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  • Lance Lynn to the Twins?


    Andrew Thares

    After coming up short in their quest to sign Yu Darvish, the Twins were forced to turn their focus toward other pitchers on the free agent and trade markets in order to fill out their rotation. They have since added two starting pitchers, by taking a flyer on Anibal Sanchez, and making a trade with the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi.

    Theses moves added just under $9M to the Twins 2018 payroll, bringing the total to roughly $118M. However, it is reasonable to assume that if the Twins were willing to offer Yu Darvish a $20M+ per year deal, they might have more money available to make another addition to the rotation.

    Image courtesy of David Kohl-USA TODAY Sports

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    If the Twins were to make another move, many would assume it would be one of Jake Arrieta, Alex Cobb or Lance Lynn. According to a source close to Jon Heyman, he believes that Lance Lynn is a “pitcher of interest” for the Twins, and that he is favored by the Twins among the top three.

    The addition of Lance Lynn could be the move that takes the Twins rotation from one filled with question marks, to one with solidified depth. Right now, the Twins rotation to start the season would be Jose Berrios, Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Gibson, Alberto Mejia, and one of Phil Hughes, Tyler Duffey or Anibal Sanchez.

    Adding Lynn would give the Twins five starters that they can trust in their rotation until Ervin Santana returns, and provide added depth if one of the other starters goes down with an injury during the season.

    Lance Lynn had a strong performance in 2017, posting a 3.43 ERA (4.75 xFIP) over 186.1 innings, after coming back from Tommy John surgery. However, the inflated xFIP, along with a career low .244 BABIP last season cause some hesitation in thinking that Lynn will be able to replicate those numbers again in 2018.

    Another area of concern for Lance Lynn is his fastball velocity. Lynn is a pitcher who relies heavily on his four-seam, two-seam and cut fastballs, and last year he saw his average fastball velocity drop from the 92.4 MPH it was at in 2015, before his Tommy John surgery, down to 91.3 MPH. A 1.1 MPH drop may not sound like a lot, but when a pitcher is already throwing in the low 90’s every MPH is critical, and if that number were to drop any lower it could be detrimental for Lynn.

    There is one bright spot for Lynn coming off of 2017, and that was his 0.304 xwOBA. This ranked 45th amongst the 118 pitchers who threw at least 2,000 pitches last season. This suggests that Lynn was a slightly above average starting pitcher last season, and backs up his 3.43 ERA a lot better than his other peripheral metrics do.

    So, if the Twins really do have aspirations of signing Lance Lynn, what would it take to get him? At the beginning of the offseason MLB Trade Rumors predicted that Lance Lynn would receive an offer of 4-years and $56M. Given the way the market has panned out this winter, it might be easy to assume that Lynn would receive an offer south of that mark. However, unlike Darvish, I don’t think there will be too big of a drop from this price, if there is one at all. A big reason for this being that earlier in the offseason Tyler Chatwood signed a 3-year $38M deal with the Cubs.

    Given that Chatwood was considered to be a step down from Lynn entering this offseason, it would be hard to believe that Lynn would accept a deal that is equal to or less than that of Chatwood’s. If this is the case, it doesn’t leave the Twins a lot of wiggle room with either years or dollars for them to come down from the 4-years and $56M projection.

    Additionally, Lance Lynn received a qualifying offer from the Cardinals. If the Twins were to sign Lynn they would have to give up their third highest pick in the 2018 First Year Player Draft (75th overall). Though, unlike previous years under the old CBA, the Twins would have had to give up their top unprotected pick (20th overall). So, by comparison, giving up the 75th pick in the draft for an established major league pitcher isn’t a terrible trade-off, but it is still a factor that the Twins front office will need to take into consideration before making an offer for Lynn.

    Personally, I would like to see the Twins add another piece to their rotation, but the addition of Lance Lynn, or Cobb and Arrieta for that matter, seems a bit risky to me. If they are able to swoop in and get Lynn at an absolute bargain, I think they should make the move, otherwise they might be better off staying put, and look to invest more money into free agency next offseason.

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    I read that too, claims he had 2 surgeries last year, feeling great, and been working on a slider this past off season. Thinks he's got it down. So the question is where's his velo? My guess is to the Twins Brass, is if he can get it up to 85 to 90, throw in his off speed, he's our man. After all, they owe him $25M over next 2 years. (What in the world was Ryan smoking when he extended Hughes). Its the Twins Way to get their money's worth out of Hughes. So, if Hughes arm is still attached when camp ends, it wouldn't surprise me, he's the 4th starter until Santana's back, then pushed back to 5th starter. If not, he'll be back n the pen.

    Both of Hughes' off speed pitches are emphatically his worst. He only picked up his change again last year after shelving it for half a decade to try to work in more off speed stuff. If he doesn't get his velocity back he's cooked, which is too bad.

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    Couldn't find (ok, maybe I didn't look very hard (or at all)...someone will have to explain to me how to actually find what your searching for on TD as my experience is that it's great for catching up on 5 year old posts) what was I going to post....yes...

     

    Couldn't find the Predict a Twins Starting Pitcher Signing topic so I'll post this here instead...

     

    The next big Twins SP signing will be June 4th immediately following the start of the Rule 27 draft (or whatever arcane name/number there is for the Amateur Draft) and the pitcher will be whoever is still not signed by then, contract will be 1 year (actually the rest of the season) for a pro-rated portion of $15M

     

    Call it the TR Morales Maneuver

     

    This will be followed by a Falvine Flip on July 30th sending the TR Morales Maneuver player to the Yankme's for RHP's Ben Heller and Giovanny Gallegos both of who were 15-0 for Tampa Tarpons (don't get those 3rd consonants mixed up) and Trenton Thunder

     

    The boys will use the Falvine Flip along with a mysterious "We Take Care of Our Own" message on the clubhouse whiteboard to rally and secure the 2nd Wild Card...you know the rest

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    I read that too, claims he had 2 surgeries last year, feeling great, and been working on a slider this past off season. Thinks he's got it down. So the question is where's his velo? My guess is to the Twins Brass, is if he can get it up to 85 to 90, throw in his off speed, he's our man. After all, they owe him $25M over next 2 years. (What in the world was Ryan smoking when he extended Hughes). Its the Twins Way to get their money's worth out of Hughes. So, if Hughes arm is still attached when camp ends, it wouldn't surprise me, he's the 4th starter until Santana's back, then pushed back to 5th starter. If not, he'll be back n the pen.

    I think it is Mr. Hughes wanting to give the Twins something in return for the checks he has been cashing.  Remember, he is the guy who turned down the opportunity to come in for a inning or two of relief the last weekend of the season which would have earned him a nice incentive.  Based on that event, the guy has character which will drive him to perform for his employer.

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    Steamer projects Odorizzi at exactly 1 WAR.

    Either way, you say they'd be 15th, my immediate guess was about 19th.
    Not far enough off for me to get worked up about.
    Still not very good, IMO. But, an improvement.

    Steamer has him performing worse than any other prediction model.   Use the worse value, it justifies your opinion.

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    If Gibson has indeed turned some type of corner, and we get second-half 2017 Gibson out of the 4-5 hole, it's better than "barely too 20."

     

    We know what Santana can give. Last won't happen again, but he'll pitch deep into games and give you an ERA around 4. Solid mid rotation guy.

     

    Lynn would likely be very similar to Santana. Again, solid mid-rotation guy.

     

    Berrios is the key. He's the real "ace," going forward IMO. I think he establishes himself as one of the best young starters in the game this year. He's a legit front-end guy with strikeout stuff.

     

    Odorizzi should be fairly solid. High-floor there, but also some ceiling left, IMO.

     

    Add those guys to a Gibson pitching like he did in the second-half last year, and that's potentially a very nice rotation.

    if and that’s a big if, everything works out right, that’s a middle of the pack rotation
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    Twins rotation was 19th in ERA last year, 23rd in FIP, 24th in innings pitched. And keep in mind, whatever we might gain from Lynn, Odorizzi, etc. could be partially offset by a loss from Ervin, both through missed time and likely regression.

     

    Good point on possible Erv regression.  Even when he comes back "healthy", do we really know whether his finger will allow him to bust the slider like before? Plus, he's not getting any younger.

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    Do teams usually make drastic leaps by adding one replacement level starter, and one 1.5 win starter?

    They do when you take negative war guys out of the rotation. You are assuming everyone they ran out there last year was at a 0 war then no, not a lot of improvement. But when you are replacing negative war guys then it is a little better than it looks on paper.

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    Twins rotation was 19th in ERA last year, 23rd in FIP, 24th in innings pitched. And keep in mind, whatever we might gain from Lynn, Odorizzi, etc. could be partially offset by a loss from Ervin, both through missed time and likely regression.

    What you hope to lose are the 37 games pitched by pitchers with an ERA over 5.4. Lynn has been  Pushing Mejia back to spot starter/ injury fill in pitcher would go a long way in cleaning up that mess.

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    What you hope to lose are the 37 games pitched by pitchers with an ERA over 5.4. Lynn has been  Pushing Mejia back to spot starter/ injury fill in pitcher would go a long way in cleaning up that mess.

    Hope, but it's not always so easy. That rotation would have a number of veterans whose leash would be fairly long, not unlike the 5.4+ ERA guys of years past.  They're not getting bounced for a couple bad starts, or maybe not even a bad month or two. Plus, they will have to make up for Ervin's missed time and possible regression.

     

    I would expect some improvement overall, but given the pitchers we have added, probably modest (even with Lynn). Maybe instead of 19-24 range for ERA/FIP/innings, they could be 15-20 range.

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    Do teams usually make drastic leaps by adding one replacement level starter, and one 1.5 win starter?

    You also have to take into account all of the negative WAR they are replacing. I dont know how much that is but league average pitching over what we got from starters 8-16 last year brings us up alot. Getting Lynn probably makes us a top 10-12 out of 30.

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    Hope, but it's not always so easy. That rotation would have a number of veterans whose leash would be fairly long, not unlike the 5.4+ ERA guys of years past.  They're not getting bounced for a couple bad starts, or maybe not even a bad month or two. Plus, they will have to make up for Ervin's missed time and possible regression.

     

    I would expect some improvement overall, but given the pitchers we have added, probably modest (even with Lynn). Maybe instead of 19-24 range for ERA/FIP/innings, they could be 15-20 range.

    Yeah, I don't see them cracking the top half of baseball unless two things happen:

     

    1. Berrios improves significantly. I think the chances of this happening are actually pretty reasonable.

     

    2. One of the castoffs or prospects comes out of nowhere and posts an ERA under 4.00 for the season. It could be Gibson, Sanchez, Hughes (lol), or Gonsalves. I think the chances of this are pretty low and I'd be happy with a 4.50 ERA from any of those guys and thrilled with anything that approaches 4.00.

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    Yeah, I don't see them cracking the top half of baseball unless two things happen:

     

    1. Berrios improves significantly. I think the chances of this happening are actually pretty reasonable.

     

    2. One of the castoffs or prospects comes out of nowhere and posts an ERA under 4.00 for the season. It could be Gibson, Sanchez, Hughes (lol), or Gonsalves. I think the chances of this are pretty low and I'd be happy with a 4.50 ERA from any of those guys and thrilled with anything that approaches 4.00.

     

    I agree. One of the castoffs has to be pretty dang good though. I'm not thinking 3-4ish, more like 2-3ish. It'd have to be peak Sanchez or Hughes or Gibson hitting his long lost potential.

     

    I would be putting my money on Trevor May to most likely be the guy if he wasn't starting off the year in his current condition and likely way behind these guys in pecking order.

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    Not worth its own thread, but Wetmore just tweeted that he has a secret surprise guest in the podcast tomorrow to talk Rays and Twins, Odorizzi, and Morrison, and more.

     

    There’s no way in heck he had an early scoop on a Cobb signing is there???

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    Not worth its own thread, but Wetmore just tweeted that he has a secret surprise guest in the podcast tomorrow to talk Rays and Twins, Odorizzi, and Morrison, and more.

    There’s no way in heck he had an early scoop on a Cobb signing is there???

    Archer and Colome probably.

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    Apologies if I missed this reported around here:

     

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/03/placing-the-remaining-top-50-free-agents.html

     

    Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN reported in his most recent podcast that the Twins threw out a low-ball offer of about $12MM total over two years. Unsurprisingly, Lynn’s agents at Excel quickly shot that down, but it’ not a great sign when that’s the type of interest he’s fielding in early March.

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    Hughes' fastball in his first outing was at 91 MPH. If he sustains that, he may be starter #5.

    My prediction when Anibal was signed that Hughes and Sanchez were competing for one spot in the rotation.

     

    Odorizzi
    Berrios
    Gibson

    Hughes/Sanchez
    Mejia - he could get bumped to AAA if both of Sanchez/Hughes look remotely decent this spring

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    My prediction when Anibal was signed that Hughes and Sanchez were competing for one spot in the rotation.

     

    Odorizzi
    Berrios
    Gibson

    Hughes/Sanchez
    Mejia - he could get bumped to AAA if both of Sanchez/Hughes look remotely decent this spring

    I   think your hunch could be correct. It's early days yet, but if Gibson and Sanchez both look healthy and posting respectable numbers, I could see them both in the rotation to start the season. And for me, Gibson is the biggest shocker. I didn't think he had a chance after his multi-setbacks the past few years, but I hope he proves me wrong.

    Edited by Doctor Wu
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    I   think your hunch could be correct. It's early days yet, but if Gibson and Sanchez both look healthy and posting respectable numbers, I could see them both in the rotation to start the season. And for me, Gibson is the biggest shocker. I didn't think he had a chance after his multi-setbacks the past few years, but I hope he proves me wrong.

    Given how Gibson made an actual, trackable change in his approach late last season, I think he's almost a given for the rotation. More than Sanchez, anyway.

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    Given how Gibson made an actual, trackable change in his approach late last season, I think he's almost a given for the rotation. More than Sanchez, anyway.

    I consider Gibson almost a no doubter. Sanchez has the smell of that seasoned vet that is given too many chances for seemingly no reason at all.

    However I think there is a (small) chance that Sanchez surprises us. The upside is more of the Colon level of surprise of 'this guy isn't actually terrible' though.

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    I consider Gibson almost a no doubter. Sanchez has the smell of that seasoned vet that is given too many chances for seemingly no reason at all.

    However I think there is a (small) chance that Sanchez surprises us. The upside is more of the Colon level of surprise of 'this guy isn't actually terrible' though.

    I honestly have no idea what to think of Sanchez. He has lost a bit of velo but nothing to the degree of, say, Hughes (~2mph for Sanchez, more like 3-4mph for Hughes).

     

    He's only 34 years old, which isn't ancient. Unlike Hughes, if he is able to gain back even 1mph of velocity, he has the ability to rebound pretty significantly.

     

    But I have no idea what caused the loss of velocity and whether it's anything that can ever rebound.

     

    I'm interested in seeing what happens, but not particularly bullish on anything good coming from the signing.

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