26 year old  pitcher that rocked a 6.20 ERA with the big club. Also split time in AAA. The following year split time between AAA and 2 MLB teams. As a 28 year old was sent down to A+ and AA before finally settling in with his new team, the Chicago Cubs.

     

    The odds are Meyer won't become anything. To say for sure that he won't ? Well you can't, because you don't know. He has always been an intriguing prospect. There was no reason not to wait it out a couple of more years. He is cheap, and isn't blocking anyone.

     

     

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    Mike Sixel

    Mike Sixel 41,021

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    Baltimore had a 26 year old  pitcher that rocked a 6.20 ERA with the big club. Also split time in AAA. The following year split time between AAA and 2 MLB teams. As a 28 year old was sent down to A+ and AA before finally settling in with his new team, the Chicago Cubs.

     

    The odds are Meyer won't become anything. To say for sure that he won't ? Well you can't, because you don't know. He has always been an intriguing prospect. There was no reason not to wait it out a couple of more years. He is cheap, and isn't blocking anyone.

     

    Well, you would have carried him on the MLB roster next year, or do you think no team would claim him / sign him? 

     

    And, they basically sold him for around $6-8MM, assuming they don't tender Santiago. Is that a fair price?

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

     

    I understand not liking Santiago. But let's be honest about who Alex Meyer is as of August 2016.  So, yeah, "6 years of team control" is about the most valuable thing you can say about him at this point.  And it's a terrible argument.

    I understand not liking Meyer's chances.  But let's be honest that he still has a lot more performance potential than Alan Busenitz, has thus far avoided surgery, and hasn't yet had a chance to fail in MLB.  (For that matter, his shoulder also has yet to fail outside the context of the Twins treatment and program for him, which might color our current perceptions of his health, so I'd caution against going to extreme judgements on that front quite yet.)

     

    I have to imagine we could have sold Meyer for a few million bucks to any number of teams, if we hadn't used him to inject a few million of value into this trade instead.  He's still far from a sure thing, but his potential still has some value.  Like Nolasco, he was going nowhere fast in this organization so it's not unreasonable to ship him out, even if I wouldn't have done it (I think leaving him for the new head of baseball ops might have been prudent).

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

     

    He does? Dang, then I like the trade less than I did....still don't hate it like some do, but now I am even more "meh" than I was before.

    Yes.  Meyer was added to the 40-man roster after 2014, so he was optioned in only 2015 and 2016 so far.

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    ashbury

    ashbury 48,546

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    I looked up the game log. 3 strikeouts, 1 hit, in one inning of work in Arizona rookie league. But.... look closer:

     

    AZL Giants Bottom of the 1st

        Mikey Edie reaches on a fielding error by first baseman Gabriel Santana.

        Jose Layer singles on a ground ball to right fielder John Schuknecht. Mikey Edie to 2nd.

        With Nick Hill batting, passed ball by Keinner Pina, Mikey Edie to 3rd. Jose Layer to 2nd.

        Nick Hill strikes out swinging.

        Sandro Fabian strikes out swinging, catcher Keinner Pina to first baseman Gabriel Santana.

        Michael Bernal called out on strikes.

     

    Oy.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I understand not liking Meyer's chances.  But let's be honest that he still has a lot more performance potential than Alan Busenitz

     

    Sure.  But if the argument is (and it was) that they traded for cost controlled service time, Busenitz and Meyer are equal.  

     

    There is slightly more potential in Meyer, but it's mostly shadows of what once was.  Based on what he's actually done we should probably just bury that potential and stop pretending it's still around.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    There is slightly more potential in Meyer, but it's mostly shadows of what once was. Based on what he's actually done we should probably just bury that potential and stop pretending it's still around.

    I hope that is not an attitude shared by our next head of baseball ops. If the Twins could basically spend a couple million and a 40-man roster spot for a year and a half chance to get some other organization's Meyer on the right track, I sure hope we'd take that chance.

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    sthpstm

    sthpstm 220

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    When I read articles of this trade from the Angels perspective and their expectations of Meyer, and combine that with questions about how legitimate his injury was, I can't help but wonder if Meyer was sitting out while Boras demanded a trade. I'm a cynic, I know.

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    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 17,473

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I hope that is not an attitude shared by our next head of baseball ops. If the Twins could basically spend a couple million and a 40-man roster spot for a year and a half chance to get some other organization's Meyer on the right track, I sure hope we'd take that chance.

     

    Someone else's?  Sure.  That wasn't happening here, for good or bad.  And some new FO was going to magically get him re-aligned either.  

     

    Not to mention, Meyer has long been more about hype than production.  If we're going to grab someone else's reclamation project I sure as hell hope they've been more productive players.  I want to help guys figure it out, not rebuild them Bionic Man style at age 27.

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    jimmer

    jimmer 9,961

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    Twins are 29th in defense in regards to defensive runs saved (-51).  At least we aren't 30th...

     

    If errors and/or fielding % are your defensive stats of choice, also 29th in both.

    Edited by jimmer
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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    Someone else's? Sure. That wasn't happening here, for good or bad. And some new FO was going to magically get him re-aligned either.

     

    Not to mention, Meyer has long been more about hype than production. If we're going to grab someone else's reclamation project I sure as hell hope they've been more productive players. I want to help guys figure it out, not rebuild them Bionic Man style at age 27.

    In the universe of baseball prospects, Meyer is nowhere the leaders in hype/production differential. He obviously wasn't perfect, but Meyer really did produce through 2014. And he hasn't really failed on the field yet outside 8 starts at AAA in 2015, sandwiched around much better results at the same level.

     

    No guarantee they would get him on the right track, but Meyer is absolutely someone I wanted a new front office (and potentially new field staff, etc.) to be able to evaluate through 2017, more so than giving the new front office an $8 mil option for 2017 on Hector Santiago.

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    Hosken Bombo Disco

    Hosken Bombo Disco 15,870

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    I've been meh on it from the outset. It wasn't a bad trade by any means but I didn't understand the accolades given it, either.

    The accolades come from:

     

    1. Freeing Nolasco

    2. Cost savings on Santiago let loose after 2016

    3. Going along with the idea that Meyer might have chronic shoulder problems

     

    If neither of the last two end up true, then any love for this trade needs to be reconsidered.

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    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,320

  • Community Leader

    • Posted

    When I read articles of this trade from the Angels perspective and their expectations of Meyer, and combine that with questions about how legitimate his injury was, I can't help but wonder if Meyer was sitting out while Boras demanded a trade. I'm a cynic, I know.

    I doubt it. If anything, the Twins may have been extra cautious with him in an effort to hold off surgery until they could trade him.

     

    I do wonder if he will get back any service time for his DL stint. Not that it should matter much to Meyer's value either way.

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    Mike Sixel

    Mike Sixel 41,021

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    If Meyer comes back fast, and is great fast...then I have to wonder about the Twins' minor and major league coaching. If takes 2-3 years, or never happens, well, then whatevs.*

     

    *yes, I posted whatevs, sue me

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