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  • Should Any Of The Twins Get A Salvador Perez-Type Extension (The First One)?


    Michael Bates

    Yesterday, the Royals gave their star catcher/packmule/perpetual-thorn-in-the-Twins’-side Salvador Perez a five year contract extension through 2021. Perez had been operating under an incredibly team-friendly extension he signed after he had been in the league for less than a year, which guaranteed him just seven million dollars over five years and carried several very below-market team options. Even as the Royals ground their catcher into a sticky paste through overuse, it was easily one of the most team friendly contracts in the league in large part because the Royals invested in him so quickly after his promotion to the big leagues.

    The Twins are in a similar position to the Royals in 2011, when Kansas City first committed to Perez, with several young players with less than a full year of experience. Are any of them worth signing to a similar deal, and would any of them take it? Let’s take them one-by-one.

    Image courtesy of Joe Camporeale-USA TODAY Sports

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    Byron Buxton

    There’s no getting around how awful Buxton was last year in his relatively short exposure to the majors, hitting just .209/.250/.362 with six walks and 44 strikeouts in 138 plate appearances. Still, you could see flashes of the brilliance that has made him a top-2 prospect in each of the last two years, and his minor league production certainly supported the notion that he’s a future All Star.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? Yes. Ultimately, Buxton is still more likely to hit his peak than not, and his strikeout rate compares to other 21-year-olds like Harmon Killebrew, Reggie Jackson, Anthony Rizzo, Matt Kemp, Giancarlo Stanton, Justin Upton, and Jose Canseco, who struggled in their first exposure to MLB pitching, especially when you consider the high strikeout era we’re currently in.

    Miguel Sano

    No Twins rookie has had Sano’s level of success with the bat since Tony Oliva, as Sano hit .269/.385/.530 with 18 homers in 335 plate appearances. There simply is no doubt that Sano is going to hit. But he’s also a man with serious questions about where he’ll play and how well he’ll play there. Bill Parker talked on Monday about how there is no real precedent for a player of Sano’s size heading to the outfield at such a young age. We have no idea if he’ll play a passable right field. Likewise, even if Trevor Plouffe were not blocking him, there are legitimate questions about whether he could stay at third base. And first base and designated hitter seem to be taken for the next couple of years by Joe Mauer and Byung-Ho Park.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? I would, but just barely. By the time the deal was complete, Sano would be free to play first base and, barring catastrophic injury, will still be a force at the plate.

    Eddie Rosario

    Rosario debuted in May and finished as the Twins’ regular left fielder. He showed good mid-range power, smacking 13 homers and 46 total extra base hits, including a league-leading 15 triples and very good defense at a pretty vital position. He also walked just 15 times with 118 strikeouts in 474 plate appearances, and hit .267/.289/.459 overall as a 23 year old.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? No. His inability to control the strike zone is a huge red flag for me, as is his lack of a minor league track record. I think Rosario is talented enough to be worth that kind of a commitment from the Twins, but I also think there’s a high enough chance that he will completely implode and pull a Danny Santana that I wouldn’t want to put my team on the hook for it.

    Max Kepler

    Kepler won the Eastern League MVP award for Chattanooga at 22 years old, and debuted in September, getting just seven plate appearances. He’s a consensus top 50 prospect in the majors, but is unproven.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? Given that 2015 was his first real success at any level, and the first year he stayed fully healthy, no. I have more faith in him over the long term than I do in Rosario, however.

    Tyler Duffey

    Duffey seems destined to make the rotation in 2016 after a strong 3.10 ERA and 3.24 FIP with 53 strikeouts and 20 walks in 58 innings across 10 starts last year. Indeed, Duffey’s FIP led the Twins among pitchers who lasted at least 30 innings.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? God no. Young pitchers exist to break your heart. Duffey’s ceiling is still too low, and the injury risk for just about any young starter is simply too high.

    Jose Berrios

    Berrios hasn’t even debuted yet, but as the Twins’ best pitching prospect in ages, I guess we should discuss him.

    Would you sign him to a Perez deal? No, for the same reason as Duffey. Look, no one has been on the Berrios bandwagon as long as I have, but there simply is too much unpredictability in young arms to ever consider something like that.

    Would any of these guys take a Perez-like deal though?

    Knowing the same thing we do about the risks of being a pitching prospect, it wouldn’t surprise me if Berrios or Duffey would be open to such a deal. Similarly, Max Kepler might not be willing to bet on his ability to stay healthy over the long term. Rosario, given his success as a rookie, would probably be likely to turn an offer down. Plus, he seems like the kind of guy who would have plenty of confidence in his own ability.

    As for Buxton and Sano (and, to a lesser extent, Berrios), I don’t think they have the same incentive to sign that Perez did in 2011. Keep in mind that Perez signed out of Venezuela in 2006 for just $65,000, much of which would’ve had to go to his agent and trainers (the international signing community is a wretched hive of scum and villainy). He was never considered a top 100 prospect by any major organization.

    Comparatively, Buxton signed as the number two overall choice for a $6 million bonus. Sano signed out of the Dominican Republic for a record $3.15 million. Berrios got $1.55 million. These guys have already received life-changing money and have far less incentive not to bet on themselves. Plus, they’ve got pedigrees that reinforce the idea that they’re going to be stars.

    The story of Salvador Perez is the story of a young player with incredibly little leverage and little track record, but with a team that believed in him. Congratulations to the Royals for knowing what they had in 2011 and for locking Perez in again now. The Twins simply don’t have anyone in that position, where the needs of the player and the needs of the team align so perfectly.

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    Should the Twins sign any of their young guys to the most team-friendly deal in the league?  Debating whether Sano would sign for $7 million over 5 years?  

     

    Is this real?

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    You're correct. No one besides maybe Berrios or Duffey would accept an extension similar to Perez. That's a dirt cheap contract to begin with 5 years $7 mill. 

    Would you sign Buxton or Sano to an Evan Longoria type extension? He originally signed for 6 years $17.5 mill with 3 option years after that. All 3 option years were accepted, so the deal turned out to be 9 years, $44 mill. IMO I would absolutely sign both to a deal like that. Who knows what their arbitration numbers could be once they get to that point. 

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    Yeah this makes no sense. I would sign every single one of these guys to this contract but I don't think any of them would even think about it - in fact, you might insult them by asking. Even if Duffey turns into nothing, it costs you $1 million to buy out potentially expensive arbitration years. Of course you do it.

     

    Pretty pointless post, no offense intended. More interesting to think about how much you would pay to buy out 5 years of Sano/Buxton etc.

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    Would you sign Buxton or Sano to an Evan Longoria type extension? He originally signed for 6 years $17.5 mill with 3 option years after that. All 3 option years were accepted, so the deal turned out to be 9 years, $44 mill. IMO I would absolutely sign both to a deal like that. Who knows what their arbitration numbers could be once they get to that point. 

     

    I would sign Kepler to a Longoria deal. I know he hasn't proven anything but those numbers are super low ten years later and if he craps out and becomes a 4th OF, $3 million is not a disastrous amount. And the upside . . .

     

    Heck I'd do this for Berrios and Duffey too with the concept that it's a low price to pay and outside of injury, $3 million is not a lot to pay for a low-leverage reliever. The option years could be so key if either of them turns into even a solid #3 pitcher.

     

    Throw me in for Eddie on the Longoria deal too. Same thought process - he's a nice 4th OF and that's not a crazy overpay with the upside there. He's the one I'd do it with last because I think he played over his head but even there it's not totally nuts. 

     

    Again, those contract numbers are 10 years old.

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    With all do respect Mr. Bates. If twins daily had a preposterous statement tourney, you might make the hall with this article. I would be in twins heaven,if any of these players would even consider a Perez type deal. And save Duffy I would give them all a Langoria type deal.

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    Mike, Mr. Bates, sir, I'd sign them all. But I don't think anyone would take those dollar amounts in todays game.

     

    Update that 5 years and 15 million, and three team options for 10/mil a piece and now we've got a debate. I still don't know who takes that. Duffy, yes, but I wouldn't offer, Berrios (maybe, he is so high on himself he may prefer to ride it out), Sano, no, Buxton... maybe, but hard to see him giving potentially 8 years to MN for 45 mil. But he's young, and would still have considerable earning power after those 8 years were up. Yikes. Now we're thinking. I think Kepler takes it, but I'm no sure Minnesota would be willing to offer after so little MLB experience, even if the man does look to be the real deal. And Rosario, I wouldn't offer that deal, but I think he'd he inclined to take it if the Twins offered.

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     I was thinking after this yr I would extend Buxton and Sano, if both look like potential stars, when both Buxton and Sano have 1 plus yr service time, I would take my chances on offering 8yr,$90-100M contracts. I wouldnt count on them accepting. If they did accept , here is how i would pay them: 2 non Arb yrs $1M, 3 arb yrs $6, 9, 12M , 3FA yrs $20, 25, 25M..........and would be nice with club option yrs beyond................is this crazy thinking???? I dont think so with what Trout is getting paid........10.25M for service yr 4, 15.25M for yr 5, then 19.25, 33.25, 33.25, and 33.25 for yrs 6 thru 9.

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     I was thinking after this yr I would extend Buxton and Sano, if both look like potential stars, when both Buxton and Sano have 1 plus yr service time, I would take my chances on offering 8yr,$90-100M contracts. I wouldnt count on them accepting. If they did accept , here is how i would pay them: 2 non Arb yrs $1M, 3 arb yrs $6, 9, 12M , 3FA yrs $20, 25, 25M..........and would be nice with club option yrs beyond................is this crazy thinking???? I dont think so with what Trout is getting paid........10.25M for service yr 4, 15.25M for yr 5, then 19.25, 33.25, 33.25, and 33.25 for yrs 6 thru 9.

     

    These numbers just don't make sense to me.  You only do this if you use the leverage of gauranteed money and raises above rookie and arb levels to get a significant discount in the out years.  Throwing out numbers like $25M in the FA years does not accomplish this.  I think you are basically just prepayinig a guy and restricting your options, not protecting any downside by doing this.  It also assumes Buxton is going to be Mike Trout.  That is a HUGE assumption.  His offense will likely look  more like Carl Crawford in his prime than Mike Trout (30-30, .950 OPS)

     

    I would give Sano a lot money (not as much as you have) because I can confidently say he is an above average major leaguer.  I think the others will, but I don't know for sure. 

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    These numbers just don't make sense to me.  You only do this if you use the leverage of gauranteed money and raises above rookie and arb levels to get a significant discount in the out years.  Throwing out numbers like $25M in the FA years does not accomplish this.  I think you are basically just prepayinig a guy and restricting your options, not protecting any downside by doing this.  It also assumes Buxton is going to be Mike Trout.  That is a HUGE assumption.  His offense will likely look  more like Carl Crawford in his prime than Mike Trout (30-30, .950 OPS)

     

    I would give Sano a lot money (not as much as you have) because I can confidently say he is an above average major leaguer.  I think the others will, but I don't know for sure. 

    2 things, first it is alot of money to dole out, but remember, if I hear right MLB is going to be flush with new money coming it.....................second, yes they may not become the next big thing but they both will be good , but if you think of it as total each yr it comes to approx $12M avg a season, something we could live with............and for FA yrs it is still a 30% discount to Trout , so it really isnt in his neighborhood, just down the street on the next block :).........................................................................................if both of us are around in 5 yrs, it would be fun to look back and see what happens................The Twins need to be proactive at some point, and as much as I would like to get them for less, I am not sure that is going to happen. And remember I did say AFTER this year if they look like potential stars, we will know more by yrs end.

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    2 things, first it is alot of money to dole out, but remember, if I hear right MLB is going to be flush with new money coming it.....................second, yes they may not become the next big thing but they both will be good , but if you think of it as total each yr it comes to approx $12M avg a season, something we could live with............and for FA yrs it is still a 30% discount to Trout , so it really isnt in his neighborhood, just down the street on the next block :).........................................................................................if both of us are around in 5 yrs, it would be fun to look back and see what happens................The Twins need to be proactive at some point, and as much as I would like to get them for less, I am not sure that is going to happen. And remember I did say AFTER this year if they look like potential stars, we will know more by yrs end.

     

    We have been hearing about new money now for awhile and yet, Clayton Kershaw received a deal that went out 7 years and it was about 10% higher per year than the deal A-Rod signed nine years ago.

     

    I don't think it makes sense to average these deals, given that they make $500k a year for three years and gradually go up from there.  That is more or less locked in. 

     

    I would certainly be open to buying out 2-4 years of Sano's FA years and be willing to pony up a ton of cash to do it.    Like you said a year from now we will know more and can re-evaluate Buxton.  But I don't want to give anyone $25M a year in the process if it can be avoided.  We have a ton of leverage right now.

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