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  • Total Support: Why Jim Pohlad's Unsatisfying Comments May Be Wise


    Daniel Wade

    For the Twins to make a serious run at a division title in 2016 with the roster they had leaving Ft. Myers, a whole lot had to break right. Byron Buxton needed to take a big step forward at the plate, Joe Mauer needed to return to his old form, Phil Hughes needed to make 2016 look more like 2014 than 2015, Byung-Ho Park needed to hit the ground running, Glen Perkins needed to come back healthy, and about a half-dozen other things had to fall into place. Very little of it was outlandish in and of itself, but like predicting 10 flips of a coin, the sheer number of correct outcomes needed was what made the task so daunting.

    Some of them happened: Mauer had as good an April as he has had since 2010 and while Park was uneven in his first 10 games, he then hit .326/.375/.767 with eight of his 14 hits going for extra bases in the next 13. But far too few of the others did. Buxton looks lost, Perkins is still out injured, Hughes has been inconsistent at best, Eddie Rosario can’t stop swinging, and the list goes on. At a 10,000 ft. level, that’s how any team ends up 12 games under .500 fewer than 30 games into the season: The list of things that are going poorly is much, much longer than the list of things that are going well.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

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    Few who have watched this team so far would disagree with owner Jim Pohlad’s characterization of the team to the Star Tribune’s Chip Scoggins as a “total system failure.” The offense sits in the bottom third of the league, eight percent below league average; their defense has provided negative value. Their starters, expected to sit around league average, haven’t been close to that modest mark, and the bullpen has caved in, in the absence of Perkins. There are individual successes, but it’s hard to look at a unit on the field and say that they’re performing at or above expectations.

    What will raise more than a few eyebrows is that Pohlad then gave both general manager Terry Ryan and manager Paul Molitor an unequivocal vote of confidence and while it’s not always immediately clear, it didn’t seem to be the dreaded vote of confidence either. If there was any hope that the disastrous start to the season would result in a change in leadership, it’s gone for at least the rest of the season.

    To be frank, firing a GM midseason would be fairly out of step with how the Twins tend to conduct business, and that’s before taking into account Ryan’s years of service to the organization. One bad month, even one bad half season isn’t going to earn Ryan a midseason public dismissal. Short of a catastrophic error -- a rules violation during the draft/signing process resulting in a huge fine, releasing Buxton outright without cause, burning down Target Field -- it’s hard to imagine what Ryan would have to do to have his season end before the team’s did.

    If the goal is to keep the 2016 postseason in play, removing Ryan would do little good. There are no impact free agents available, no one in the draft is going to join the team and add seven wins from June 10 until the end of the year, major in-season trades are far more uncommon now than they used to be, and it’s hard to envision any other move designed to save 2016 that wouldn’t end up weakening the team substantially in the future. Yes, promoting and demoting players to their right levels is exceedingly important for the Twins in both the short- and long-term, but a new GM is actually less likely to make those calls correctly than Ryan is, simply because of his familiarity with the players up and down the system.

    Paradoxically, if the Twins were playing a little better, perhaps Ryan’s job would be more vulnerable because the marginal utility of changing GMs would be higher. Bringing in someone who had shown an aptitude for working the trade deadline in July and the waiver wire in August would be appealing since the AL looks like it will be decided by a razor-thin margin. (This presupposes that such a person is freely available at this point in the season, but that’s another column entirely.)

    Out of sheer proximity to the problem, the manager ought to be able to make the types of changes in-season that a GM can’t. But as the team has shown over the last few weeks, new blood isn’t enough to spark the team. Not counting pitchers, the team has had 15 players take the field with Brian Dozier, Eduardo Escobar, and Rosario about the only players who haven’t split a meaningful amount time at their respective positions, so it’s not as if the opening day lineup has been run out for 28 consecutive games and this is the result. Changes are being made, they’re just producing the same outcomes.

    Moving on from Molitor would certainly shake things up, and unlike Ryan, there are logical candidates available to take over. Gene Glynn, Mike Quade, and Doug Mientkiewicz are all within the organization and were either considered for the managerial vacancy left by Ron Gardenhire or have MLB managerial experience. So whereas Ryan is virtually locked in until the end of the season, Molitor could theoretically be moved.

    The downside is that it means burning a bridge with a legendary hitter who the players -- at least publicly -- seem to like and to whom they respond. There’s also no guarantee it will work. Glynn and Mientkiewicz have good minor league track records to buoy their candidacies, but there’s a huge difference between motivating a 19-year-old kid whose dreams are still ahead of him to work hard and getting the same response out of veterans like Eduardo Nunez or Kurt Suzuki. Quade did have some time working with the Cubs during their rebuilding phase, but they finished 20 games under .500 during his only full season at the helm, which is hardly a sterling reference.

    Molitor’s managerial ability is far from a known quantity. Last year’s team overperformed in his first full season by nearly as much as this year’s team is underperforming. He hasn’t shown an unhelpful fetishization of one particular type of player, nor has he proven incapable of handling a bullpen. The obvious warts aren’t there, but that doesn’t make him good, it just makes him not-bad-in-readily-apparent-ways. It may become clear what his deficiencies are as the season progresses, but losing him in service of a vague effort to spur a team that may well have put themselves in too deep a hole to recover from doesn’t seem like a good use of resources. Because, while he may prove himself to be a poor fit for a team that figures to be young and volatile for the next few years, it’s equally possible that he’ll prove to be a tremendous fit even if the team finishes 71-91. Plus, statistically speaking, firing a manager midseason doesn’t make your team appreciably better in the vast majority of cases. It’s a show of force, but if it doesn’t translate to more wins on the field, it can hardly be considered worth doing.

    Given that he’ll have just one more year on his contract after the die is cast on this season, it seems more than likely that the Twins will give Molitor the full value of his contract, then evaluate his performance from there. Assuming this year finishes in the same vein as it has started -- if not the exact same path -- that will put quite a bit of pressure on Molitor going into the 2017 season, as he’ll have one impressive season under his belt and one fairly poor one.

    While there is good reason to keep both Ryan and Molitor where they are for the rest of 2016 season, the takeaway here isn’t that Pohlad was right and that Ryan and Molitor are unquestionably the right people for their jobs. Ultimately, Ryan is the architect of a team that has been dire since 2011 (with a brief respite last year) and Molitor is the final authority on game-to-game matters for a team on pace to finish 47-115, the worst mark in franchise history and the Twins’ first 100+ loss team since 1982. And while 115 losses would be embarrassing even given how the season started, that 1982 mark is very much in play.

    The takeaway here is that, as with virtually everything in baseball, there is a rhythm and a seasonality to leadership changes, and that jumping out of that order doesn’t necessarily produce better outcomes. If the ownership group believes there is even a 1% chance they’ll want to move on from Ryan come the offseason, they should start making that determination now. Do the necessary due diligence and be ready to make a call at the right moment. Taking the time to do the requisite research, let Ryan know what to expect, and positioning to the public for either his return or his departure will go a long way to making sure the 2017 Twins aren’t fighting these same battles.

    Next week, I’ll take a deep dive into Ryan’s time with the Twins. The highs, lows, and how he stacks up against some of the league’s top architects right now.

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    Well, sure.  But when Kepler was called up, the 40 man was full.  I, and I think most of us, were fine with the Twins not putting a vet like Robinson (or Murphy) on the 40 man.  Santana got hurt, the Twins needed another body.  It happens.  They could have cut Hicks on April 7th (or whenever) and put Maestro on the 40 man so Kepler stayed down but I'm not overly concerned with them not doing it.  That doesn't bother me nearly as much as Molitor starting/not starting Buxton or how he treated Meyer.  

     

    Yeah I agree Buxton is on Molitor, and it bothered the hell out of me too.  

     

    Meyer - who made the decision to call him up when he was on a roll in AAA? There were other options , I think both share equal blame there.  

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    Great analogy with the Wolves. 

     

    They hired the best coach available. The Twins didn't even call Maddon. 

     

    The Wolves hired a young GM from about the best run franchise in the league over the last 15 years.  The Twins kept the status quo.

    Who would've thought the Twolves would be the model to follow!?!?  Crazy to think about just a few years ago....

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    1. He made the team even younger!!! This is what you do when you are rebuilding... you get younger. We got Younger in CF and Younger at Backup Catcher and much younger in RF and based on MLB Experience... We got younger at DH as well since Park is brand spanking new in this league. We took a young team and made it younger and said go win us a pennant. 

     

     

    I agree with the grievances, except for this one. If anything, I wish he would have gone even more youthful, particularly in the rotation and the pen.

     

    But I also wasn't expecting them to go out an win a pennant in 2016. However judging from Jim Pohlad's comments, that was what was expected from the organization.

     

    I wonder if they had any kind of organizational meeting last off season to discuss the goals for 2016, because it sounds like ownership thought they would make moves to contend, the front office made moves for development and the field staff is managing like they are in a pennant race. I'm beginning to suspect that the Twins notorious cloak and dagger level of opaqueness with the fans and media might not be systematic and internal communication between ownership/front office/field staff might also be lacking.

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    BTW... He gets credit for the Park signing. So the off season wasn't totally bad.

     

     

    Does he?  The Twins scouts are very good at identifying talent and then give Ryan the keys to them to sign.  I say fire Ryan or keep him on as the Director of Scout Recruiting since he can hire good scouts.  After that, meh.
     

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    Here are my list of grievances:

    1. He made the team even younger!!! This is what you do when you are rebuilding... you get younger. We got Younger in CF and Younger at Backup Catcher and much younger in RF and based on MLB Experience... We got younger at DH as well since Park is brand spanking new in this league. We took a young team and made it younger and said go win us a pennant.

    2. He didn't learn from his past CF Mistakes... Perhaps the most puzzling thing to me is this. Why would he willingly make Buxton the opening day starter after he clearly struggled in 2015? And why would he do this when he made the same mistake with Hicks and made the same mistake with Hicks again? And each time he didn't provide an adequate safety net.

    3. He didn't address the bullpen... The bullpen had serious issues in 2015 in my opinion and those issues were at the key positions. We didn't know what Perkins had left in him at the end of 2015... Jepsen was great filling in for Perkins but he was a vet with a pretty clear track record of a guy who was on the fringe of a set up position and if any of you were wondering why May wasn't really considered for a starting position... in my opinion... you can look right here. The bullpen needed help when May was moved to the bullpen in 2015 and that's why he was moved there and the bullpen still needed that help going into 2016. Ryan needed to add two quality bullpen arms that could provide insurance for Perkins and push everyone down a notch in the pecking order and by doing so... strengthening the bullpen.

    4. He watched the entire American League improve around him... Everybody got better and we got younger... The American League was going to be a fight every single night and he decided that younger and the mistakes that come with younger players was going to help us win those fights.

    5. He doesn't seem to be on the same page as his Manager and Rash changes on Cinco De Mayo suggest that he didn't see this coming.
     

     

    I guess I don't see the grievance on getting younger.  At this stage, that's probably the right answer, even if it doesn't help in 2016.  I think my bigger problem was not getting better where the needs were obvious. 

     

    You're absolutely right about the pen. It wasn't addressed. It should have been.  I get that O'day was expensive, but honestly, trading Milone this offseason (and I have to think they could have gotten something for him) would have offset most of the cost right there.  Now you have an open spot for a younger guy who will also likely have been a better guy.  That was my plan btw, so I can say this with hindsight. 

     

    Same went with Buxton.  Sweeney was a good idea.  But he never got a chance.  A 1 year stop gap would have been a good idea.  That wasn't considered.  We might have gotten a bit older there, but handing the job to Buxton when it was obvious both last year  and in ST this year that he wasn't ready was the wrong answer. 

     

    I'm not sure my plan would have made us a contender... or for that matter, most realistic plans, but I do agree with point 5 more than anything else.  It looks like someone somewhere completely missed the boat. 

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    It's not really the same salary.  Santana and Nolasco combined for just under 100m.  Lester signed for 155m.  While Santana and Nolasco will be paid 25m this year, the Twins won't be paying 25m to them in 2021, which is the real problem with those long term contracts.  

     

    And I agree that there are some good contracts, too.  Arrieta is a steal.  But Mauer and Santana might also be overpaid (actually, Santana probably isn't) but they are good players.  

     

    Well if we offered Nolasco and Ervin for Lester, the phone would be hung up.  That is my point.  We have a roster, chock full of guys that have negative value to other teams.  It is hard to swallow that pill, then give the GM a pass (not saying you are).

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    Well if we offered Nolasco and Ervin for Lester, the phone would be hung up.  That is my point.  We have a roster, chock full of guys that have negative value to other teams.  It is hard to swallow that pill, then give the GM a pass (not saying you are).

    And if the Cubs called and offered Lester for Sano, we'd hang up on them.  Doesn't mean Lester has negative value.  I don't think Santana's contract is a bad one.  He's pitched well for us.  Obviously, the PED suspension is a big mark against him but when he's on the mound, he's been good.  He's not an ace but he's also not being paid like an ace.  

     

    I agree that the Nolasco signing hasn't been a good one.  

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    I'll give him a pass on Kepler and Polanco.  Kepler was up b/c the 40 man didn't have a dead weight guy like Shane Robinson on it.  So he had to come up.  Polanco has been the Twins emergency call-up guy the last few years and that's ok. I wish Molitor had played him a bit more but with Santana and Plouffe on the DL, he was the obvious call-up.

    While I agree with this, the issue I have is that they weren't even given an opportunity to show what they can do.  They gained nothing and lost playing time.  I don't see how that is beneficial at any angle.

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    I agree with the grievances, except for this one. If anything, I wish he would have gone even more youthful, particularly in the rotation and the pen.

     

    But I also wasn't expecting them to go out an win a pennant in 2016. However judging from Jim Pohlad's comments, that was what was expected from the organization.

     

    I wonder if they had any kind of organizational meeting last off season to discuss the goals for 2016, because it sounds like ownership thought they would make moves to contend, the front office made moves for development and the field staff is managing like they are in a pennant race. I'm beginning to suspect that the Twins notorious cloak and dagger level of opaqueness with the fans and media might not be systematic and internal communication between ownership/front office/field staff might also be lacking.

    I think, based on their results from last year, that everyone (ownership, front office, and field staff) all thought they had the core of a contending team in place with Dozier, Plouffe, Mauer, Suzuki, Perkins, Gibson, Santana and Hughes, and that they didn't need to do much other than let the young guys (Sano, Buxton, Rosario, May et al) continue to develop.

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    Unlike most everyone else, I'm giving Molitor a pass. As he said when hired, there'll be a learning curve, ups and downs. Somehow, someway they had a decent season last year. This years roster was put together with nothing but hope. And I'm not so sure that Buxton making the cut was in any way Molitors decision. Anyway, you can bet that Molly is getting a lot of help and advice or opinions  from Vavra, Neil Allen, Eddie. Look at all the different lineups so far he's tried, and nothing seems to work. And now with the release of a couple of guys there'll be more adjusting and fitting going on attempting to find some success. I just don't know if there's any to be found with this bunch of guys.

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    Unlike most everyone else, I'm giving Molitor a pass. As he said when hired, there'll be a learning curve, ups and downs. Somehow, someway they had a decent season last year. This years roster was put together with nothing but hope. And I'm not so sure that Buxton making the cut was in any way Molitors decision. Anyway, you can bet that Molly is getting a lot of help and advice or opinions  from Vavra, Neil Allen, Eddie. Look at all the different lineups so far he's tried, and nothing seems to work. And now with the release of a couple of guys there'll be more adjusting and fitting going on attempting to find some success. I just don't know if there's any to be found with this bunch of guys.

    I agree, it's important to keep the two issues separate. In most organizations the FO sets the roster, using many different criteria than strictly talent. The manager manages what given. When the two views don't meld, chaos can't evolve. But, I should remind you, before you give Molly a pass, remember it's him who writes Plouffes name on the lineup card! :)
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    And if the Cubs called and offered Lester for Sano, we'd hang up on them.  Doesn't mean Lester has negative value.  I don't think Santana's contract is a bad one.  He's pitched well for us.  Obviously, the PED suspension is a big mark against him but when he's on the mound, he's been good.  He's not an ace but he's also not being paid like an ace.  

     

    I agree that the Nolasco signing hasn't been a good one.  

     

    I was purposefully only looking at higher priced guys, because they were likely signed or traded for by the GM.   For example, the Cubs are probably the team that says no to Sano for Bryant.

     

    I don’t know how you anyone can defend the value of the Twins players and what we are paying them. We could go through the list of these guys and ask a slightly different question.  How many of these guys could we trade for nothing and have the other team pick up their complete contract?  A vast majority would not be traded for.  I don’t know how we could define negative value any better than that.

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    This is the Twins.  The article is well written, but easy to write because this is what the Twins do.  They hire and stay the course.  They do not make changes, especially changes that switch directions.  The manager and the GM have security.  We all know that.  Our complaints are not because we expect change, but because we want some change.  We want a different approach.  And it is not Molitor that most of us question - it is TR. 

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    Seemingly bizarre and nonsensical comments by Pohlad. The idea that there is nothing Ryan can actually do to fix the "system failure," and also that no other approach would make a difference either . . . I don't even know how to describe his philosophy. Baseball nihilism? 

     

    Now, I do think part of it is just that he's really bad at giving the dreaded vote of confidence, because that was definitely an aspect of the message. He's not going to make a mid-year change, since that would be pointless, tying into the general theme that ownership is helpless and clueless. Though on that specific issue I agree with him.

     

    Bottom line is that Ryan is putting ownership in an untenable position. He is not up to the task and there are significant financial ramifications for the Pohlads. This has been obvious for years, but at some point it will be too much for them to accept anymore.

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    I guess I don't see the grievance on getting younger.  At this stage, that's probably the right answer, even if it doesn't help in 2016.  I think my bigger problem was not getting better where the needs were obvious. 

     

    You're absolutely right about the pen. It wasn't addressed. It should have been.  I get that O'day was expensive, but honestly, trading Milone this offseason (and I have to think they could have gotten something for him) would have offset most of the cost right there.  Now you have an open spot for a younger guy who will also likely have been a better guy.  That was my plan btw, so I can say this with hindsight. 

     

    Same went with Buxton.  Sweeney was a good idea.  But he never got a chance.  A 1 year stop gap would have been a good idea.  That wasn't considered.  We might have gotten a bit older there, but handing the job to Buxton when it was obvious both last year  and in ST this year that he wasn't ready was the wrong answer. 

     

    I'm not sure my plan would have made us a contender... or for that matter, most realistic plans, but I do agree with point 5 more than anything else.  It looks like someone somewhere completely missed the boat. 

     

    You and Nick are saying the same thing about a youth movement and I also realize that there are a lot more TD readers who also feel that a complete commitment to youth is the answer.  

     

    I believe that the time for this youth movement was after the 2012 season. The team was 66-96 and the top pitcher in the rotation was Scott Diamond. That's when you declare youth movement and you trade off anything of value that isn't nailed down. 

     

    They started this process with the Span and Revere trades but they should have kept going. Perkins could have fetched something decent and Willingham just hit 35 Home Runs so he might have brought some young talent back. I think Plouffe had a big month of hitting homers and he was about to enter his prime so... who knows. Liriano on potential may have been worth something. The Twins didn't have a lot of talent but there were moves to be made and commitment to get younger that probably should have happened. 

     

    Instead... Terry Ryan says (I remember this)... I don't believe in rebuilding it's only an excuse for losing games. 

     

    I say to myself... OK... That's how he wants to do it. I decide to let the man do his job. 

     

    If this is the case... No rebullding... After 2013 was as bad as 2012. Terry Ryan now has no choice. 

    Scott Diamond wasn't even as good Scott Diamond was in 2012... Our top pitcher was Sam Deduno in 2013. I loved Sam but Sam Deduno was #1 on the depth chart and Terry Ryan doesn't believe in rebuilding so he has no choice. He has to go out and pay big money to sign Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes. If you are not going to rebuild and Terry said he wasn't... He has no choice but to sign these guys. 

     

    2014... We still suck... still no youth movement... and Ervin Santana comes to town. Again... Ryan has no choice... He has to sign Ervin Santana. He doesn't believe in rebuilding and he has been consistent by not going full blown youth movement. Oh and Gardenhire was fired so clearly expectations on the field have not been met. 

     

    2015.. Paul Molitor is the new manager and somehow and nobody thought this would happen but we kept ourselves in contention for almost the entire year. It was exciting... and I thought to myself finally and I await to see what kind of fortifications Ryan would make to this roster to increase the teams chances in 2016. 

     

    2016... So we were "THIS CLOSE" to making the playoffs in 2015. And for the first time since 2012... 

     

    The TEAM GETS YOUNGER!!! 

     

    I'm Ok with a youth movement... there was no reason it couldn't have started earlier and why wait until we get "THIS CLOSE" to dip your toe in the youth pool? 

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    I'd be ok if Molitor was gone but I think Ryan's fine.  The way Molitor treated Meyer and Buxton was nuts.  

    Not to mention how poorly Molitor used Kepler when he was up here. He should have been playing a couple of games a week at least to keep him sharp and to get an idea of what we have in him.

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    I am certainly not giving up on Paul Molitor right now. Yes, the team has sucked all year long. But remember just last year when the Twins, led by rookie manager Paul Molitor, almost made the playoffs? One bad month is no reason to give up on a manager, especially after what he accomplished last year. 

     

    Terry Ryan, however, is who I question. No, I do not believe that he is trying to sabotage the Twins, but I do believe that he is no longer competent for this job. I believe that the game is starting to pass him by. 

     

    The problem, I do believe, is with ownership. I was at Target Field last weekend. I searched the playing surface far and wide, but other than Mr. Joseph Mauer, I could not find the money that I paid for my tickets or for all of the Twins merchandise I buy in a given year. Pohlad's comments, I think, were a sign of incompetence. 

     

    If the Twins keep losing, players start getting traded. If Perkins comes back, ever, and pitches well, he's gone. Plouffe too, possibly even Dozier, if the offer is right.

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    Blame Ryan and Molitor? Sure. Fire them? I won't be upset. Doesn't matter in 2016. The main problem is the young Twins players haven't yet reached their potential as MLB players.

     

    Buxton, Polanco and Kepler are where they should be: AAA. Murphy needs a trip to AAA. Arcia and Santana are still figuring it out. Sano is still learning to adjust. All of the relief prospects have suffered injuries at some point. Duffey and Berrios are ready for the big leagues but just starting their careers. 

     

    I'm all for trading our veterans between now and next season. Plouffe, Dozier, Nunez, Gibson, Arcia and Nolasco all have or will have trade value. Just don't dump them because fans want to "freshen up" the team. The youth movement can't fully start until the youth are ready to win in the big leagues. 

     

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    You and Nick are saying the same thing about a youth movement and I also realize that there are a lot more TD readers who also feel that a complete commitment to youth is the answer.  

     

    I believe that the time for this youth movement was after the 2012 season. The team was 66-96 and the top pitcher in the rotation was Scott Diamond. That's when you declare youth movement and you trade off anything of value that isn't nailed down. 

     

    They started this process with the Span and Revere trades but they should have kept going. Perkins could have fetched something decent and Willingham just hit 35 Home Runs so he might have brought some young talent back. I think Plouffe had a big month of hitting homers and he was about to enter his prime so... who knows. Liriano on potential may have been worth something. The Twins didn't have a lot of talent but there were moves to be made and commitment to get younger that probably should have happened. 

     

    Instead... Terry Ryan says (I remember this)... I don't believe in rebuilding it's only an excuse for losing games. 

     

    I say to myself... OK... That's how he wants to do it. I decide to let the man do his job. 

     

    If this is the case... No rebullding... After 2013 was as bad as 2012. Terry Ryan now has no choice. 

    Scott Diamond wasn't even as good Scott Diamond was in 2012... Our top pitcher was Sam Deduno in 2013. I loved Sam but Sam Deduno was #1 on the depth chart and Terry Ryan doesn't believe in rebuilding so he has no choice. He has to go out and pay big money to sign Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes. If you are not going to rebuild and Terry said he wasn't... He has no choice but to sign these guys. 

     

    2014... We still suck... still no youth movement... and Ervin Santana comes to town. Again... Ryan has no choice... He has to sign Ervin Santana. He doesn't believe in rebuilding and he has been consistent by not going full blown youth movement. Oh and Gardenhire was fired so clearly expectations on the field have not been met. 

     

    2015.. Paul Molitor is the new manager and somehow and nobody thought this would happen but we kept ourselves in contention for almost the entire year. It was exciting... and I thought to myself finally and I await to see what kind of fortifications Ryan would make to this roster to increase the teams chances in 2016. 

     

    2016... So we were "THIS CLOSE" to making the playoffs in 2015. And for the first time since 2012... 

     

    The TEAM GETS YOUNGER!!! 

     

    I'm Ok with a youth movement... there was no reason it couldn't have started earlier and why wait until we get "THIS CLOSE" to dip your toe in the youth pool? 

    I'm not really arguing with any of these, as they are very valid.  I don't know if Hammer would have gotten much, but Perk certainly would have.  My point was more in the context of now.  As the kids get ready, by all means, you have to get younger and play them, and we are in a situation where getting younger does make sense to an extent, and getting younger and getting better aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. 

     

    I would argue though that whether Ryan would publicly use the term rebuild or not, we were rebuilding..  that was obvious the moment Span and Revere were traded. 

     

    My big issue is that we have a number of young starting pitchers who were likely to outperform Milone (who had value and could be traded) and while this would have been another bumpy year, it would have been able to get someone solidified.  I also took issue that we didn't hedge our bets with Buxton. As well, we needed a lot of help in the pen, and while help is on the way, it won't be up right away, and adding a really good vet in the pen both helps now and should be of use down the road, especially when you consider the fact that there are 6 or 7 slots for pen use.  I figured the record would be around the same this year, but that the kids would really take hold.  Instead, we valued depth to the point that some of these kids aren't playing or playing out of position.  Can't say I'm a fan of that. 

     

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    I was purposefully only looking at higher priced guys, because they were likely signed or traded for by the GM.   For example, the Cubs are probably the team that says no to Sano for Bryant.

     

    I don’t know how you anyone can defend the value of the Twins players and what we are paying them. We could go through the list of these guys and ask a slightly different question.  How many of these guys could we trade for nothing and have the other team pick up their complete contract?  A vast majority would not be traded for.  I don’t know how we could define negative value any better than that.

    Maybe we're talking past each other?  The Twins have some higher paid (but moderate compared to MLB salaries) players not playing well.  I would argue that Mauer and Santana are playing well, Milone, Plouffe and Dozier's salary were set as part of the CBA although the Twins locked in a value on Dozier.  The other salaries are pretty minimal.  Basically, what you are arguing is that FA signings aren't really worth it.  Which is a reason the Twins don't do it much and only do it on the smaller scale.  

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    I'd say the benefit would be giving Gene Glynn a reasonable audition this year.

     

    All that would do is encourage the organization to stay in house rather than looking for a different voice, viewpoint, or someone who would hold people accountable.  If Glynn was a difference maker as a manager, he would be a manager already.  More than likely, Glynn like Molitor like Gardenhire, is just a guy.  No audition needed.

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    Maybe we're talking past each other?  The Twins have some higher paid (but moderate compared to MLB salaries) players not playing well.  I would argue that Mauer and Santana are playing well, Milone, Plouffe and Dozier's salary were set as part of the CBA although the Twins locked in a value on Dozier.  The other salaries are pretty minimal.  Basically, what you are arguing is that FA signings aren't really worth it.  Which is a reason the Twins don't do it much and only do it on the smaller scale.  

     

    I don't think we are talking past each other.  Just not on the same page.  Mauer is playing well.  Nobody would argue that.  I am just saying, relative to the prices TR has paid people, we could not get rid of them if we wanted to.  That fact, and wins are about as good of a metric as I can think of to assess how a GM is doing.

     

    I think we have taken the wrong approach in free agency and with re-signing our current guys.  We have targeted back end rotation types that are on the wrong side of 30 and given them four year deals at inflated annual amounts.  In the rare case one of these deals initially looks good, we have doubled down at the players absolute high point in their career (Hughes) and quickly fliipped those contracts from a bargain to an anchor.  Other tendencies, like tendering players that are not very good and unneccesarily extending guys has also gotten us in trouble.  

     

     

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    I'd say, everyone on this list, with the exceptions of Mauer, Park, and maybe Dozier, is a placeholder. I believe that the team is committed to the rebuild in process via the farm system and prospect development. So, somebody has to play the games while we wait for the youngsters. Everyone on the list, with the exceptions of Nolasco and Park, contributed to last season's push for the playoffs. From the point of view that they are placeholders, it would've been a remarkable achievement of management had they made the playoffs (where anything can happen, even the Royals winning the world series). When they were in the midst of the push, it was tormenting for me, a bystander with no responsibility in the matter, to decide what I thought Ryan should do- should he make deals to improve the team and increase chances for the playoff push, or should he hold steady on the rebuild front? If he had gone for it, and the team had made the playoffs, we would be sitting here now in the same situation, but with a far less stoked farm system. In my opinion, it would have only been worth it in exchange for a real shot at the world series. Losing Hu to gain Jepsen might not have been worth it. 

     

    I've only ever had one general significant criticism of Ryan. In the seasons when the Twins were making the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round, I don't think he did enough (anything) to make the team into a playoff competitor. He didn't do it mid season, and he didn't do it in the off season. The starting rotations of those teams were built to get through the season, but didn't have the talent to compete in the playoffs when everybody steps it up a notch. 

     

    Ryan has done an excellent job building the current farm system. I am very excited about more players than the MLB team has room for. I am hoping that Ryan has learned something from the failures of the playoff teams of the 2000s, and that when the team is good again with the talent he's amassed, he doesn't make the same mistakes. I'm willing to wait and see. It doesn't make any sense to have someone build something and then dismiss them right before their efforts come to fruition, especially with the risk of their replacement ruining everything. 

    The Twins success was pretty flukey last year.  Not surprised to see them come crashing back down to earth.  They need to shed those salaries and get some legit SP (and RP for that matter) before they'll ever have a chance.  Ryan has whiffed on a lot of FA's and much of the talent he's aquired in the farm system has been with early picks in the draft as a result of losing so many games.  I don't question Molitor's baseball knowledge, but do question TR's ideology on a regular basis. 5 yrs into his rebuild and he might have his worst team yet....

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    I'd be ok if Molitor was gone but I think Ryan's fine.  The way Molitor treated Meyer and Buxton was nuts.  

    Even more nuts is the way he has treated D. Santana, Rosario, and Dozier. They get treated way better than they should from him. He seems to like the scrappy athlete type, and will give them every chance in the world and put them in the best of situations for success, though unwanted.

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    I am certainly not giving up on Paul Molitor right now. Yes, the team has sucked all year long. But remember just last year when the Twins, led by rookie manager Paul Molitor, almost made the playoffs? One bad month is no reason to give up on a manager, especially after what he accomplished last year. 

     

    Terry Ryan, however, is who I question. No, I do not believe that he is trying to sabotage the Twins, but I do believe that he is no longer competent for this job. I believe that the game is starting to pass him by. 

     

    The problem, I do believe, is with ownership. I was at Target Field last weekend. I searched the playing surface far and wide, but other than Mr. Joseph Mauer, I could not find the money that I paid for my tickets or for all of the Twins merchandise I buy in a given year. Pohlad's comments, I think, were a sign of incompetence. 

     

    If the Twins keep losing, players start getting traded. If Perkins comes back, ever, and pitches well, he's gone. Plouffe too, possibly even Dozier, if the offer is right.

     

    The 2015 Twins were fool's gold, and shame on anyone who wasn't clearheaded enough to see that.  To try an pin the past 6 years on any one person is naive.  A variety of people in a variety of roles have come and gone, yet the results are still the same.  The issue is that rather than make changes and bring in outsiders, the Twins have run their organization like a game of musical chairs.  Gardenhire was the fall guy, he sat out a year, and then the organization brought him right back in.  How do you expect anything to actually change when this is the approach?

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    I'm surprised this isn't looked at a bit more but here is my (amature GM status) 2 cents (I hope this doesn't get too long winded ((WARNING:crap it did))

     

    I think the KC Royals, laid out a fantastic blueprint on how to win a championship as a smaller market team over the last 2 years.  I think the Royals, and Cubs have shown how to build a successful team using a stocked farm system. Some of this is hindsight and to late for the Twins to adapt to, and some was apparent, and then ignored by our FO.  But moving fwd, I think we still have a window of opportunity, but we need to have a plan, and stick to it.... and is Ryan the right guy for this plan?

     

    I'll start w/ how KC and CHC built their teams, and the Twins failed this approach.  They had a group of young players, play together thru the minor leagues (For the Cubs it was mostly AAA Iowa due to acquired pieces).  KC may have accelerated their players to the MLB a bit quicker, but most all came up and faced the trials and tribulations of the MLB together.  They learned on the fly, and stayed true to their game (D and aggressive speed on basepaths).  The Cubs are the same, they built a powerhouse AAA team, w/ some of the elite who's who of prospects.  Some players got plenty of seasoning at Iowa, and some just had a pit stop before heading east on 80.  But for the most part they caravanned east on 80 together.  The SUCCESSFUL Cubs and Royals teams were going to be built with the prospects and fill the holes/missing pieces/key additions w/ FA signings (obviously easier for the Cubs).  The Twins, no offense to some guys I really like, but have been using barely league avg Veterans and shuffling prospects back and forth willy nilly.  Signing stop gap FA (pitchers) to big(ger than normal for Twins) deals, when we really haven't been in a place to make a run (wasted resources????).  Where is the objective???? What is our teams identity????  We have had a loaded farm system, that guys have won championships together at multiple stops thru the minors for 3 years now.  That's the core group, not (again I'm sorry to these players that I've grown to cheer for) Dozier, Plouffe, Hughes, Zuke, Perkins etc.  Some of this plan has already been breached, but it's not to late to be sellers in Jun/Jul and start the core the 2nd half of the season.  Learning curves you bet, but look at Cain, Hosmer, Perez, Rizzo, Baez first season and a half (give or take) in the majors.... and now they are the leading pieces to Championship Caliber teams.  

    I need to add the blueprint, since it was in my thesis.  Dayton Moore/Yost/KC FO a smaller market team, developed a strategy different from other AL teams.  They lost Grienke a legitimate #1, and started the 2014/15 season w/ a rotation that I don't think had a true ace, similar of the Twins. But they had a balanced rotation, that could keep the game close until the 6th inning b/c they had one of the best defenses on the field.  They eliminated opposing offenses stealing bases, they eliminated teams going 1st to 3rd w/ fast OF w/ good arms.  And then hand it over to the bullpen that we all know what they are. They ranked dead last in HR's hit in 2014.  However they put the ball in play, got on base at a high percentage, and got themselves into scoring position.  And they weren't afraid to make a deal at the trade deadline last year for a 3 month rental.  Whether that was the difference of them having rings or not, I don't know, but they won.  

     

    I don't expect the Twins to follow exactly, but for teams that aren't able to sign Aces to 10 year deals (I don't want to really) I think what KC did is pretty genius. Unless we develop our own #1's and 2's, it's unlikely we can matchup in October w/ other playoff teams starting pitching.  So you have to beat them at the back end.  You have to be willing to adapt.  You have to be willing to find other teams areas of weakness, and make those your strength.  You have to invent ways to win.  I don't ever expect the Twins to be the Nikola Tesla's of MLB, but let's not be the last to the party either. Great Job Dayton Moore.  Ryan, or his heir successor, be BOLD, and don't look back.  I will never fault a non-playoff team, if you Have a plan.  Seeing the last 3-4 years, I'm looking really hard to find a plan.  

     

    (Note)- Most of this ramble is speaking in generalizations.  I could have added plenty of specifics, but this is already long winded enough.  Just needed a good vent w/ my faithful Twins Brethren.  

     

     

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