Michael Pineda Suspended 60 Games For Banned Substance

Reading through this thread I'm surprised by the number of people that are mad at Pineda. I would not be surprised if over 50% of MLB players are using PEDs and trying to mask them. As Twins fans we benefitted from the bounce back season big Mike had. He was becoming one of my favorite players and I would still be happy if the Twins tried to resign him.

He may have made a compelling case but it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to cover some other substance. 

I mad at the guy for making such a stupid mistake when we needed him the most. I think a lot of us share that sentiment.

That is a whopping level of skepticism in an era of random unannounced testing throughout the season. I doubt it's 0%, and have my suspicions about a few players, but not at that kind of level.

 

It's been mentioned already, but you really should take a glance through the official document the league uses for defining it's processes. Section 2 ("PROHIBITED SUBSTANCES") lists everything they test for - PEDs and stimulants and masking agents alike. It seems pretty thorough, and if it were just a charade, you probably wouldn't see a suspension like this one at this time in a season.

 

http://www.mlbplayers.com/pdf9/5450924.pdf

Yeah, this to a point. They take it seriously and the testing works. That said, with this much money on the line and the relatively easy barrier of chemistry knowledge needed to create new substances, its hard not to think that there may be drugs that baseball is not even aware of that are being abused.

That's why I think the biggest thing that MLB has accomplished is making it something that isn't as open. In the 90s, players knew and it fostered everyone doing it. Bonds has always gotten a bum rap - he watched inferior players use PEDs and get glory so he did it himself. I think in today's game you have a general feeling amongst players that they don't have to use to compete. I'm not sure anyone would turn in a teammate, which would be telling.

Very often legal agreements include terms to keep parts of the agreement confidential. This is not something like government in which the public is entitled to certain information. While professional sports are very much in the public eye they are still private businesses and as such players and management are not legally required to release any information not specified in the CAB.

The Twins (and pretty much every pro sports franchise) play in taxpayer funded stadiums.

If what has been reported is true, it sounds as if the Twins knew nothing until after Pineda pitched Friday. I have a big problem with that. IMO the Twins have every right to know that one of their players failed a drug test and is facing suspension. The team needs that time to prepare. I’m pretty sure teams are capable of keeping the info private until MLB is ready to announce.

So, I think the CBA needs to be changed to give teams notice and if that information is leaked, a hefty fine should be imposed on the team (presumably no one from the player’s camp would leak it). Hefty, as in 7 figures.

Yet the arbitrator found that Pineda made a compelling case that he was not using the diuretic to mask PED use.

 

Also, you are assuming that Pineda sought out the drug, but for all we know it was offered to him as something harmless to quickly lose some weight. And for all we know, the Twins were telling him what he needed to do to lose weight, but he stupidly took a shortcut that he thought was harmless, because he was not taking PEDs.

 

We are missing many pieces of the puzzle. Presumably, the arbitrator had access to some of those pieces. I am not saying that Pineda was not masking PEDs, but I do believe that there is strong reason to believe that this was a product of stupidity, not cheating.

 

 

 

Actually, a diuretic could be included in some pills that promise you to lose weight fast, and it works because you lose water. It is the worst way to lose weight, because you get dehydrated, but works in the short term (Example: a fighter trying to give the right weight before a fight.

Actually, a diuretic could be included in some pills that promise you to lose weight fast, and it works because you lose water. It is the worst way to lose weight, because you get dehydrated, but works in the short term (Example: a fighter trying to give the right weight before a fight.

It's not productive for a MLB player to do this at this point in the season.  What's the end game? lose 3 or 4 or 10 pounds of water weight TEMPORARILY by dehydrating yourself with a diuretic just to march out to the mound in mid 90's Weather depending on where your location and feel like total crap?  comeonnnn. Does anybody really buy that?  

The only reason to do this is to cover up something else your taking. Anyone that has sweated out before an anticipated drug test for a job knows what i'm talking about. There are literally hundreds of websites claiming to sell remedies that will cleanse your system in such a fashion.

Yet the arbitrator found that Pineda made a compelling case that he was not using the diuretic to mask PED use.

 

Also, you are assuming that Pineda sought out the drug, but for all we know it was offered to him as something harmless to quickly lose some weight. And for all we know, the Twins were telling him what he needed to do to lose weight, but he stupidly took a shortcut that he thought was harmless, because he was not taking PEDs.

 

We are missing many pieces of the puzzle. Presumably, the arbitrator had access to some of those pieces. I am not saying that Pineda was not masking PEDs, but I do believe that there is strong reason to believe that this was a product of stupidity, not cheating.

I can't imagine you believe that Pineda was trying to reduce his body weight per team instruction and a friend just so happened to have prescription diuretics on hand. You aren't running across this drug, or any analogues, unless you're looking for them. Whether he specifically sought out hydrochlorothiazide or would've taken any diuretic isn't particularly important, he made a conscious effort to obtain and ingest the drug. He purposefully forfeited the opportunity to utilize world class training facilities and medical attention in favor of taking pills a supposed associated handed him.  

You're right, we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle, but based on what Pineda said, and what's known about the drug he tested positive for, I think there's enough to get a sense of what was going on. 

I mostly agree with you but, going back and reading LA Vikes and Glunn affirms this for me.

Pineda’s intent isn’t clear, reading several times previously including Glunn’s shared article https://www.goodrx.com/blog/common-prescription-medications-found-in-dietary-supplements/ that supplements are notoriously not very well regulated. My previous job was in food distribution and we never ever handled supplements to avoid risk to our certifications.

As I said above, it’s not clear what Pineda’s intent was on taking some particular substance. There’s been speculation that he took diet pills to lose weight, but we don’t know that.

He may have thought he was taking a daily multivitamin for all we know. What we do know is he made a case for his intent in taking that substance that contained a banned diuretic that it was not to hide PEDs.

Make no mistake, I’m mad at him for taking that substance. I’m not ready to label him a PED user because he made the case of intent with the Arbitrator.

The fact that supplements aren't well regulated isn't news to me, but falling back on the "I took a supplement and didn't know it contained X," is equivalent to "I didn't hit send on that tweet, my account was hacked." If we agree that hydrochlorothiazide doesn't just appear in his system unless he's seeking out a diuretic, and we agree that he made the conscious decision not to go through the team, does his intent really matter? Like I said, he's been pitching professionally in the US since he was 18; he's 30 now. He absolutely knows the protocol. I'll do him the favor of assuming he was intelligent enough to understand what he was doing, and unlucky enough to get caught. 

Personally I think he was trying to mask something. As I said before, the timing, his story, and the drug all cast doubt on it being an innocent mistake.The real issue is that Pineda knowingly ingested a substance without team approval. IMO the level of anger shouldn't change based on whether you believe it was to mask PEDs or simply an extreme lapse in judgment. 

He's banned because he intentionally took a banned substance, banned because it's a known masking agent.

No, he's banned because he took a banned substance. I don't think anyone has stated that he knew he was taking hydrochlorothiazide or that he intentionally took any substance that he knew was banned.

Is whether Pineda took PEDs relevant to the discussion about resigning him? Maybe it matters for that discussion.

It's not productive for a MLB player to do this at this point in the season.  What's the end game? lose 3 or 4 or 10 pounds of water weight TEMPORARILY by dehydrating yourself with a diuretic just to march out to the mound in mid 90's Weather depending on where your location and feel like total crap?  comeonnnn. Does anybody really buy that?  

 

The only reason to do this is to cover up something else your taking. Anyone that has sweated out before an anticipated drug test for a job knows what i'm talking about. There are literally hundreds of websites claiming to sell remedies that will cleanse your system in such a fashion.

It would not be unusual for a diet-type pill to include a diuretic along with other substances that tackle the issue on another front (e.g. suppressing appetite). If Pineda was hydrating normally, he likely wouldn't be marching out to the mound and feeling like crap.

That would also make some sense with Pineda's claim he had no idea. The diuretic may be a small aspect of the overall pill, which he had a clear reason to take. We obviously can't know that for sure but I think that there is certainly enough doubt to say "He was stupid" instead of "He was cheating."

I also think that you're being a bit presumptuous in saying the only reason is to cover something up. Pineda is a big guy and its not all muscle. I don't think we should assume that there aren't some powerful reasons for him to be looking to lose weight (health, looks, etc.) These guys aren't robots, they're humans and they have lots of complex desires and needs.

He's banned because he intentionally took a banned substance, banned because it's a known masking agent.

Um no. It seems like a strong probability that Pineda convinced the arbitrator (for the first time in PED history) that he was not aware that it contained a banned substance. So he's banned because he took a banned substance but there's no way to say that he did it intentionally and some pretty direct proof he didn't.

That said, someone above indicated that maybe the reason it dropped 20 was a technical issue - something along the line of what that lying cheat Ryan Braun claimed about the test being faulty (and Braun will always be the worst of the PED cheats in my mind, he tried to take down an innocent guy who had no power). I have to think that if that was the case, Pineda would've fought it a bit more (because really, 60 vs 80 is relatively irrelevant for him) but it remains a possibility that there was some irregularity that explains the drop. So not cut and dry that it wasn't intentional because we don't have the decision but impossible to say that he took it intentionally - all of the evidence points towards this being stupid but accidental.

Which does the Twins nothing but makes it easier to root for Pineda and contemplate bringing him back, especially if he feels he owes the team something.

I'm asking why it matters if he was also taking PEDs. He took a banned substance. He didn't work with the team, which is super easy to do. People defending him are hoping, not really thinking about the fact he didn't work with team doctors, paid to work with him....

Two factors:

1.) If he took PEDs, his performance this year would be suspect. It would be harder to consider signing him in the offseason because you'd know that you weren't going to get ace-lite pitcher Michael Pineda unless he juiced again, in which case you can't depend on him.

2.) The moral aspect exists. There's nothing morally wrong with taking a diuretic - except that so many guys use it to mask PEDs. It's more structurally wrong than morally wrong. Yeah we ban it but if someone was taking it without masking PEDs, that's a lot easier to stomach. It's like if you caught me buying weed but they were for my Grandpa who has bone cancer and the pain meds aren't working vs. you caught me buying weed to resell at the local high school. It's illegal but the moral imperative behind the law is to stop trafficking, not to stop someone using it for an end-of-life situation. I think most people would forgive me in the first case and let me babysit their children and in the second, might meet me at the door with a shotgun.