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  • The Twins $55 Million Question


    Ted Schwerzler

    The calendar has already passed halfway through June and the 2015 major league baseball season is starting to take shape. Nearing the halfway point of the season, teams are starting to categorize themselves as contenders or pretenders.

    Image courtesy of Credit: Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports

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    Right now, the Twins land somewhere in the middle, and while they are not necessarily buyers at the trade deadline, they can improve from within the organization. The biggest question though, is what they do with their $55 million man.

    A season ago, the Twins 4.57 team ERA ranked 29th, or second to last, in all of major league baseball. Generally out of games before they started, Minnesota knew that their pitching needed to start giving their offense a chance. They made a splash, signing free agent Ervin Santana to the largest free agent contract in franchise history.

    After spending a season with the Atlanta Braves in the National League, Santana was ready to return home to the American League. Having pitched in 2003 in the AL Central, the Twins were a relative comfort zone for the free agent. His career 4.48 ERA is indicative of a pitcher who can be a difference maker, but someone who still has some questions to answer. For the Twins though, he's a legitimate number two who should provide plenty of value.

    Now coming to the end of a 50-game suspension due to performance-enhancing drug use, Santana is nearing the day that he can rejoin the fold. After the Twins jettisoned Jordan Schafer, the club has an open 40-man roster spot for their high dollar pitcher. However, how does the ninth best pitching team in the American League (3.84 team ERA) accommodate him?

    It's probably safe to consider both Phil Hughes and Kyle Gibson locks to stay in the rotation. Despite Hughes' struggles in 2015, he's still seen as the staff ace. Hughes' (4.79) ERA is inflated by his inability to control the long ball this season. After giving up just 16 home runs all of last season, he's allowed 15 through June 19.

    Gibson has been one of the early season bright spots. Despite a tough outing his last time out, the Twins former first-rounder owns a 3.33 ERA and has been one of the American League's best pitchers in the early going. His strikeout and walk numbers virtually match his career lines, and despite his 4.41 FIP (fielding independent pitching), he should be counted on to keep his roll going.

    Owning the middle ground is rookie Trevor May. A 4.26 ERA probably doesn't do justice to just how good May has looked at times. Despite a few tougher starts, he's looked every bit a top of the rotation type. His 7.7 K/9 and 1.7 BB/9 are both great, and his 3.16 FIP suggests he should only continue to improve. The Twins should see him as a lock.

    Arguably the toughest to dissect of the group is Mike Pelfrey. Going from a rotation snub, to the bullpen, and back into the rotation, Pelfrey has been the club's best pitcher this season. It's hard to include him as a lock because he seems to make us continually hold our breath; yet suggesting he's middle of the road with his current numbers is also not doing him justice. A 2.97 ERA is going to be tough to sustain while striking out right around four batters a game, but the Twins absolutely have to ride the wave until it crashes.

    That leaves recently reinstated starter Tommy Milone. Of the group, Milone is probably the least likely to have success in the bullpen. A soft-tossing lefty, Milone absolutely dominated Triple-A after being sent down earlier this year. In his three starts since rejoining the big league club, Milone owns a 2.37 ERA and has allowed opposing hitters just a .236 batting average against him.

    In short, the question becomes, where does Ervin Santana fit?

    There's absolutely no doubt that the Twins need to find a place for him in their rotation. It's also a great to need to ask this question, rather than be able to point to three different pitchers that don't belong.

    Santana is making the first of what will be three starts for Triple-A Rochester on Saturday. Over the course of the next week and a half, Minnesota will be evaluating their staff as a whole, and trying to answer the big question.

    While I don't envy the decision-makers in this situation, the reality is that as a whole, the Twins staff still is a bit more quantity than quality. Santana should boost the quality aspect, and the Twins will know they have depth when they need it. I'd look at inserting Santana in the place of Milone, knowing that if and when Pelfrey blows up, you have an option you can immediately turn to.

    Regardless of what happens, this is a position the Twins have not found themselves in for at least the past four seasons. Quality pitching had become a thing of the past, but this club, under Paul Molitor and Neil Allen, it turning over a welcomed new leaf.

    For more from Off The Baggy, click here. Follow @tlschwerz

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    5/100 isn't that bad.  In fact, given his age, present health, and performance, it's probably a selling point.  If Tulo was a FA today, he would blow that number away.

     

    Not that I advocate a blockbuster trade for him, but he's still pretty good.

     

    He usually starts out a month or two and then gets hurt. So I don't know about "present health".   He missed 110 games in 2012, 36 in 2013, and 71 last year.

     

    But I guess I can't rule out some team giving him 5/100 as a free agent.

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    Trade one or two of the current starters, preferably for a catcher for the present or the near future.  Open up some room in the rotation for Santana, Nolasco and maybe Berrios.  The Twins need to think ahead or they'll be in the position Oakland was last year, when they just put Tommy Milone on waivers.  I have to believe there are some teams in need of starting pitching.

    Edited by strumdatjaguar
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    I would be curious what Tulo's value would be though. I have a feeling this is one where is name recognition for fans exceeds the value teams would place on him (given his age, health, and contract). I agree wholeheartedly the package would be more than Gibson, Arcia, and prospects though.

     

    He is almost 31 and owed 5 and $100M and has not played a full season since 2011. He has to be pretty close to sliding over to 3b as well.  

    When he is healthy he is still one of the best shortstops in baseball.  I'm sure the Rockies would point that out in trade negotiations.  5/$100M would be ok for the next 2-3 years.  But $20m for his 34 and 35 years of age would be a killer and would most likely be right in the time the Twins will be solid contenders would like to spend some money.

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    5/100 isn't that bad.  In fact, given his age, present health, and performance, it's probably a selling point.  If Tulo was a FA today, he would blow that number away.

     

    Not that I advocate a blockbuster trade for him, but he's still pretty good.

     

    And I am guessing that team would immediately regret that decision.  As I have mentioned in other threads where "trade for Tulo" has come up:

     

    2015 H/R splits:

    H: .339/.373/.517

    R: .277/.299/.438

     

    Career H/R splits:

    H:  .324/.396/.562

    R:  .274/.346/.467/.813

     

    He simply isn't the same player away from Coors Field.  Is he still an above average player? For sure.....but his overall statistics are mis-leading.  Add to the fact he is on the wrong side of 30, rarely stays healthy and is owed $20M per year for the next 5 years?  He wouldn't be worth the prospects, especially if we think that Polonco could be a serviceable ML shortstop in the next 1.5 years.

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    I mentioned in a couple other threads: I would trade Gibson, he is the one who can actually bring you some solid value back in return like C or SS help. Gibson+Arcia+A couple prospects  for Tulo?

     

    That conversation still isn't started unless Buxton, Sano, or Berrios' name is included. No thanks.

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    He is almost 31 and owed 5 and $100M and has not played a full season since 2011. He has to be pretty close to sliding over to 3b as well.  

     

    Is that something this team would want then?

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    Is it certain that Santana and Nolasco will perform better than the 5 pitchers currently in the rotation? Their projections do not suggest it is clear. Milone has performed better than either of the other two since 2012 and is 28. Perhaps those 500+ innings don't represent his true skill level, but that is a pretty big sample to ignore.

    I'm skeptical of Milone because he played all those games in Oakland, which may have influenced his stat line. He has an ERA of 2.98 in Oakland while his ERA for career away games (didn't feel like breaking it down further than that) is below league average at 4.33.

     

    That doesn't mean he can't be just as good or better than the guys you listed, it just means I'm skeptical.

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    xFIP- by year:

     

    Milone

    2011 - 119

    2012 - 97

    2013 - 105

    2014 - 120

    2015 - 118

     

    Santana

    2011 - 97

    2012 - 108

    2013 - 93

    2014 - 94

    2015 - TBD

     

    Not seeing the case for Milone. He put up #3 numbers for 2 seasons in Oakland, but from 2014 on he's been a 5th starter. Santana has been up and down but is clearly the superior pitcher.

     

    I would take Nolasco over Milone, but it's a little trickier since Nolasco keeps getting hurt and has a long track record of under-performing his peripherals.

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    I'm skeptical of Milone because he played all those games in Oakland, which may have influenced his stat line. He has an ERA of 2.98 in Oakland while his ERA for career away games (didn't feel like breaking it down further than that) is below league average at 4.33.

     

    That doesn't mean he can't be just as good or better than the guys you listed, it just means I'm skeptical.

    His ERA+ would have been adjusted for park and league. Otherwise he would have had a better number.

     

    There is reason to be skeptical. Oakland traded him for a journeyman CF. Someone above commented he was waived but that was not correct. He was optioned after they acquired two very good starters.

     

    There is also reason to be skeptical of Nolasco and Santana. Pitchers who are league average or worse through ages 26-31 rarely are very good ages 32-35.

     

    http://twinsdaily.com/blog/36/entry-6349-what-can-the-twins-expect-from-santana-and-nolasco/

     

    My hope is that Santana earns a spot by dominating AAA or coming up and being lights out from the bullpen. The current starting 5 earned the chance to compete against him for their spot.

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    His ERA+ would have been adjusted for park and league. Otherwise he would have had a better number.

     

    There is reason to be skeptical. Oakland traded him for a journeyman CF. Someone above commented he was waived but that was not correct. He was optioned after they acquired two very good starters.

     

    There is also reason to be skeptical of Nolasco and Santana. Pitchers who are league average or worse through ages 26-31 rarely are very good ages 32-35.

     

    http://twinsdaily.com/blog/36/entry-6349-what-can-the-twins-expect-from-santana-and-nolasco/

     

    My hope is that Santana earns a spot by dominating AAA or coming up and being lights out from the bullpen. The current starting 5 earned the chance to compete against him for their spot.

    I absolutely believe Milone should receive a legitimate chance to compete for a spot, particularly at the expense of Nolasco. We've seen enough Bad Ricky where it's time to make him earn a spot, not have one handed to him.

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    xFIP- by year:

     

    Milone

    2011 - 119

    2012 - 97

    2013 - 105

    2014 - 120

    2015 - 118

     

    Santana

    2011 - 97

    2012 - 108

    2013 - 93

    2014 - 94

    2015 - TBD

     

    Not seeing the case for Milone. He put up #3 numbers for 2 seasons in Oakland, but from 2014 on he's been a 5th starter. Santana has been up and down but is clearly the superior pitcher.

     

    I would take Nolasco over Milone, but it's a little trickier since Nolasco keeps getting hurt and has a long track record of under-performing his peripherals.

    If you don't believe over 500 innings is enough to use their actual performance (adjusted for park and league) at least compare the peripherals as one sample. By season, there is no way to understand scale. For instance, isn't 2011 simply a September call up for Milone?

     

    Santana needs to earn a spot. Very good performance two years ago and good peripherals with mediocre performance last year isn't enough. He needs to perform first.

     

     

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    I don't get the fascination of a 6 man rotation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no MLB team has ever done that before, right? And we expect the Twins to implement a brand new concept? No chance.

     

    Milone has had a couple of quality starts recently, but he's just a back end rotation pitcher at the end of the day. He's my first guess at who's out of the rotation. The other I believe will be a revolving door of Nolasco limping to and from the DL, and Hughes.

    Edited by Vanimal46
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    We're still two weeks out. Why worry about it yet? The Minnesota sports gods will provide as soon as they're done torturing Gopher Basketball and stalking Teddy Bridgewater.

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    Anybody else paying attention to Santana's second start? I listened to the first. He wasn't very good, but was able to limit damage.

     

    Tonight through 5

     

    7 hits, 3 runs, 2 home runs, 2 walks, 1 strikeout

     

    Maybe his third start will be dominant. Is that enough to put him in the rotation? Not for me. Is he a given for the rotation? I hope he has to earn it. The 5 men that have worked their tails off without PEDs deserve it.

     

    Edit: Solid innings 6,7 with no hits and 2 strike outs. Overall not a very encouraging performance with 9 base runners in first 5 innings. He should have been taken out after 4 but was on a pitch count and performance didn't matter. Needs to be lights out in his third start. Milone set that bar in Rochester.

    Edited by jorgenswest
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    Anybody else paying attention to Santana's second start? I listened to the first. He wasn't very good, but was able to limit damage.

    Tonight through 5

    7 hits, 3 runs, 2 home runs, 2 walks, 1 strikeout

    Maybe his third start will be dominant. Is that enough to put him in the rotation? Not for me. Is he a given for the rotation? I hope he has to earn it. The 5 men that have worked their tails off without PEDs deserve it.

     

    Not too impressive starting out. 7 IP, 2 HR, 7 hits, 2 BB, 1 HBP, 3 K . But he's finishing out strong, 97 pitches, 65 strikes.  And Pawtucket has Castillo and Victorino batting 1-2, with 6 major leaguer-experienced guys batting 1 through 6.

     

    The Twins will start him on July 5, whether we approve or not. 

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    Not too impressive starting out. 7 IP, 2 HR, 7 hits, 2 BB, 1 HBP, 3 K . But he's finishing out strong, 97 pitches, 65 strikes. And Pawtucket has Castillo and Victorino batting 1-2, with 6 major leaguer-experienced guys batting 1 through 6.

     

    The Twins will start him on July 5, whether we approve or not.

     

    Do the Twins care about winning? Do they care about earning a job by performing?

     

    I listened again tonight. He was good innings 6 and 7. That isn't good enough. He was able to get out of jams in the first 5 innings against some mediocre hitters. He needs to be a lot better. Try have taken him out for Darnell.

    Edited by jorgenswest
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    Do the Twins care about winning? Do they care about earning a job by performing?

     

    I know they care about getting some kind of return on their most expensive FA ever.

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    I know they care about getting some kind of return on their most expensive FA ever.

    Why doesn't that return need to be better than what they are getting from their current 5? I want him to earn it. If he doesn't, start him in the pen. There will be an opportunity for the rotation as the season progresses. Let him earn it then.

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    Nolasco has done nothing to earn a rotation spot if and when he comes back. If these guys are all pitching like they are and healthy no way do any get put in the pen in favor of nolasco

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