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  • Miguel Sano: Can A Staggeringly Huge Monster-Man Cut It In The Outfield?


    William Parker

    Miguel Sano is listed by Baseball-Reference at 260 pounds. This LEN3 article has him at 263. If you've ever seen him up close, you know that Miguel Sano's true weight is probably something closer to thirty-seven billion pounds. It's also possible that he has no weight, but rather that the Earth's weight is measured in terms of the effect Sano's gravitational pull has on it. He's a large man, is what I'm saying. He's one scary, seriously oversized muscle with a face.

    That's an unusual enough thing for a third baseman to be, but it's all but unheard of for an outfielder, which is what the Twins keep insisting Sano is now. Outfielders are tall, but lithe, and quick -- the best ones a bit more slight, the plodders a bit bigger, but near enough to none this big.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

    Twins Video

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but seriously, he's really very large -- "just" 6'4", but almost impossibly thick for an outfielder. Click on the link above and scroll down to the photo of Sano reaching for a ball in the outfield, about halfway down. There's definitely a part of you that just says "no, nah, nope, that's not how it works" -- right? That's not an outfielder, playing the well-known baseball game position that is outfield. That's Travis Hafner or David Ortiz or Ryan Howard shagging balls in batting practice to give the guys a quick laugh.

    Now, none of that is to say he can't play out there. Sano is by all accounts an extremely athletic guy, quicker than he looks. He certainly has a strong arm, and his pro career has included 33 steals in 47 tries and about a triple for every hundred plate appearances. He certainly could be just fine out there. What I'm wondering is: has it ever happened before, with any success?

    There's no good way to figure that out, really. Weight is essentially the only proxy we have, yet it's a terrible thing to go by, for a long list of reasons. The biggest such reason is probably that players' weights can change dramatically over time, so a player's "listed weight" has very little meaning. Take, for example, four-time All-Star Carlos Lee: Baseball-Reference lists him at 270, which was no doubt accurate toward the end of the line, when Lee was almost exclusively a first baseman for the Astros. This card from his rookie season, though -- when he was roughly the same age Sano is now -- has him at 210. Lee was by no means a small man, and spent much of his career as an outfielder quite a bit above that 210, but he wasn't Sano's size.

    So acknowledging those limitations, what do we know, or what can we guess at? It turns out there have only ever been 21 seasons of 140 games or more by players who Baseball-Reference lists at 260 pounds or more and who played at least half their games in the outfield; that list is here, sorted by Baseball-Reference's fielding runs. Eleven of those 21 were by Carlos Lee, and we've established why that doesn't really work--though he had some surprisingly good years with the glove, if you feel like looking that way for hope anyway.

    Another third of those seasons, seven more of them, were by Adam Dunn, and that's not good. That's not good at all. Dunn (who, like Sano, was an athletic minor leaguer, twice stealing more than 20 bases, and even going 19-for-28 once early in his big-league career) is listed as 6'6", 285. He was listed at 240 as a rookie, too, so it's not a pure Carlos Lee ballooning scenario, even though that's still 20 pounds lighter than Sano, at a similar age--and is famously one of the worst outfielders, and one of the worst players at any position, ever to regularly put on a glove. The -43.0 fielding runs he put up in 2009 stands as the worst mark of all time by any player, ever, and his -26.0 in 2007 is the 12th worst among outfielders, and at ages 29 and 27, respectively. If we're looking for reasons for any hope for Sano the corner outfielder, we're going to have to find a better comp than Dunn.

    The only other 260-plus regular outfielder -- owner of the remaining three of those 21 seasons -- is Dmitri Young, Delmon's much older, much heavier, much better brother. Young is listed at a whopping 295, though he, too, has a pre-rookie card that lists his weight (at age 20) at 210, so it's likely that even Young wasn't quite Sano-sized when he got his start. It also strikes me as a different kind of weight--Young was doubtless an incredible athlete, but carried considerably more fat and less muscle than Sano, on a shorter frame. For what it's worth, Young had a mixed record, but was far from a total disaster in the field (until the very end, when he was pushing 300). Young was also hurt quite a bit. It's not a close comparison, and, I think, also not a desirable one, though it's better than Dunn on that front.

    We can reduce the weight minimum to 250, and get these 17 more seasons. Seven are by Matt Holliday, and I'm not sure that works--he's listed at 250 even, so 10-15 pounds lighter than Sano, and just seems like a different creature: this is a picture of him headed into his near-MVP 2007, for instance, and he looks like the kind of person Sano could swallow in one bite. At approximately Sano's age, Holliday's baseball card listed him at 235.

    Another of our new comps is born DH Jack Cust, whom the A's ran out there 83 times as a 29-year-old in 2008. Let us never speak of this again.

    Seven of the seasons were by the great Frank Howard, who certainly never won any awards for his defense, but could acquit himself well enough (and hit SO well) that he stayed more or less out there for 12 years. At the same time, though, Howard was 6'7", three inches taller than Sano's listed height; an unholy beast, to be sure, but in a different way than Sano is one. Howard was much closer to the stereotypical outfielder build, just...enlarged.

    Finally, there's Yasiel Puig, who it shocked me to learn is listed at 6'2" and 255. Puig certainly doesn't give off that same old-world-god vibe Sano does, though I've never seen them together, so who's to say? Puig's athleticism is well known, and he's put up a total of 14 fielding runs in his career, even more or less holding his own in center when necessary. If you think Puig compares to Sano, that's an awfully encouraging comparison. It sure seems to me that they're different styles of athlete with vastly different frames, but what do I know?

    So here's what's interesting and worrisome: I'm not sure the game has ever seen anything quite like the hulking superhuman monster that is Miguel Sano trying to patrol the outfield on a daily basis. There are similarities here and there with Puig, and Howard, and Dunn (gulp), and Young, but none of them quite fit, for one reason or another. Fair or not, Sano's body just screams "1B/DH," and most teams and managers just wouldn't even think (or not much) about sticking him out there. This is kind of uncharted territory.

    That said, I don't expect a disaster. Learning the position and instincts are more important than any of this, but I think he can do it. I don't know that it's a long-term solution -- he's likely to keep getting more first-baseman-like as he goes, as history has shown -- but for a year or two, it doesn't seem crazy to think it might work out just fine.

    Regardless though, no one as bulky as Sano, in the way Sano is-- and likely no one already so bulky when they were so young -- has ever attempted to play anything like a full season in the outfield. This is a whole new unknown sort of thing we're dealing with here. That's kind of fun, right?

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    All you posters worrying about running injuries make me laugh. NFL linebackers are roughly 260 pounds and run more, cut more, change speed and direction more, and move in other ways that a major league outfielder never will and aren't getting hurt every time they do so. As long as the trainers have him on a stretching program, I am not too worried about a running injury, but it might still happen. His arm strength should be above average, he played both SS and 3B after all, and this spring should get him acclimated to judging fly ball distances. Routes to the ball, backing up throws to 1B from P, C, SS, and 3B, returning the ball quickly to the infield, and throwing to the proper base/cut-off should be bigger concerns. And of these, routes to the ball should and will be the biggest problem; it takes years, not weeks, to learn this skill. Oh yeah, and that RF overhang in Target Field! ;)

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    I would rather see a platoon of Joe and Sano... 

     

    Trade...  Park

     

    and let em play... 

     

    First of all, if you trade Park, you don't have to platoon Joe and Sano. Second, we have no idea how good Park is yet. Third, platooning Sano is, objectively and beyond all doubt, the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

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    Miggy and Pujols both started at third, than moved to the outfield, but both ended up at first later in their careers.

    Both Miggy and Pujols weren't even close to Sano's weight in their 3B or OF days... Heck, Pujols isn't as big as Sano even today.... 

    The pictures don't lie.... Here's Pujols his rookie year 

    http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/G_s81JXi7Vk9z._3RH9SmQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI0MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/YahooSports/1307346769.jpg

    And Miguel Cabrera during his 3B and OF days

    http://img.fanbase.com/media.fanbase.com/8/38072/c69820af4cdf3e66e4f5018314c3edede990b71a.jpg?x=300&y=450&sig=47d2537b92d3d171ecca28f1c0d06561

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    He's got to be better than delmon Arica the hammer the killer or bombo Rivera.

    And we watched Kirby's lower body grow into triple x. He did okay. I like the Dave Parker comparison. Another pirate Willie Stargell was 34 before they made him a first baseman .. looks like Sano stays in RF unless we need DH or until plouffe starts killing it , so we can get something in return by trading him

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    Perhaps you were looking at DRS?

    No. Well, I looked at DRS too, but what happened was I forgot that Fangraphs combines UZR and their positional adjustment into the dashboard "Defense" number now. Kinda hate that (but I get it).

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    6'4",  260lb.  Just a tad undersized for an elite Tight End.  And I suspect that there are a lot of tight ends who can be great outfielders.   Or just about right for a quarterback (IIRC Daunte Culpepper was just the same size in his prime.)  He'd make a pretty good outfielder.   Or a pass rushing defensive end, Jared Allen was about that size, just a bit taller.  Speaking about JJ Watt is 290 lbs.  Wanna bet that he could be an awful outfielder, if he chose baseball?

     

    Let the kid play, see him play and then talk.  Funny enough, people wanted to crucify Plouffe because he was horrible at third in his first season.  Now they clamoring about his defense.  BTW, sub "Koskie" for "Plouffe" out there, and the same  stands.   Will Sano be a gold glove outfielder in 2016?  I don't know, but it is not likely.  Could he be in 2018? Of course.  If he wants to be.

    There is 260 lbs and there is 260 lbs.

     

     

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    No. Well, I looked at DRS too, but what happened was I forgot that Fangraphs combines UZR and their positional adjustment into the dashboard "Defense" number now. Kinda hate that (but I get it).

    I prefer DRS, myself, but to each their own.

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    If Sano is fine with moving to RF, so am I. I hope he is the type of guy that feeds off naysayers. If he is, I'll join the fun... Hey Sano, There is no way you can hit 30 bombs, drive in 100 runs, and lead this team to 90 wins while playing acceptable RF defense.

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    When Miguel was in Elizabethton in 2011, he was listed at 6'3" and 232#.   The only thing he could say in English the 1st night was, "Will I get enough to eat here?"   Not a problem!    I had a houseful that year, which also included Eddie and Kennys.    I would take 2 buggies through the grocery store every week.   

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    Seems to me sure-handedness, average mobility and a good arm describes hundreds of adequate defensive outfielders. Weight...unless or until it hinders mobility doesn't mean much. I liked the article.

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    First of all, if you trade Park, you don't have to platoon Joe and Sano. Second, we have no idea how good Park is yet. Third, platooning Sano is, objectively and beyond all doubt, the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

    I believe what homer hankey meant is that Sano and Mauer rotate between 1b and dh with both in the lineup together. As for trading Park, anyone is tradeable for the right price.
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    That is not even remotely a ray of hope.

    I'm trying to have an optimistic take here.

    Lee was merely bad in the outfield for a few years.

    I'd take that from Sano, as opposed to "disastrous" which is probably the only other possibility.

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    Carlos Lee was actually pretty good out there for the first half of his career. Which is a "ray of hope" in terms of the ability to quickly learn the position, though on the other hand his numbers start to fall off right around the time he probably gets close to Sano's size...

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    Carlos Lee was actually pretty good out there for the first half of his career. Which is a "ray of hope" in terms of the ability to quickly learn the position, though on the other hand his numbers start to fall off right around the time he probably gets close to Sano's size...

     

    Out of curiosity, by what measure do you think he was pretty good?  I can't find much of any that would even put him in the "meh" camp.

     

    We'll have to see what kind of range he can produce.  I'm not so much worried about his running ability or anything like that, but so much of playing the outfield is reading the bat off the ball, judging depth, etc.  And that's something you learn to do rather than just use athleticism to fix.

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    Anyway, it's entertaining to talk about and it may yet turn out to be a train wreck. (speaking of train wrecks, the thought of a Buxton/Sano collision should keep Molitor and Ryan up at night)

     

    I've heard this before and it's inane. Buxton and Sano could also collide if he played 3B in a shift and went out for a popup. Unless you want to move Sano to catcher, you can't avoid this. It would be ludicrous to make decisions based on worst-case scenarios.

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    Even if Sano is not good, it's not going to hurt, he's replacing another poor defender, it's not like the team is significantly downgrading the defense from something that was elite last year.

     

    And the alternative to begin the season seems to be Oswaldo Arcia, who is not exactly a defensive dynamo.

     

    The real test comes when Kepler is ready because he would be a marked improvement over Sano and Arcia. But by that point, we'll know how Park is going to fare and if Mauer is finally rebounding etc. If Kepler makes a run at the majors, the Twins may find Plouffe more expendable at the break (and they may be able to get more for him from a team that needs a 3B in the middle of the season). 

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     I know Molly said he won't play third this year, I've always assumed this is just a temporary move until third opens up one way or another.

     

    And I think this has even been taken out of context. Molly likely means that he won't be moving Sano around, that he'll play in the OF even when Plouffe gets the day off. That's probably smart when transitioning someone to a new position. But if Plouffe were traded or hit the DL for more than a few weeks, I guarantee you Sano would become your regular 3B.

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    Out of curiosity, by what measure do you think he was pretty good?  I can't find much of any that would even put him in the "meh" camp.

     

     

    By Baseball-Reference's fielding runs or by DRS/UZR when available, Lee was generally above average up through age 29 or so and generally below average at 30 and later. There are blips on either side, but that tended to be the case, anyway.

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    By Baseball-Reference's fielding runs or by DRS/UZR when available, Lee was generally above average up through age 29 or so and generally below average at 30 and later. There are blips on either side, but that tended to be the case, anyway.

     

    A lot of the other measures on fangraphs show him to be considerably below average.  And, to the best of my recollection, that matched the ol' eye test.

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    A lot of the other measures on fangraphs show him to be considerably below average.  And, to the best of my recollection, that matched the ol' eye test.

    Which other measures? Those are the only ones that really try to measure his overall contributions...

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