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  • Miguel Sano: Can A Staggeringly Huge Monster-Man Cut It In The Outfield?


    William Parker

    Miguel Sano is listed by Baseball-Reference at 260 pounds. This LEN3 article has him at 263. If you've ever seen him up close, you know that Miguel Sano's true weight is probably something closer to thirty-seven billion pounds. It's also possible that he has no weight, but rather that the Earth's weight is measured in terms of the effect Sano's gravitational pull has on it. He's a large man, is what I'm saying. He's one scary, seriously oversized muscle with a face.

    That's an unusual enough thing for a third baseman to be, but it's all but unheard of for an outfielder, which is what the Twins keep insisting Sano is now. Outfielders are tall, but lithe, and quick -- the best ones a bit more slight, the plodders a bit bigger, but near enough to none this big.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

    Twins Video

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but seriously, he's really very large -- "just" 6'4", but almost impossibly thick for an outfielder. Click on the link above and scroll down to the photo of Sano reaching for a ball in the outfield, about halfway down. There's definitely a part of you that just says "no, nah, nope, that's not how it works" -- right? That's not an outfielder, playing the well-known baseball game position that is outfield. That's Travis Hafner or David Ortiz or Ryan Howard shagging balls in batting practice to give the guys a quick laugh.

    Now, none of that is to say he can't play out there. Sano is by all accounts an extremely athletic guy, quicker than he looks. He certainly has a strong arm, and his pro career has included 33 steals in 47 tries and about a triple for every hundred plate appearances. He certainly could be just fine out there. What I'm wondering is: has it ever happened before, with any success?

    There's no good way to figure that out, really. Weight is essentially the only proxy we have, yet it's a terrible thing to go by, for a long list of reasons. The biggest such reason is probably that players' weights can change dramatically over time, so a player's "listed weight" has very little meaning. Take, for example, four-time All-Star Carlos Lee: Baseball-Reference lists him at 270, which was no doubt accurate toward the end of the line, when Lee was almost exclusively a first baseman for the Astros. This card from his rookie season, though -- when he was roughly the same age Sano is now -- has him at 210. Lee was by no means a small man, and spent much of his career as an outfielder quite a bit above that 210, but he wasn't Sano's size.

    So acknowledging those limitations, what do we know, or what can we guess at? It turns out there have only ever been 21 seasons of 140 games or more by players who Baseball-Reference lists at 260 pounds or more and who played at least half their games in the outfield; that list is here, sorted by Baseball-Reference's fielding runs. Eleven of those 21 were by Carlos Lee, and we've established why that doesn't really work--though he had some surprisingly good years with the glove, if you feel like looking that way for hope anyway.

    Another third of those seasons, seven more of them, were by Adam Dunn, and that's not good. That's not good at all. Dunn (who, like Sano, was an athletic minor leaguer, twice stealing more than 20 bases, and even going 19-for-28 once early in his big-league career) is listed as 6'6", 285. He was listed at 240 as a rookie, too, so it's not a pure Carlos Lee ballooning scenario, even though that's still 20 pounds lighter than Sano, at a similar age--and is famously one of the worst outfielders, and one of the worst players at any position, ever to regularly put on a glove. The -43.0 fielding runs he put up in 2009 stands as the worst mark of all time by any player, ever, and his -26.0 in 2007 is the 12th worst among outfielders, and at ages 29 and 27, respectively. If we're looking for reasons for any hope for Sano the corner outfielder, we're going to have to find a better comp than Dunn.

    The only other 260-plus regular outfielder -- owner of the remaining three of those 21 seasons -- is Dmitri Young, Delmon's much older, much heavier, much better brother. Young is listed at a whopping 295, though he, too, has a pre-rookie card that lists his weight (at age 20) at 210, so it's likely that even Young wasn't quite Sano-sized when he got his start. It also strikes me as a different kind of weight--Young was doubtless an incredible athlete, but carried considerably more fat and less muscle than Sano, on a shorter frame. For what it's worth, Young had a mixed record, but was far from a total disaster in the field (until the very end, when he was pushing 300). Young was also hurt quite a bit. It's not a close comparison, and, I think, also not a desirable one, though it's better than Dunn on that front.

    We can reduce the weight minimum to 250, and get these 17 more seasons. Seven are by Matt Holliday, and I'm not sure that works--he's listed at 250 even, so 10-15 pounds lighter than Sano, and just seems like a different creature: this is a picture of him headed into his near-MVP 2007, for instance, and he looks like the kind of person Sano could swallow in one bite. At approximately Sano's age, Holliday's baseball card listed him at 235.

    Another of our new comps is born DH Jack Cust, whom the A's ran out there 83 times as a 29-year-old in 2008. Let us never speak of this again.

    Seven of the seasons were by the great Frank Howard, who certainly never won any awards for his defense, but could acquit himself well enough (and hit SO well) that he stayed more or less out there for 12 years. At the same time, though, Howard was 6'7", three inches taller than Sano's listed height; an unholy beast, to be sure, but in a different way than Sano is one. Howard was much closer to the stereotypical outfielder build, just...enlarged.

    Finally, there's Yasiel Puig, who it shocked me to learn is listed at 6'2" and 255. Puig certainly doesn't give off that same old-world-god vibe Sano does, though I've never seen them together, so who's to say? Puig's athleticism is well known, and he's put up a total of 14 fielding runs in his career, even more or less holding his own in center when necessary. If you think Puig compares to Sano, that's an awfully encouraging comparison. It sure seems to me that they're different styles of athlete with vastly different frames, but what do I know?

    So here's what's interesting and worrisome: I'm not sure the game has ever seen anything quite like the hulking superhuman monster that is Miguel Sano trying to patrol the outfield on a daily basis. There are similarities here and there with Puig, and Howard, and Dunn (gulp), and Young, but none of them quite fit, for one reason or another. Fair or not, Sano's body just screams "1B/DH," and most teams and managers just wouldn't even think (or not much) about sticking him out there. This is kind of uncharted territory.

    That said, I don't expect a disaster. Learning the position and instincts are more important than any of this, but I think he can do it. I don't know that it's a long-term solution -- he's likely to keep getting more first-baseman-like as he goes, as history has shown -- but for a year or two, it doesn't seem crazy to think it might work out just fine.

    Regardless though, no one as bulky as Sano, in the way Sano is-- and likely no one already so bulky when they were so young -- has ever attempted to play anything like a full season in the outfield. This is a whole new unknown sort of thing we're dealing with here. That's kind of fun, right?

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    http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2010/11/19/9ULHEmQ8.jpg

     

    My best comparison to successful outfield with a similar sized player to Sano would be the Pittsburgh Pirates when Dave Parker was in right. Parker was listed at 6-5 230 but was perceived to be larger. (Photo above suggests the same)

     

    Parker won 3 consecutive Gold Gloves because he had a deadly howitzer arm and, with Omar Moreno covering more area than Verizon in center, didn't have to have exceptional wheels. (We also have one of those Moreno-like center fielders, come to think of it.)

     

    Sano only needs to make sound decisions and accurate throws out there. (Be sort of an anti-Oswaldo Arcia) and this could work, fine. Not the ideal asthetic, I agree, but serviceable. What you DON'T want is for your center fielder to also have to cover ground to the other side  - which he won't have to with Rosario or Kepler.

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    Another third of those seasons, seven more of them, were by Adam Dunn, and that's not good. That's not good at all. Dunn (who, like Sano, was an athletic minor leaguer, twice stealing more than 20 bases, and even going 19-for-28 once early in his big-league career) is listed as 6'6", 285. He was listed at 240 as a rookie, too, so it's not a pure Carlos Lee ballooning scenario, even though that's still 20 pounds lighter than Sano, at a similar age--and is famously one of the worst outfielders, and one of the worst players at any position, ever to regularly put on a glove. The -43.0 fielding runs he put up in 2009 stands as the worst mark of all time by any player, ever, and his -26.0 in 2007 is the 12th worst among outfielders, and at ages 29 and 27, respectively. If we're looking for reasons for any hope for Sano the corner outfielder, we're going to have to find a better comp than Dunn.

    I don't think Dunn is as bad of an example as you claim. Most of his terrible fielding numbers occurred in the back half of his 20s. Your query cut out a couple of his better seasons (2001 & 2003) and the Rfield value includes both his outfield defense AND his 1B defense (a position at which he was significantly worse on a per/game basis). Focusing just on his outfield defense, it was mostly competent up through age 25:

     

    Age | OF Games | OF Runs

    21 | 63 | +1

    22 | 118 | +1

    23 | 102 | -1

    24 | 156 | -4

    25 | 133 | -10

    26 | 156 | -17

    27 | 144 | -26

    28 | 141 | -19

    29 | 84 | -20

     

    Carlos Lee had a similar trajectory, though he didn't fall off until he got closer to 30. Given Sano's relative youth, and how other big players performed at a similar age, I'm cautiously optimistic that Sano will be competent in the outfield for the next year or two, at which point there should be openings for him in the infield.

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    It's also probably fair to say that baseball hasn't had a lot of 260+ pound outfielders because baseball hasn't had a lot of 260+ pound players.  The game and its athletes are changing dramatically.  If you watch any ESPN classic baseball game from the 80s you'll see that the players today generally dwarf those guys.  The time of the 6'2", 175 lb Jack Clark's playing corner OF and 1B is gone.  So, while Sano might be rare now, he might not be all that rare in 5 years. We'll see.

     

     

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    I think of Sano comparisons and I just come up with NFL linebackers who are big, athletic and fast.    I am guessing he is faster and maybe even much faster than Willingham, Delmon, Young, Mauer, Hunter and Arcia and probably just as fast as Escobar and Nunez.     Can he get good jumps and catch the ball once there?  I don't know.   Young, Willingham, Arcia, Nunez and Escobar didn't do such a good job of it but Santana did and I don't think Cuddyer's transition was all that bad.   Anyone that says he should have played there in the minors probably has a point but his bat was ready before his glove so its not like there was a ton of time for evaluation    It will be interesting.   I don't think he will be there in 3 years.   Maybe because of weight but likely because of opening at 1st.

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    I don't worry about Sano's size at third or in the outfield.  The point made earlier that athletes (and humans in general) are getting larger is a good one to point out.

     

    What concerns me about Sano's defense in the outfield is that he's never done it and is learning to on the fly as a major league player.  I wouldn't care if he was 5'7 and 160 pounds, that would concern me.

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    All good points (except the one that brings up Frank Howard as though I didn't devote an entire paragraph to him in the article--read the column, as Ken Rosenthal says).

     

    Markos' point is pretty close to where I was trying to go. There's no reason to think he won't be fine for the next year or two. He's just SO big, SO young--and likely to just keep getting bigger--he could quickly (within the next 2-3 years) become a Dunn-level disaster out there. I suspect there'll be a time down the road when Sano will be starting the All-Star Game at first for the ninth straight year and people will say "did you know he used to play in the OUTFIELD?" and laugh, like how Mike Morse came up as a shortstop and Miguel Cabrera played some short and second in the minors. 

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    Bill, Cuddyer bounced around the infield before being moved to right field, where he did a pretty darn good job.

     

    Perhaps the Twins have decided to avoid that mistake and make the move now?

     

    Anyway, it's entertaining to talk about and it may yet turn out to be a train wreck. (speaking of train wrecks, the thought of a Buxton/Sano collision should keep Molitor and Ryan up at night)

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    Everyone was making a huge deal about Torii Hunter manning RF this time last year. Every metric said he was among the worst, if not the worst outfielder in the game in 2014, yet he was just fine last year despite having next to no range.

     

    Jim Thome could play RF at Target Field relaxing in a lawn chair, it's the size of a Manhatten efficiency.

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    Everyone was making a huge deal about Torii Hunter manning RF this time last year. Every metric said he was among the worst, if not the worst outfielder in the game in 2014, yet he was just fine last year despite having next to no range.

    Jim Thome could play RF at Target Field relaxing in a lawn chair, it's the size of a Manhatten efficiency.

    That's a good point, too.  RF isn't that big and Buxton in center should limit it even a bit more.  He's a good athlete. Hopefully, this goes well.

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    Everyone was making a huge deal about Torii Hunter manning RF this time last year. Every metric said he was among the worst, if not the worst outfielder in the game in 2014, yet he was just fine last year despite having next to no range.

     

    Jim Thome could play RF at Target Field relaxing in a lawn chair, it's the size of a Manhatten efficiency.

     

    I don't know where you get this. The metrics show Torii as being less disastrous in 2015 than in 2014, but still really bad, between 6 and 9 runs below average depending on where you look. Cuddyer's two Target Field years as a right fielder rate on B-R as -36 runs combined, or almost four losses over those two seasons. I think that there's something behind the general thinking that having a small right field or a particularly rangy center fielder can make up for a terrible right fielder, but that the effects are a lot smaller than people assume. There are still going to be a lot of balls that only the right fielder can get to...or not get to. And having a great right fielder out there instead would just mean that between the confines and Buxton next to him, essentially nothing would fall in on that side of the field, and would free Buxton up to cover more of the left side. There's some lost value there due to overlap, but I don't think it's nearly as big as people would assume. Also, of course, half of his games will be on the road.

     

    I think he'll probably be okay, as I've said, but it's definitely not an "oh, it's just right field at TF, anybody could do it" sort of situation. If he's NOT okay, if he pulls a Hanley (speaking of small outfields) or a mid-career Dunn out there, it'll really hurt.

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    My biggest concern with Sano in the outfield isn't his defense. Don't get me wrong; that is a concern, and I think his defense is likely to cost the Twins runs. That said, my bigger concern is how the running required in playing the outfield may lead to an elevated injury risk for Sano. Certainly, it's easier today (with almost every park boasting natural grass) than it was 10-15 years ago. But I don't know we have a real sense of what that does to such a massive person's knees. I'm terrified of an ACL tear or a Griffey-esque chronic hamstring problem. 

     

    That said, if he can just stick it out for two or three seasons, the Twins will be able to shift him to 1B by the time he's a disaster out there, as Bill notes.

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    I don't know where you get this. The metrics show Torii as being less disastrous in 2015 than in 2014, but still really bad, between 6 and 9 runs below average depending on where you look. Cuddyer's two Target Field years as a right fielder rate on B-R as -36 runs combined, or almost four losses over those two seasons. I think that there's something behind the general thinking that having a small right field or a particularly rangy center fielder can make up for a terrible right fielder, but that the effects are a lot smaller than people assume. There are still going to be a lot of balls that only the right fielder can get to...or not get to. And having a great right fielder out there instead would just mean that between the confines and Buxton next to him, essentially nothing would fall in on that side of the field, and would free Buxton up to cover more of the left side. There's some lost value there due to overlap, but I don't think it's nearly as big as people would assume. Also, of course, half of his games will be on the road.

     

    I think he'll probably be okay, as I've said, but it's definitely not an "oh, it's just right field at TF, anybody could do it" sort of situation. If he's NOT okay, if he pulls a Hanley (speaking of small outfields) or a mid-career Dunn out there, it'll really hurt.

    Hunter had a positive UZR and positive UZR/150. Every stat showed a huge improvement over 2014. The guy was 39, he didn't magically get more athletic, it was due to the environment.

     

    Even if Sano is not good, it's not going to hurt, he's replacing another poor defender, it's not like the team is significantly downgrading the defense from something that was elite last year.

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    Hunter had a positive UZR and positive UZR/150. Every stat showed a huge improvement over 2014. The guy was 39, he didn't magically get more athletic, it was due to the environment.

    Even if Sano is not good, it's not going to hurt, he's replacing another poor defender, it's not like the team is significantly downgrading the defense from something that was elite last year.

    You're right, sorry, I looked at the wrong line on Fangraphs. They had him almost exactly average. 

     

    The second bit just doesn't follow at all, though. Sano could be a lot worse than not good, and it could hurt a lot. Runs, saved or created, are runs--there's nothing in baseball that comports with that sort of "oh, it wasn't great last year so it won't matter this year" mindset.

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    Jim Thome could play RF at Target Field relaxing in a lawn chair, it's the size of a Manhatten efficiency.

    RF in Target Field is small, but it's not that small.  RF is the 10th smallest in MLB at 26600 sqft. (smallest Yanks at 24200 sqft and Royals 30500 sqft).  I was out on the backfields again and it's pretty evident to anyone there that Sano still has PLENTY of fundamentals that he has to get down in the outfield and the clock is ticking with only a month left before the regular season...

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    Hunter had a positive UZR and positive UZR/150. Every stat showed a huge improvement over 2014. The guy was 39, he didn't magically get more athletic, it was due to the environment.

    Even if Sano is not good, it's not going to hurt, he's replacing another poor defender, it's not like the team is significantly downgrading the defense from something that was elite last year.

    This is what was said of Schwarber, and it was mostly true, until the NLCS when every tough ball found him. Not that the Twins will make the NLCS this year, but I really dislike the idea of knowing that misplays by Sano in the outfield might cost us wins this year--not that saber metric, analytical, abstract type of win, but actual game wins.

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    My biggest concern with Sano in the outfield isn't his defense. Don't get me wrong; that is a concern, and I think his defense is likely to cost the Twins runs. That said, my bigger concern is how the running required in playing the outfield may lead to an elevated injury risk for Sano. Certainly, it's easier today (with almost every park boasting natural grass) than it was 10-15 years ago. But I don't know we have a real sense of what that does to such a massive person's knees. I'm terrified of an ACL tear or a Griffey-esque chronic hamstring problem. 

     

    That said, if he can just stick it out for two or three seasons, the Twins will be able to shift him to 1B by the time he's a disaster out there, as Bill notes.

    In this concern, you are echoing Paul Molitor himself!

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    This is what was said of Schwarber, and it was mostly true, until the NLCS when every tough ball found him. Not that the Twins will make the NLCS this year, but I really dislike the idea of knowing that misplays by Sano in the outfield might cost us wins this year--not that saber metric, analytical, abstract type of win, but actual game wins.

    As a Cubs fan THIS is very true, regular season he had some "learning moments" but that was to be expected as Schwarber had only played 36G/300IP in LF in the minors before getting called up.  In the postseason where every pitch counts and every ball put in play is huge, Schwarber was a liability at times.  Like Sano, Schwarber can hit the ball very hard and you need/want that bat in the lineup daily but it's going to cost you defensively.  

     

    Heard a sabr analyst say over the weekend ( and rehashed by Olney) that each run scored/given up is the equivalent of $200k.  

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    An outfielder I always think of and a best cases scenario for Sano is Willy Mo Pena. Big dude was pretty athletic early in his career, even played some CF I think. Now he never hit well enough but was a big dude and was athletic. Not sure what he was listed at weight wise.

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    An outfielder I always think of and a best cases scenario for Sano is Willy Mo Pena. Big dude was pretty athletic early in his career, even played some CF I think. Now he never hit well enough but was a big dude and was athletic. Not sure what he was listed at weight wise.

    Interesting. Pena is also listed at 6'3", 260 on B-Ref, though AGAIN a rookie card image I found online has him at 215 as a much younger guy. That's the thing sort of lurking in the back of all this--I can't find anybody who weighed this much as Sano's listed weight at Sano's age. Even moving away from the outfield: their early baseball cards listed Mo Vaughn at 225, Prince Fielder at 240, Billy Butler at 225....something to keep an eye on.

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    It is really surprising to see people here completely discount the impact of defense on successful teams.

     

    All of the people suggested in this thread including Dave Parker, Puig, Pena, and Carlos Lee were all smaller than Sano some by a lot but more importantly all had experience playing the outfield prior to doing it in the majors. Sano is trying to do this for the first time at the major league level.

     

    People should also remember that the closest comp to Sano size wise (Carlos Lee) was an absolute DISASTER defensively by any metric but even he had experience playing the position prior to playing it in the majors.

     

    All the other justifications like RF in Target Field is small, someone else in CF can cover more ground, or my favorite "he's pretty athletic" are really nothing more than hope.

     

    Successful GMs don't construct rosters for successful teams banking on hope. This move of Sano to the outfield is going to be most likely a complete disaster and at best a really bad idea that will negatively impact the team's defense. A very predictable result given any reasonable analysis of it.

     

    The bigger question is going to be what Ryan and the Twins are going to do once it becomes obvious this was a really bad decision and you can't ignore the dumpster fire anymore?  

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    "I think he'll probably be okay, as I've said, but it's definitely not an "oh, it's just right field at TF, anybody could do it" sort of situation. If he's NOT okay, if he pulls a Hanley (speaking of small outfields) or a mid-career Dunn out there, it'll really hurt."

     

     

    If he pulls a Hanley, I hope it is unrelated to his calf muscle.........

     

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    There's a good article on the Strib about Hunter working with Sano: http://www.startribune.com/hunter-already-impressed-with-sano-s-talent-and-attitude-in-outfield/370435551/

     

    Sano seems to be an intelligent player with a good work ethic to be able to pull this off.  He WILL make mistakes in the outfield as he learns his new position, hopefully they won't cost games, but how he adjusts and learns from his mistakes will determine how good he can be out there.  I really don't think there is any player to really compare him to, he's such a different beast of a player, who knows he could end up being the fastest 260 pounder we've ever seen.  As he plays the outfield more I'm guessing he'll shed a few pounds also.  One thing that does concern me is the possibility of a hamstring flaring up, if he does start dealing with leg injuries that could end up spelling disaster for Sano and the Twins this year.

     

    I get the sense that people think this is a semi-permanent move to the outfield until 1B opens up.  Has there been any reports out there saying that he'll never go back to third?  I know Molly said he won't play third this year, I've always assumed this is just a temporary move until third opens up one way or another.

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