REPORT: Twins Investigating Giants Over Sam Dyson Trade

Carol, to address some of your concerns, I clarified in the story what we know about the Twins investigation into this matter. I think it's worth pointing out though, that there is nothing in Neal's story that suggests the Twins are moving on. Maybe they are. But all that is being reported is that they have investigated and not found anything yet.

 

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es

This is all so silly. We *know* players play through things all the time without telling their teams. It drives us nuts sometimes when we hear about it after they struggle (although sometimes I suspect it's used as an excuse in those cases, rather than being a direct cause).

 

It seems especially likely that players might withhold a condition when it appears to have no impact on performance. Dyson said it first started bothering him after the all-star break in Colorado. His stats with the Giants, beginning with that Colorado series right up to the trade:

 

7 G, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K

 

How many MLB players would report a condition if those are the results they are getting while playing through it?

 

And what incentive would Dyson have to lie to cover for the Giants, then or now? Some of these accusations make zero sense.

 

I blame this on them pitching him immediately after getting off the plane following the trade....

Yes. Something is rotten here. Is it just Dyson? I mean, why wouldn't he bring it up? Did he just want to get out of San Fran for some reason? Something is fishy, if not rotten. Rotting fish, maybe.

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.

Yeah, that CAUSED his shoulder injury. Okay.

The Twins are doing what they should do, and look to see if anything was wrong on the Giants side of the trade.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Giants had been on the receiving end, they would be doing the same.

It would be negligent on the part of all parties involved not to make sure everything was done in the proper manner.

Making light of this is also sort of 'silly'. Saying that the Twins erred in pitching him right away as being the reason for his season ending is a real stretch, IMO. Asking for a prospect back is equally as unrealistic. End of the day, it has turned out to be a bad trade...and they do happen. Twins received nothing, at least not this year. Somehow, internally a few of the guys really stepped up (Littell, May, Duffey). And Romo while being an adventure out there has not been 'awful'.

I agree with the above post. Everyone is doing their job, even if nothing comes of it.

I am from Rochester, so naturally I and a few 1000 others were very unhappy losing Davis. And it was compounded by Dyson ending up being worthless this season. But thats the way it goes sometimes. Time to concentrate on what we do have and how we are going to get past round one (assuming we get there of course!)

This will be the easiest non-tender decision in the off-season.

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?

And they will be turned down.

 

Short of malfeasance by the Giants being uncovered, such a transaction would open a huge can of worms for the league going forward.

 

Players go to a new team under what I once heard (regarding a used car I bought) called a Texas Guarantee : if Dyson breaks in half after the transaction is complete, we get to keep both pieces.

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part.    And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part. And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

 

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.

If the Giants have reason to believe that they will be found to have committed malfeasance, they would be well advised to not make an offer that shows evidence of a guilty “conscience”. And if they are found guilty of malfeasance, returning one prospect will be the least of their concerns.

I would think so... Why do the Twins have to be on the hook for $6-8 million if he's out for the season?

If they are, it would be the same reason teams are on the hook for a guy they signed to a contract if he gets hurt: it’s collectively bargained.

Sure, although the language in the original story here definitely seemed to go beyond that due diligence.

Initially, I had the same reaction, after all, Twins fan bias, but, after thinking for a bit, realized I needed to take a bit a see what develops. 

Sort of a metaphor for the entire Twins season.

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

I think Dyson felt he could pitch through it and didn't tell anyone.

Doubtful. Starters generally have a more competitive market than relievers, which can necessitate a team commitment like Pineda's deal, and more importantly, shoulder surgery is very different from Tommy John surgery. It's much less predictable if and when Dyson will return to effective pitching.

 

Dyson will likely be looking at a minor league / incentive type contract for 2021.

Could be... but where is the point where the Twins (or any other team) would deem it an acceptable risk.

I'm sure Dyson doesn't want to go an entire calendar year without getting paid.

Sign him to: 

2020 - $2M

2021 - $3M

That's probably a little more than is necessary, but that probably gets it done on Dyson's side. At that point you're competing against all 29 other teams, so a little overpay (if you want him) will likely be required. 

You might get Dyson toward the tail end of 2020 and you'd have him for 2021. If Dyson gets fixed, then $5M is worth it. If he's not fixed, then you're lighting $5M on fire.

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

I wouldn't do that for a reliever. And isn't his injury the type that is very hard to recover from?

Having watched him for a couple of years in the Giant's system, I would guess that I have too high a personal opinion on his value.  Nevertheless, putting him on the 60 day IR list should eliminate the negative of having him on the 40-man.  You still can protect that one, extra Rule 5 eligible player.

The Twins should be guaranteeing any money to a 30s reliever coming off shoulder surgery.