Twins Designate Oswaldo Arcia

Well, in defense of Arcia, he and Vargas should've been the DH candidates this year (and maybe a tad of Sano). But, nooooooo. The Twins, actually, seemed to be surprised that they won the bidding for Park, coming in at the minimum and everyone else passed, so they were stuck, especially when Park did sign a favorable contract to play major league ball. not that this is bad, but WHAT WAS THE PLAN.

And so looking forward to the next guys coming of the DL. Soon to be, an outfield of Grossman, Santana and Sano with Mastro as the backup and BOTH Kepler and Buxton down at AAA. Maybe the time spent there will make them even better.

And admidst all this, we do lose Arcia. We will lose Vargas. We get nothing back in exchange? Okay, maybe a waiver wire claim wash, eh?

Ryan apparently has/had determined that Vargas, Arcia, ABW, et al were not going to cut it at DH. But then Hunter saved the team the embarrassment of signing a 41 year old OF on a rebuilding team. What if he had not? I think that you would have seen the Sano Experiment anyway. Remember, they did not want Sano DH'ng full time. A rare agreement between me and Ryan. I imagine the story line would have been the legendary Twins OF'er mentoring Sano to replace him whilst splitting time between RF and DH. If Ryan didn't trade Plouffe in the current situation, he sure would not of if Hunter came back. Torri screwed this all up by retiring, and Ryan saw Park as likely both a lottery ticket he could bid on, and while unlikely to succeed, have the annual "we were in it to the end on the guy" presser. Sadly for the Twins we got our man. This whole thing is like a house of cards that collapsed. But what was the first card pulled? It almost has to be that Ryan really believed in 2015. All the decisions made seem to point to that. I waffle on the BP decision, but remember, TR always thinks he can simply dig around in the dumpster and bring in uncovered jewels for the pen. It's never been a visible priority. Arcia is yet another casualty in this collapse. Ryan cannot bring himself to admit this just needs to be trashed and start with a fresh slate. That the core veterans on this team have been the genisis for years of lost baseball and cannot carry a team anywhere near success. His actions suggest that Dozier, Plouffe, Park and the elite pitching staff will return for another year, as this was simply a blip. Look how well we did in ST. That's the real ceiling for this team!

This whole fiasco has flipped me to the point of view that TR should be replaced as soon as ownership can identify a satisfactory replacement.

Didn't you mean "a satisfactory in-house replacement"?

Ryan apparently has/had determined that Vargas, Arcia, ABW, et al were not going to cut it at DH. But then Hunter saved the team the embarrassment of signing a 41 year old OF on a rebuilding team. What if he had not? I think that you would have seen the Sano Experiment anyway. Remember, they did not want Sano DH'ng full time. A rare agreement between me and Ryan. I imagine the story line would have been the legendary Twins OF'er mentoring Sano to replace him whilst splitting time between RF and DH. If Ryan didn't trade Plouffe in the current situation, he sure would not of if Hunter came back. Torri screwed this all up by retiring, and Ryan saw Park as likely both a lottery ticket he could bid on, and while unlikely to succeed, have the annual "we were in it to the end on the guy" presser. Sadly for the Twins we got our man. This whole thing is like a house of cards that collapsed. But what was the first card pulled? It almost has to be that Ryan really believed in 2015. All the decisions made seem to point to that. I waffle on the BP decision, but remember, TR always thinks he can simply dig around in the dumpster and bring in uncovered jewels for the pen. It's never been a visible priority. Arcia is yet another casualty in this collapse. Ryan cannot bring himself to admit this just needs to be trashed and start with a fresh slate. That the core veterans on this team have been the genisis for years of lost baseball and cannot carry a team anywhere near success. His actions suggest that Dozier, Plouffe, Park and the elite pitching staff will return for another year, as this was simply a blip. Look how well we did in ST. That's the real ceiling for this team!

Vargas, Arcia, ABW<  What in 2015 would convince you they were locks to be major league players?

Trade what for a relief pitcher you would be proud of?  Sign one? How many of the 50 FA are any good this year. Crap shoot.

Thinking that someone bases anything off spring training records  is a great strawman argument. A player may have a good spring, but not very many fans believe

I think any trade will involve cash considerations in return.

The only hope is that someone puts in a claim forcing a team with a lower priority to make a trade. It will likely mean a little more cash like the Paredes deal after being DFA'd. Extra cash doesn't help much closing out ball games.

Federowicz is interesting. For some reason the Red Sox, Dodgers, Padres and Cubs have all had him in their organizations without giving him a significant shot at the majors. The bar is pretty low for the Twins. He might get more opportunity.

In Paredes case, the Phillies made the trade to circumvent an anticipated waiver claim according to MLBTR.

A team may do the same in acquiring Arcia. The best return is likely cash. If no trade occurs, there is very little interest.

Winning seasons/seasons managed since 2010:

 

Molitor - 1/1

 

Gardenhire - 0/4

 

Sooooo... Nope.

Career Winning %:

Molitor:  .448

Gardy:  .507

Just sayin

I don't think that's how it works...I'm pretty sure the Twins have 7 days to place him on waivers, they can try to trade him in the meantime.

If in a few years time between Santana and Arcia one does little and the other does less the move and angst becomes over nothing.

Career Winning %:

Molitor:  .448

Gardy:  .507

 

Just sayin

How many MLB managers with 4 consecutive 90-loss seasons get a chance to manage ANY team again, let alone the one with which they amassed nearly 400 losses in less than half a decade?

Gardenhire returns if 1.) Molitor loses control of the team. AND  2.) Ryan doesn't want an interim manager to come from within.  AND  3) Pohlad doesn't want Ryan to select a manager on more than an interim basis because Ryan is gone at the end of the season.

In other words, Gardenhire, his 82 win regular season average, and historically bad postseason record aren't coming back.

Great pot stirrer topic, though. How about a thread? Don't forget to bring up the idea of Gardy bringing back Ullger!

How many MLB managers with 4 consecutive 90-loss seasons get a chance to manage ANY team again, let alone the one with which they amassed nearly 400 losses in less than half a decade?

 

Gardenhire returns if 1.) Molitor loses control of the team. AND  2.) Ryan doesn't want an interim manager to come from within.  AND  3) Pohlad doesn't want Ryan to select a manager on more than an interim basis because Ryan is gone at the end of the season.

 

In other words, Gardenhire, his 82 win regular season average, and historically bad postseason record aren't coming back.

 

Great pot stirrer topic, though. How about a thread? Don't forget to bring up the idea of Gardy bringing back Ullger!

First of all I wasn't advocating bringing him back, merely pointing out that getting rid of him was not quite the panacea so many wanted to believe it was.  As to your leading question I'll start the answer session with Tom Kelly 1997-2000.  The team improved in 2001 as I believe this team was bound to do in 2015 regardless of whether Gardy or Molitor was calling the shots.  We'll never know that.  And, yes, I realize TK had the cache that comes from winning 2 World Series rings to get another year beyond 4 straight 90 loss campaigns.  But take away those 2 seasons, which a strong argument could be made for both being the result of brilliant moves by Andy McPhail (Gladden, Reardon, Morris, Chili Davis) in the off-seasons preceding them, and quite a bit of the bloom comes off TK's rose.

First of all I wasn't advocating bringing him back, merely pointing out that getting rid of him was not quite the panacea so many wanted to believe it was.  As to your leading question I'll start the answer session with Tom Kelly 1997-2000.  The team improved in 2001 as I believe this team was bound to do in 2015 regardless of whether Gardy or Molitor was calling the shots.  We'll never know that.  And, yes, I realize TK had the cache that comes from winning 2 World Series rings to get another year beyond 4 straight 90 loss campaigns.  But take away those 2 seasons, which a strong argument could be made for both being the result of brilliant moves by Andy McPhail (Gladden, Reardon, Morris, Chili Davis) in the off-seasons preceding them, and quite a bit of the bloom comes off TK's rose.

Since World War II, there have been only two ways to keep your MLB manager job after just three consecutive 90 loss seasons: work for an expansion team, or work for Terry Ryan.  Gardenhire was let go after four clunkers because even the Twins eventually needed to hold someone accountable for a terrible product.

And you're right, we'll never know how the 2015 Twins would have performed with Gardy managing, but the point is that NO team would know, because as a matter of unerring historical trend they would have fired him after 2013.

Molitor has been an enigma and an occasional source of consternation (bunt-o-rama offense, 'Wheel of Misfortune' bullpen) in his brief tenure, but i can't imagine how anyone could be so put off by him that they would miss a guy who any other team in baseball would have canned a year before the Twins did.

When I think of Gardenhire, I think of a good yet frequently exasperating .500 manager who lost to the Yankees in the playoffs a lot and then lost to everyone in the regular season a lot.  Time will tell how Molitor is remembered, but my bet is that it won't be as 'the guy the Twins should have never hired instead of keeping Gardenhire'.