Notebook: Hall of Fame Voting, Free Agent Signings and a Farewell

Schilling isn't mad, no sir. Why, in fact, he finds the whole thing funny and it's probably you who are mad

Very happy with the signing of Simmons and at practically half the price it took Toronto to sign Semien.

There's always a bit of an empty feeling when nobody makes the Hall of Fame.

Bonds and Clemens don't bother me.  

They were cheaters, plain and simple.

But Schilling is a different story.

Not once have I ever read of a former teammate accusing him of being a racist.

Not one former teammate has described him as the most vile person he ever knew.

Schilling's sin apparently is that he has political beliefs that offend many in the press

Is THIS where we are as a country now?  Apparently so.  Cancel Culture to the max

Reverse Schilling's situation for a moment.

"Lebron James is probably not going to get into the Basketball Hall of Fame.

LeBron's obvious "sellout" to China to enrich himself when he declined to call out the Communist Chinese Government for their oppressive treatment of many ethnic groups as well as his outspoken support for far left groups like BLM and Antifa and his obvious vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 Presidential Election have effectively disqualified James from ever being voted into the Basketball Hall of Fame"  said many NBA Hall of Fame voters who consider themselves the ultimate arbiters of what is good and decent and what is immoral and deplorable in a human being."  

"Though LeBron's on court accomplishments are undeniable, he just doesn't measure up"  said Hall of Fame voter Blizten McGurdy.  

I have to admire Schilling's statement basically telling the hall of fame voters "go take a flying leap at a rolling donut."  "I don't need you to validate my life.'

 

But Schilling is a different story.

Not once have I ever read of a former teammate accusing him of being a racist.

Not one former teammate has described him as the most vile person he ever knew.

Schilling's sin apparently is that he has political beliefs that offend many in the press

 

Dude, Schilling collects Nazi memorabilia. Only two people collect Nazi memorabilia: Museums and Nazis.

I think Schilling should be in the Hall. Still, his baseball career is not equivalent to the supreme excellence of LeBron James.

Nevertheless, Schilling would point out that he collects WW2 memorabilia in general, not just Nazi memorabilia. There have been Civil War history enthusiasts (called Civil War Buffs, remember) who in the past collected notability for both sides and even conducted battle re-enactments. There are history enthusiasts who have followed all types of scoundrels through history. While Vlad the Impaler and the leaders of the Spanish Inquisition are certainly detestable, they are much more interesting historical figures to study than some benevolent monarchs who boosted local agriculture during their reigns. I don’t have a problem with any of this, but understand that society has become touchy about it. Now for those who disagree with this post, go back to reading that newspaper story about the serial killer while you skip the story about the Nun who has helped the homeless.

Even more than Schilling falling short (and yes, he may have some questionable traits - not politics, but attitudes.) I get tired of the rejection of the all time HR king and one of the best RHP ever simply because they "cheated."   Get over it.  #1 - if it is that important to keep out anyone who is suspected, then why are Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza and Bagwell in?  #2 - any reasoning for keeping them out was invalidated when their enabler Bud Selig was inducted.  #3.  David Ortiz is eligible next year.  He should not be inducted either.  After all, a) he failed as many drug tests as Bonds and Clemens (all of them failed zero), he had a sudden body change and dramatically increased production (always felt he just found better substances in Boston than Minnesota) and c) he was named on the Mitchell report.  Yes, he claimed innocence and vowed to get whomever implicated him.  How's that search going?  About as well as OJ Simpson's search for the real killer of Nicole Brown.  But of course, Ortiz will be in easily - so no, this isn't about "cheating", PEDs or anything like that - it's about personalities, period.  

As for the other news - I was very happy to see the signing of Simmons.  HUGE upgrade defensively and if Polonco can come close to his 2019 offense by playing wherever he has to be plugged in, so much the better.  

For HOF voting, it is up to the hall on if off field things are something that would bar you.  If you gaged players that are in by todays standards they would not be.  Cobb for example.  Personally, I do not feel Shilling had the numbers to get in, even if you take away his after career issues.  He was very good pitcher but it is more so his post season and longevity that he is known for.  I would not be upset either way for him, but feel it is not just his political views that are keeping him out.

In terms of Bonds and Clemons.  I would support them being in.  They did take steroids, and by all accounts late in career, so did just about all of baseball it would seem.  The were putting of HOF numbers before their expected use.  Did it make their numbers go up even higher, most likely, but even if you take the last few years from them, you still would say they were both the best of their era, when everyone was juicing.  That is just my take.

In terms the FA signings.  It seems the dominos are starting to fall, which that happens every off-season.  One player/team sets the markets for positions and then players fly off the board. 

those who admitted to using Illegal/banned I put differently than those who use prior to testing and those who are suspected of using.......

Without the proof opens a slippery slope.....but for me Bonds, AROD...not a chance...AROD specifically suspended...why would you take after the whole first round, then testing.....WOW....

Should not allowed to be around the game....as bad as Rose betting on baseball....broke the written rules......you are out of consideration.  

Bonds is not personally liked by a number of the the Sportswriters. That is as much of a reason as the ‘roids. Are nice guys with lesser numbers more deserving? If so, then Torrii Hunter and Michael Cuddyer should be at the head of the class. I think the Hall is more interesting with a rogues gallery, anyways. Ty Cobb and Cap Anson are in it. Schilling’s numbers are worthy., so don’t let him be taken out snd vote him in anyways (his sour grapes induction speech will make the Hall more interesting). Maybe I’m crazy, but reinstate Pete Rose (another guy with a less congenial personality - especially compared to his teammates Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan).

I really like the Simmons' signing. They needed to get better defensively at SS and the difference with Polanco is striking. That said, I really hope we see Royce Lewis this year enough to get a sense if he is ready. 

As for Schilling, I think he pretty clearly deserves to be in the HOF based on his performance. Not just due to the regular season WAR of 80.5, but add in 11-2 2.23 ERA, .97 WHIP in the postseason. Plus, 5-0 with a 1.73 ERA in postseason elimination games. I understand and agree with exclusions for gambling on the games or using steroids, but I hate to see it for someone being an outspoken conservative. 

It really doesn't matter.  Of course I would not let Schilling in and I would be fearful of what he might say at the Microphone, but in the long run none of this matters.

Does anyone talk about Earl Averill, Chief Bender, or Earle Combs?  No, but they are all HOF players.  We talk about Shoeless Joe Jackson, but what about his contemporaries?  George Sisler? Carl Mays? Harry Heilmann who might have been as good a batter?  

Pete Rose is an annual conversation icon.  But is Tony Perez, Ryne Sandberg, Dave Concepcion part of the annual conversation - two are in the HOF.

So we obsess over Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, but during their time of controversy we have put in Whitey Herzog, Deacon White, Alan Trammell while they have been on the voting list and I do not seem them in conversation except Trammell when they talk about Whitaker not being in. 

So in many ways they have been done a favor, they will have more attention than Larry Walker for much longer.

I never could understand why Hall Of Fame candidates are on the ballot for so long. If they don't make it after 3 years on the ballot, they should be gone. After all, they don't get any better. I would still put Bonds and Clemens and even Sosa in the Hall. I also would have voted for Helton and Sheffield. How they can leave Helton off with his stats is a mystery to me. But I would set minimum standards for automatic entry into the Hall and dump much of the writer's voting if I were in charge. However many are held out because of their character which has increased in importance in recent years. That's why Visquel is out.

I never could understand why Hall Of Fame candidates are on the ballot for so long. If they don't make it after 3 years on the ballot, they should be gone. After all, they don't get any better. 

But didn’t it take Harmon 4 tries? 

Even more than Schilling falling short (and yes, he may have some questionable traits - not politics, but attitudes.) I get tired of the rejection of the all time HR king and one of the best RHP ever simply because they "cheated."   Get over it.  #1 - if it is that important to keep out anyone who is suspected, then why are Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza and Bagwell in?  #2 - any reasoning for keeping them out was invalidated when their enabler Bud Selig was inducted.  #3.  David Ortiz is eligible next year.  He should not be inducted either.  After all, a) he failed as many drug tests as Bonds and Clemens (all of them failed zero), he had a sudden body change and dramatically increased production (always felt he just found better substances in Boston than Minnesota) and c) he was named on the Mitchell report.  Yes, he claimed innocence and vowed to get whomever implicated him.  How's that search going?  About as well as OJ Simpson's search for the real killer of Nicole Brown.  But of course, Ortiz will be in easily - so no, this isn't about "cheating", PEDs or anything like that - it's about personalities, period.  

Agreed. My stance on PED users has changed over time. Initially I wouldn't have voted for any of them, suspected or not.  Since Bud Selig is in there now, and Piazza, and Pudge, and everybody is going to vote for Ortiz, why not put Sosa in? Sosa's PED suspicion is the exact same as Big Papi. The league wasn't enforcing it at all. There was no testing. We don't even know what Sosa tested positive for. 

As for Schilling, I hate both the press he is getting, because it's not about his accomplishments on the baseball field, and the fact that he's an obvious HOF'er and won't be voted in by the writers because they don't like him personally. I don't like him personally either, but I would vote for him because he's a huge part of baseball in the 2000's, especially the postseason. 

I never could understand why Hall Of Fame candidates are on the ballot for so long. If they don't make it after 3 years on the ballot, they should be gone. After all, they don't get any better. I would still put Bonds and Clemens and even Sosa in the Hall. I also would have voted for Helton and Sheffield. How they can leave Helton off with his stats is a mystery to me. But I would set minimum standards for automatic entry into the Hall and dump much of the writer's voting if I were in charge. However many are held out because of their character which has increased in importance in recent years. That's why Visquel is out.

If you look at when guys get in, the usual is 1st ballot, like Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Ken Griffey Jr. If you're not first ballot, then you get in the second year. Like Guerrero or Carlton Fisk. If you're not second, you get in the third year, or you have to wait until your final year of eligibility. 

I agree we could reduce the # of years guys are on the ballot, but only if you can vote for more than 10 players. Often there is a logjam and a deserving player has to wait for other more deserving players to get in until there's a lean year, then he gets in (Larry Walker). 

There was no Larry Walker on this years' ballot. 

I wouldn't have voted for Vizquel because he's a poor hitter, only has 45 WAR despite playing forever, and isn't in the same defensive realm as Ozzie Smith or Andrelton Simmons. 

For HOF voting, it is up to the hall on if off field things are something that would bar you.  If you gaged players that are in by todays standards they would not be.  Cobb for example.  Personally, I do not feel Shilling had the numbers to get in, even if you take away his after career issues.  He was very good pitcher but it is more so his post season and longevity that he is known for.  I would not be upset either way for him, but feel it is not just his political views that are keeping him out.

 

In terms of Bonds and Clemons.  I would support them being in.  They did take steroids, and by all accounts late in career, so did just about all of baseball it would seem.  The were putting of HOF numbers before their expected use.  Did it make their numbers go up even higher, most likely, but even if you take the last few years from them, you still would say they were both the best of their era, when everyone was juicing.  That is just my take.

 

In terms the FA signings.  It seems the dominos are starting to fall, which that happens every off-season.  One player/team sets the markets for positions and then players fly off the board. 

You can't actually think Schilling's numbers aren't good enough to get him in. He has 3100 something strikeouts. Every pitcher with more is in the hall, except Roger Clemens. He has 80 WAR, almost twice as much as Jack Morris. He is arguably the greatest postseason pitcher in modern baseball history. He has 3 world series rings. If he doesn't get in, he would be easily the best pitcher not named Roger Clemens to be left out of the hall of fame. 

Arguments against? Well, he never won a cy young, but he had three second place finishes and would have won two if his teammate wasn't Randy Johnson, who won two. Dozens of HOF pitchers don't have a cy young and many never finished top 2 or top 3. I suppose you could argue his ERA is relatively high. But his park adjusted ERA+ is 127, which is the same as Tom Seaver and Bob Gibson. He pitched in Fenway during the steroid era. 

He's not in because of character issues, period. 

If you look at when guys get in, the usual is 1st ballot, like Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Ken Griffey Jr. If you're not first ballot, then you get in the second year. Like Guerrero or Carlton Fisk. If you're not second, you get in the third year, or you have to wait until your final year of eligibility. 

 

I agree we could reduce the # of years guys are on the ballot, but only if you can vote for more than 10 players. Often there is a logjam and a deserving player has to wait for other more deserving players to get in until there's a lean year, then he gets in (Larry Walker). 

 

There was no Larry Walker on this years' ballot. 

 

I wouldn't have voted for Vizquel because he's a poor hitter, only has 45 WAR despite playing forever, and isn't in the same defensive realm as Ozzie Smith or Andrelton Simmons. 

Being a Twins site, think of this, for those who don't know:  Harmon Killebrew, who retired 4th on the all-time HR list and was hitting most them in an era when pitching dominated, had to wait until his 4th year of eligibility to get elected.  So yes, I understand why a player can be on the ballot longer than just that first time. 

Being a Twins site, think of this, for those who don't know:  Harmon Killebrew, who retired 4th on the all-time HR list and was hitting most them in an era when pitching dominated, had to wait until his 4th year of eligibility to get elected.  So yes, I understand why a player can be on the ballot longer than just that first time. 

Voting is and always has been weird. Killer's first year there was Bob Gibson, then in his second year, Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson. His third year had Brooks Robinson. But Killebrew was arguably the most feared hitter of his era and should have been first ballot.